2018 Yamaha Mid-Drives , Haibike vs. Emotion , vs. Giant ?

Discussion in 'Help Choosing an Ebike' started by e-boy, Sep 1, 2017.

  1. e-boy

    e-boy Member



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  3. Mark Peralta

    Mark Peralta Well-Known Member

    For 150 dollars more, the Haibike gives you factory front and rear fenders, front light, rear light, 20 speeds (instead of 9 speeds), upscale derailer, kickstand, rear rack, and 25 percent more battery capacity (minus bottle cage holder). Giant is cheaper by 150 dollars but Haibike is the better value for the money.

    If you intend to use it as a commuter, then go Haibike. If you just use it only for mountain trails and bike trails on the day time, then Giant will suffice.
     
  4. e-boy

    e-boy Member

    Thanks .
    I intended to use as transportation , commuter .
    What would be a competitor to the Haibike , with a Bosch mid-drive ?
     
  5. JayVee

    JayVee Well-Known Member

    I own the Haibike Sduro 6.0. It's good for commuting, but less good when it comes to touring. The ECO modes are very weak and require a lot of effort. The Bosch drive is easier to use for longer tours because the assistance levels are better distributed and higher RPMs are available in the lower assist levels.

    The Yamaha PW SE drive solves some of these issues. Next year's EU model will be equipped with it. The 2018 bike you've shown is essentially this year's EU model with the same PW drive l have, but trimmed down to 20mph and with weaker components (lights, brakes). But the US price is rather mellow.
     
  6. e-boy

    e-boy Member

    Thanks.
    What bike with Bosch Performance mid-drive would be the alternative to the SDURO 6.0 ?
     
  7. JayVee

    JayVee Well-Known Member

  8. Mark Peralta

    Mark Peralta Well-Known Member

  9. e-boy

    e-boy Member

    Thanks .
    Haibike XDURO Trekking 9.0 vs Trek XM700+ ?
    Does it just come down to which is the better fitting bike ?
    Haibike is $500 more .
     
  10. Mark Peralta

    Mark Peralta Well-Known Member

    For 500 dollars more, the Haibike has real front suspension (instead of minimalistic elastomer), heavy duty rear rack, tail light, 11 speed (instead of 10 speed) with better climbing ratio, 25% more battery capacity, orange side reflectors. The Haibike is more expensive but you get your money's worth. Either way, both are reputable brands.
     
  11. e-boy

    e-boy Member

    Thanks .
    Or for $1000 less the SDURO Trekking 7.0 .
    It has a Bosch CX Performance (20 Mph)
     
  12. Over50

    Over50 Active Member

    I've been doing some real world testing (posted on my two threads) between commuting on a 20 mph bike and a 28 mph bike. I think it really comes down to the characteristics of commute. My commute is a lot of start/stop. Maybe 2/3rds of a 33 mile round trip is start/stop and 1/3rd open road where I can obtain higher speed. My finding has been I get almost identical time with the lower speed bike. The Haibike (20 mph bike) with the CX motor gives me the higher torque which really helps with fast acceleration from a stop. The Riese and Muller (28 mph bike) gives me the higher speed in the open sections. The difference is cruising at 19 mph on the Haibike vs up to about 24 mph on the R&M but I get faster acceleration from a stop on the Haibike. The Haibike is also more agile for those times when I need to take to a sidewalk or jump some curbs. I'm getting practically the exact same average commute times on both bikes. So if the commute is mostly a start/stop urban commute or a commute with lots of hills then I think that Bosch CX motor (20 mph) is a competitive option as a commuter.

    E-boy - if that describes your commute and you are considering a 20 mph bike, I'd also take a look at the 2018 Trek Powerfly 5 hardtail. It has the Bosch CX motor (20 mph) but can be outfitted with rack, fenders and lights. I think they list it at $3,500 w/out the rack, fender and lights. Benefit of Trek is the extensive dealer network. They've done a really nice job blending the battery. If I had seen the new Treks before I ordered my Haibike I might have opted for the Powerfly 5 instead. The price probably would have come out the same in the end after the add-ons to the Trek. If your commute is mostly open, smooth roads then Trek offers the Super Commuter.

