1 Million mile EV battery

Ravi Kempaiah

Well-Known Member
Last month we were fortunate enough to sit with Prof. Jeff Dahn and see some of the latest results (in conjunction with Tesla) from their lab. He showed us some results of the latest generation Li-ion cells that last 6000+ cycles even at 105'F temperature.

The scientific paper was published yesterday after the approval of Tesla R+D team and it is making news already. You may want to read the article linked here. This is absolutely incredible.
Tesla will be making use of this technology in their Mega Packs and possibly in the upcoming vehicles.


What is new is the "single crystal" NMC532 chemistry and advanced electrolyte systems. It could 6000+ cycles at full 100% depth of discharge. If you limit the charging to 90% and temperatures lower than 105'F, it could last much more. So, 1 million miles or 15 years of service is totally possible.

On an E-bike, let's say you build a 800 Whr pack (This NMC532 chemistry has 15% less energy density compared to NCA), and if you do even very minimal maintenance, it should last 4000 cycles ( or 10+ years).
How cool is that!!!


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Prof. Dahn_NMC532.JPG
 

Ebiker01

Active Member
But will they allow this particular cell chemistry to be used for ebikes ? Either if they sell the cells or patent them and let others make them.

Obviously with the Model 3 ( and the upcoming Model Y) obliterating all cars worldwide in sales numbers there will be a huge demand for this cells.
Ebike manufactures tend to like the battery packs to have a certain expiration date and Tesla shares their patents, makes Sci fi advances in their cell chemistry.
Hopefully they will make their own ebike. The Tesla Ebike. That would be cool.
 

Mike's E-Bikes

Well-Known Member
But will they allow this particular cell chemistry to be used for ebikes ? Either if they sell the cells or patent them and let others make them.

Obviously with the Model 3 ( and the upcoming Model Y) obliterating all cars worldwide in sales numbers there will be a huge demand for this cells.
Ebike manufactures tend to like the battery packs to have a certain expiration date and Tesla shares their patents, makes Sci fi advances in their cell chemistry.
Hopefully they will make their own ebike. The Tesla Ebike. That would be cool.
If they do, it won't be cheap. They'd likely price it at least 4 to 5 times more than today's 800 to 1000 cycle battery. It'd be valuable for UPS delivery ebikes or similar. Its more interesting from an environmental impact, and reducing the mountains of battery waste materials. Other technology improvements on ebikes will more likely lead to people upgrading sooner than the life cycle of such a battery were it to ever make it into the ebike realm. I wouldn't hold my breath though waiting for it.
 

Slowpoke

Member
Good info Ravi.I watched your videos on your world record break that also showed the long segment with Prof Jeff Dawn.You ready to do a million miles on the Commuter Pro.LoL
 

FlatSix911

Active Member
Last month we were fortunate enough to sit with Prof. Jeff Dahn and see some of the latest results (in conjunction with Tesla) from their lab. He showed us some results of the latest generation Li-ion cells that last 6000+ cycles even at 105'F temperature.

The scientific paper was published yesterday after the approval of Tesla R+D team and it is making news already. You may want to read the article linked here. This is absolutely incredible.
Tesla will be making use of this technology in their Mega Packs and possibly in the upcoming vehicles.


What is new is the "single crystal" NMC532 chemistry and advanced electrolyte systems. It could 6000+ cycles at full 100% depth of discharge. If you limit the charging to 90% and temperatures lower than 105'F, it could last much more. So, 1 million miles or 15 years of service is totally possible.

On an E-bike, let's say you build a 800 Whr pack (This NMC532 chemistry has 15% less energy density compared to NCA), and if you do even very minimal maintenance, it should last 4000 cycles ( or 10+ years).
How cool is that!!!


View attachment 37999

View attachment 37998
Thanks for posting the link... very interesting article.
The bottom line is that the current technology battery cells should be fine for 300K miles... more than enough for most cyclists. ;)

Earlier this year, Musk said that they built Model 3 to last as long as a commercial truck, a million miles,
and the battery modules should last between 300,000 miles and 500,000 miles.
 

Ravi Kempaiah

Well-Known Member
Musk said that they built Model 3 to last as long as a commercial truck, a million miles,
and the battery modules should last between 300,000 miles and 500,000 miles.
This will be used for more critical applications such as grid-balancing, long-haul trucks, cargo ships, powerwalls etc.
E-bikes or scooters account for very small % of Li-ion usage. But, almost everyone in N. America use electricity supplied via grid and trucks play a very important role in delivering food, gas, and many other supplies. Cargo ships, trucks and large power plants are much more polluting than any vehicle. If we address that, we could really lower the carbon footprint.

This paper provides a comprehensive review of the biggest pollution sources:

 

Ravi Kempaiah

Well-Known Member
The EV community embraced this news because they understand the import of this result and how transformative it can be.
Prof. Dahn made the paper open access... and that is true science.

" Full details of these cells including electrode compositions, electrode loadings, electrolyte compositions, additives used, etc. have been
provided in contrast to literature reports using commercial cells. This has been done so that others can re-create these cells and use them as
benchmarks for their own R+D efforts be they in the spaces of Li-ion cells or “beyond Li-ion cells”
.



A lot of news outlets picked it up:

Forbes:


CleanTechnica:


Charged EVs: