2017 commuter ebike - izip e3 dash vs haibike trekking 4.0

Discussion in 'Help Choosing an Ebike' started by Bryan995, Dec 4, 2017.

  1. Bryan995

    Bryan995 New Member

    Hi All,

    I've recently moved, and now have the opportunity to bike commute (previously I lived 0.5 miles from work, so I walked)

    New commute is 4.5miles each way, with a large hill in the middle.

    Looking for a well-built commuter bike that can be used daily and or taken on local paths, to grocery store, etc etc.

    Live in sunny CA, so little risk of cold/rain. Per CA law, class 1/2 look to be the most permissive. Class 3 is banned from bike paths (not bike lanes).

    I've narrowed things down to two bikes.

    2017 HaiBike Trekking 4.0 (20mph, class 1)
    2017 Izip E3 dash (28mph, class 3)

    Working with both a local dealer and a remote dealer.

    After some negotation, I can get the Izip E3 via remote dealer for ~$1550 OTD or the Haibike trekking for $2200 OTD via local dealer.

    Does the Haibike command a $700 increase over the iZip in anyone's opinion?


    Is there another key bike I am leaving out?

    Thanks !
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2017


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  3. JayVee

    JayVee Well-Known Member

    Over50 likes this.
  4. hurricane56

    hurricane56 Member

    If this is going to be short distance commuter, 20mph Class 1 bike will work. If you ever need the higher top speed, the Yamaha drive could possibly be unlocked via plug-in tuner.

    The iZip E3 has a better front fork, RockShox Paragon vs the SunTour model on the Haibike. I feel the Yamaha drive unit is more popular than the TransX.

    As far as the class of ebike, I think nobody cares at the moment as long as you're not being a jerk with speed or crazy in traffic.
     
  5. e-boy

    e-boy Member

    Poster is asking about SDuro not XDuro .
     
  6. e-boy

    e-boy Member

    Poster is asking about SDuro not XDuro .
     
  7. JayVee

    JayVee Well-Known Member

    He asked for other suggestions. I really wouldn't get an Sduro. And I own one... :)
     
    Leandro likes this.
  8. rich c

    rich c Active Member

    I'm a huge Haibike fan, but only with Bosch power. The premium for Bosch is worth every penny in my book.
     
    Leandro and hurricane56 like this.
  9. hurricane56

    hurricane56 Member

    I’d look at a Haibike Trekking S, with Bosch Performance Speed motor. The only thing I didn’t like about the 2016 model that I bought on clearance was the front fork. The SunTour forks are heavy and it didn’t really make a difference in the ride quality.
     
    Leandro likes this.
  10. Over50

    Over50 Active Member

    Actually the poster didn't specify Xduro or Sduro (unless I missed it) but I guess based on the price quoted it has to be Sduro. But both are discounted pretty heavily right now so Xduro would be a good suggestion. Perhaps the prices will come down even more as we get to year end. So the commute sounds very short but with a large hill. The Bosch CX will power up that hill and since the distance is short range will not be an issue.
     
  11. Bryan995

    Bryan995 New Member

    Yes sorry all. I was refering to the Sduro Trekking 4.0 with Yamaha PW not the Bosch powered Xduro. Everything I read says to go Bosch and it seems like you all echo that :).

    Will have to call for pricing but I have a feeling the Xduro trekking may be closer to 3k?

    In that case is it worth the 2x price increase over the IZIP? If the haibike will hold its value more so than the IZIP then I have no issue paying a bit more now. But if in 4 years both are down to $500 resale then the IZIP seems like the way to go. Thanks for the help!
     
  12. Bryan995

    Bryan995 New Member

    Second time I’ve seen that. Thanks for the tip.
     
    Leandro likes this.
  13. Bryan995

    Bryan995 New Member

    Hmm ... Sounds like the Yamaha Sduro is out then!? IZIP vs Xduro? :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2017
  14. hurricane56

    hurricane56 Member

    Just for reference my Trekking S Xduro was $2699 during last years clearance.

    As for resale the Haibike might have an edge but seeing resale ads for ebikes here in the SF Bay Area, many bikes are posted for sale at 40-50% off the original sale price after less than a year. I’d recommend buying the bike that fits your needs now and not factor in resale.
     