    From the video that Court posted recently, it appears the new Yamaha motor will be smaller yet offer higher torque. That might worth waiting for and taking a test ride on.
     
  13. e-boy

    e-boy Member

    Thanks ; this is helpful .
     
  14. Mark Peralta

    Mark Peralta Well-Known Member

    trekking.jpg The Bosch is a 500 dollar upgrade. The 28 mph version costs another 1,000 dolars (XDURO TREKKING S 9.0)
     
  15. rich c

    rich c Active Member

    I own two Haibike XDURO 28mph bikes. A Full Seven and a Trekking. Both 2016 models. If that Suntour fork is the same as my 2016, plan on replacing some time. I have 1000 miles on mine, and I still don't like the spring suspension fork. Light years behind the air suspension fork on the Full Seven for ride comfort. I really enjoy the 28mph option. I seldom hit it, but often hit 24mph. I'd even spend the $1000 extra to get it. I rode 2000 miles last year, shooting for 3000 miles this year. $1000 over 5,000 miles doesn't account for much each mile! With my engineering background, I can dollar justify about anything to make myself feel better about spending. Another thing about the Haibike racks, you need to have panniers with oversized hooks. Someone mentioned the Eco mode as very weak. Depends on your legs and terrain. I spend about 60% of my riding in Eco.
     
    hurricane56 likes this.
  16. Mark Peralta

    Mark Peralta Well-Known Member

    My experience when it comes to frequent stops and rapid accelrations is that it is easier to do it on a hub driven ebike. I have 2 mid drives and 2 hub drives (one already sold), all of them 28 mph capable. On the hub driven ebike, there is no power interruption when accelerating and shifting and there is less stress to the chain and sprockets. Interestingly, the hub drives are not far behind when it comes to hills except on really really steep mountain trails which you don't encounter on paved roads anyway. Once the hub drive gains momentum, it is still faster than mid drives even on the hills. You might want to try hub drives too and see which one best serve your needs.

    Here's another guy comparing his hub drive vs mid drive. I kmow this is not apples to apples but these are what's on the market today.

     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2017
    Alphbetadog likes this.
  17. e-boy

    e-boy Member

    Which hub drive bikes do you like ?
    I test rode a BH Easy Motion EVO Cross ; it was a few months ago , but I recall it was a comfortable riding position and ride .
     
  18. Mark Peralta

    Mark Peralta Well-Known Member

    I have the old models. A 2015 Izip Dash and a 2009 lead acid powered Rayos with regeared sprocket that I sold away. You might want to try the Evo city+ and see if you like it.
    https://emotionbikesusa.com/evo-city/
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2017
  19. e-boy

    e-boy Member

    Thanks ; I don't see any info online for BH Easy Motion about 2018 .
     
  20. Mark Peralta

    Mark Peralta Well-Known Member

    I think the models listed on the easy motion website are the current models (2017 and 2018) since there is a section there for "prior models".
    https://emotionbikesusa.com/evo-city/

    https://emotionbikesusa.com/prior-models/

    You might want to see other brands, such as the Magnum (US company). Ideal for commuting with bigger battery capacity and 28 mph top speed.
    https://www.magnumbikes.com/product/magnum-metro-plus/
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2017
  21. Over50

    Over50 Active Member

    Maybe check out the Ohms. I haven't ridden one but they seem to have solid reviews and a good price (and ready made for commuting). If I had a dealer locally I might have ended up with one of the Ohms rather than 2 Bosch mid-drives. I think you can order them as 20 mph or as 28 mph bikes. They would make the software adjustment and label them prior to shipping (to meet the California legislation I believe). I think this is explained in Court's reviews:
    https://electricbikereview.com/ohm/sport-ebike/
    https://electricbikereview.com/ohm/urban-ebike/