2017 commuter ebike - izip e3 dash vs haibike trekking 4.0

#21
1. The drive has a tendency to resist your efforts above a certain RPM level, and the cadence window in which it provides power is pretty limited. This is perceptible in Standard mode, and painfully perceptible in ECO and ECO+ modes.

This has several consequences:

- If you want to tour around in a hilly area, you need to be really fit with the Yamaha. I use ECO mode only when absolutely needed. The Bosch and Shimano ECO modes are infinitely easier on the knees.

- If you want to climb a hill, the lowest gears might not necessarily be the best gears. If you're spinning away in 1st gear you will quickly hit a cadence where power drops off. This means you'll need to shift up a gear or two to get power. But it also means that climbing will be more difficult on the knees (once again). I climb a 7% grade incline every day and the bike is in 8th or 9th gear (meaning, 2-3 gears away from 11 teeth). I hand't noticed this until someone remarked that I was climbing in a really high gear. Might explain why my knees ache sometimes...

- Because the cadence is limited, the bike requires an inordinate number of gear shifts in traffic. Think of a scenario where you have several consecutive red lights. After the first red light goes green, I need to shift up 6 times to reach cruising speed. But as soon as I reach cruising speed, I have to shift down several times as well. And start over at each red light. Other drives, like the Bosch or the Shimano have a more intelligent way of dealing with this. Start in 1st gear and shift into second or third gear, then increase the number of RPMs instead of shifting through all the gears. You'll get just as much power and won't constantly be changing gears.


2. The engineering on some of the parts isn't up to Yamaha standards.

- The remote is fastened by screws which “bite” into the plastic casing. The result is that it’s impossible to tighten them so that the remote doesn’t swivel around the handlebars. This means that it’s nearly impossible to walk the bike up a hill using RUN mode. Press on the RUN button and the remote simply swivels out of your hand.

-The bike’s remote is designed in such a manner that you have to take your right hand off the handlebars in order to switch to another level of assist. But the remote often slips away...

- The button to power on the bike is starting to fail. Sometimes it works, sometimes not.

- The diagnostic button on the battery sometimes doesn't work.

3. Although not directly Yamaha's fault, the lighting on many Trekking Sduros is not sufficient for riding in the countryside at night. I have a Trekking Sduro S 6.0 which has a 60 lux light. When riding in the forest at night I can't see the contours of the road ahead. This is because the projected beam is too narrow and the lights not powerful enough.

So, if I had to do it again, I wouldn't buy a Yamaha powered bike. This is particularly true of the older PW drive system, which still equips most SDUROs.
Awesome - thanks for the incredible write up. You've convinced me to steer clear of the yamaha drives for the time being. Which of course means that I would need to step up to a Xduro treekking for significant more money.

Local dealer just called and offered a 2017 Haibiki Xduro Trekking S (bosch speed powered) for $3200. Hmm ... I think I might be able to do a tad better if I wait a bit longer ..

Still very much worried about buying the IZIP via remote dealer, having an issue and then being stranded without local dealer support. Even though the price is very attractive. It seems like even if I don't buy the IZIP from the local dealer, they may still be able to / obligated to help with IZIP warranty work? The Xduro 5.0 sure is tempting, but it a bit overkill for my current needs.
 
#23
Awesome - thanks for the incredible write up. You've convinced me to steer clear of the yamaha drives for the time being. Which of course means that I would need to step up to a Xduro treekking for significant more money.

Local dealer just called and offered a 2017 Haibiki Xduro Trekking S (bosch speed powered) for $3200. Hmm ... I think I might be able to do a tad better if I wait a bit longer ..

Still very much worried about buying the IZIP via remote dealer, having an issue and then being stranded without local dealer support. Even though the price is very attractive. It seems like even if I don't buy the IZIP from the local dealer, they may still be able to / obligated to help with IZIP warranty work? The Xduro 5.0 sure is tempting, but it a bit overkill for my current needs.
The service portion is something you'll need to check with the iZip. Just as an example, my friend with a Bulls bike had to pay the LBS a diagnostic fee to initiate a warranty claim on his Bosch powerpack 400. He did not buy the bike at the LBS. This is the one grey zone with many ebike service experiences, it probably varies widely amongst manufacturer and LBS. Even my local dealer where I purchased the bike from has to charge for labor on a warranty parts replacement. The last time I had a repair done they were kind enough to waive the fee, but were upfront about disclosing that before work commenced. I'm guessing Haibike does not compensate the LBS for their time. If you do inquire with the iZip people, you'll also want to ask if the TransX takes software updates and if that would result in a dealer service fee as well.
 
#24
Awesome - thanks for the incredible write up. You've convinced me to steer clear of the yamaha drives for the time being. Which of course means that I would need to step up to a Xduro treekking for significant more money.

Local dealer just called and offered a 2017 Haibiki Xduro Trekking S (bosch speed powered) for $3200. Hmm ... I think I might be able to do a tad better if I wait a bit longer ..

Still very much worried about buying the IZIP via remote dealer, having an issue and then being stranded without local dealer support. Even though the price is very attractive. It seems like even if I don't buy the IZIP from the local dealer, they may still be able to / obligated to help with IZIP warranty work? The Xduro 5.0 sure is tempting, but it a bit overkill for my current needs.
Anybody knows where the op got this deal ? I think $3200 is a good deal for 2017 Xduro Trekking S (especially if it is otd).