  15. hurricane56

    hurricane56 Member

    What did you not like about the Yamaha system?
     
  16. Bryan995

    Bryan995 New Member

    Perfect - appreciate that data point. Best I can find for the Sduro trekking 4.0 is $1999, so $700 more for the Xduro seems reasonable. Still need to do a bit more searching around re. best pricing. I am down in SD.
     
  17. Bryan995

    Bryan995 New Member

    Yeah exactly - doing just that. I think finding a deal is more important than getting a specific brand/model to me.
    First e-bike, so once I test the waters a bit, I figure I could always upgrade 2-3 years down the line.
     
  18. Over50

    Over50 Active Member

    I was seeing the Xduro prices yesterday of about $3500. Maybe they will come down more. But I like your thinking. If you're testing the waters and think you might upgrade in a few years - and particularly because your commute is shorter - then the IZIP sounds like a great way to go (although I don't have experience with IZIP). It would be nice if you could find a local dealer for that IZIP however. You'd definitely want to test it out.
     
  19. hurricane56

    hurricane56 Member

    It’s always a balancing act between waiting for more of a discount and having it now with your preferred frame size. last year the commuter oriented bikes were in stock well past the new year.
     
  20. JayVee

    JayVee Well-Known Member

    1. The drive has a tendency to resist your efforts above a certain RPM level, and the cadence window in which it provides power is pretty limited. This is perceptible in Standard mode, and painfully perceptible in ECO and ECO+ modes.

    This has several consequences:

    - If you want to tour around in a hilly area, you need to be really fit with the Yamaha. I use ECO mode only when absolutely needed. The Bosch and Shimano ECO modes are infinitely easier on the knees.

    - If you want to climb a hill, the lowest gears might not necessarily be the best gears. If you're spinning away in 1st gear you will quickly hit a cadence where power drops off. This means you'll need to shift up a gear or two to get power. But it also means that climbing will be more difficult on the knees (once again). I climb a 7% grade incline every day and the bike is in 8th or 9th gear (meaning, 2-3 gears away from 11 teeth). I hand't noticed this until someone remarked that I was climbing in a really high gear. Might explain why my knees ache sometimes...

    - Because the cadence is limited, the bike requires an inordinate number of gear shifts in traffic. Think of a scenario where you have several consecutive red lights. After the first red light goes green, I need to shift up 6 times to reach cruising speed. But as soon as I reach cruising speed, I have to shift down several times as well. And start over at each red light. Other drives, like the Bosch or the Shimano have a more intelligent way of dealing with this. Start in 1st gear and shift into second or third gear, then increase the number of RPMs instead of shifting through all the gears. You'll get just as much power and won't constantly be changing gears.


    2. The engineering on some of the parts isn't up to Yamaha standards.

    - The remote is fastened by screws which “bite” into the plastic casing. The result is that it’s impossible to tighten them so that the remote doesn’t swivel around the handlebars. This means that it’s nearly impossible to walk the bike up a hill using RUN mode. Press on the RUN button and the remote simply swivels out of your hand.

    -The bike’s remote is designed in such a manner that you have to take your right hand off the handlebars in order to switch to another level of assist. But the remote often slips away...

    - The button to power on the bike is starting to fail. Sometimes it works, sometimes not.

    - The diagnostic button on the battery sometimes doesn't work.

    3. Although not directly Yamaha's fault, the lighting on many Trekking Sduros is not sufficient for riding in the countryside at night. I have a Trekking Sduro S 6.0 which has a 60 lux light. When riding in the forest at night I can't see the contours of the road ahead. This is because the projected beam is too narrow and the lights not powerful enough.

    So, if I had to do it again, I wouldn't buy a Yamaha powered bike. This is particularly true of the older PW drive system, which still equips most SDUROs.
     
    Bryan995 and hurricane56 like this.
  21. hurricane56

    hurricane56 Member

    That's really good insight on the Yamaha system. Also completely agree on the stock lighting. The 60 lux unit is barely adequate for 20mph city riding. The first thing about night commuting is that you live and die by your lighting setup.