I am leaning towards 2017 Xduro fullseven though and if there is a similar offer I really would love to get one(I actually would get trekking S if it is possible to take it to the trails too).
 
#25
Happy to share which local shop got me the deal. It may be more of a YMMV type situation... According to the LBS - this bike was sent to them due to an error by haibike/distributor. Rather than go through the return process and ship it back, they were able to take a discount on their cost if they instead kept the bike - which they then passed onto me. They used this as a leverage to convince me to buy the bike the same day they were suppose to send it back.

Maybe all of that is just a story to close out a deal quicky - or maybe not. I think it is an OK price. It may be possible to do better if one waits longer? I think there is a lot of margin on these bikes.

I am suppose to pick it up sometime this week. Once things are finalized on my end, happy to put you in touch with my sales rep. It is a socal dealer. Don't want to jeopardize my deal ;)
 
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#26
Happy to share which local shop got me the deal. It may be more of a YMMV type situation... According to the LBS - this bike was sent to them due to an error by haibike/distributor. Rather than go through the return process and ship it back, they were able to take a discount on their cost if they instead kept the bike - which they then passed onto me. They used this as a leverage to convince me to buy the bike the same day they were suppose to send it back.

Maybe all of that is just a story to close out a deal quicky - or maybe not. I think it is an OK price. It may be possible to do better if one waits longer? I think there is a lot of margin on these bikes.

I am suppose to pick it up sometime this week. Once things are finalized on my end, happy to put you in touch with my sales rep. It is a socal dealer. Don't want to jeopardize my deal ;)
:) I didn't mean to snatch it from you sorry if it sounded like that. I am actually looking at a different fs model and if possible I wanted to price match with my local shop.

On the other hand that is a model which I liked a lot and I am really happy that you are getting it at a great price(honestly I think you are getting just as good of a bike as the trek commuter with that one). Enjoy and it would be great if you tell me about your opinion on how it rides.
 
#27
Ha - no worries. I really wanted a trekking bike, but was hoping for a bosch power system over the yamaha. Would have been just as happy with a bosch CX 20mph motor, but the 28mph speed motor should be quite nice :). Was a bit hesitant to chip the bike to remove the speed limiter. Will certainly let you know my impressions once I see/ride the bike! More very soon.
 
#28
Ha - no worries. I really wanted a trekking bike, but was hoping for a bosch power system over the yamaha. Would have been just as happy with a bosch CX 20mph motor, but the 28mph speed motor should be quite nice :). Was a bit hesitant to chip the bike to remove the speed limiter. Will certainly let you know my impressions once I see/ride the bike! More very soon.
I wonder if you have received your bike. Maybe you are having too much fun to find time to review it :D
 
#29
Finally picked up the bike! I was a bit unlucky with the bike order/delivery coinciding with a move. Mostly unpacked now, so I visited the shop today to pick up the haibike.

It is very nice :) Power is very smooth and quite noticeable on turbo. Takes the hills completely out of the equation. The build on the haibike seems very solid and well done. Only put 8 miles on it so far, but will start commuting to work end of this week. Shopping for locks / pumps / tools now :). Very pleased. Will have to report back once I put some additional miles on it. @Johnny - I'll PM you the shop info.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/urhs7ccw58cizha/IMG_0677.JPG
https://www.dropbox.com/s/keahq4z0uzwotvt/IMG_4077.JPG
https://www.dropbox.com/s/wji55d3an61897p/IMG_8488.JPG
 
#30
Finally picked up the bike! I was a bit unlucky with the bike order/delivery coinciding with a move. Mostly unpacked now, so I visited the shop today to pick up the haibike.

It is very nice :) Power is very smooth and quite noticeable on turbo. Takes the hills completely out of the equation. The build on the haibike seems very solid and well done. Only put 8 miles on it so far, but will start commuting to work end of this week. Shopping for locks / pumps / tools now :). Very pleased. Will have to report back once I put some additional miles on it. @Johnny - I'll PM you the shop info.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/urhs7ccw58cizha/IMG_0677.JPG
https://www.dropbox.com/s/keahq4z0uzwotvt/IMG_4077.JPG
https://www.dropbox.com/s/wji55d3an61897p/IMG_8488.JPG
Looks very nice I think you have the perfect commuter here(Actually I think it is better than those 5K commuters like Trek etc.) . I realized that Haibikes are somewhat larger than the other brands when it comes to size how is yours' fit ?
 
#31
Fit is pretty good. I am 5'8" and ended up with a Medium 52cm. With the seat close to the lowest it will go, the fit is just about perfect. I think there is still 4-5" left if you chop the seat post (it seems to be hitting the bend in the lower frame)

My commute from home to work is 3.2 miles, with 230 ft increase in elevation and 256 ft decrease in elevation. Took me roughly 15 minutes using Turbo ;) Given the amount of battery usage, I think I will be able to go back and forth to worth ~3 times before requiring a charge.

Still only day 1 of commuting, but so far so good!
 
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