2020 Riese & Müller Ebikes

webcurl

Active Member
After buying the SC GX in 2018 (which i still love!) my ideal 2020 R&M would be:

Superdelite Mountain Rohloff with:
Front carrier
Rear carrier
And the following options would be nice :)
Wider sturdier Rims
Ergon GP5 grips
Abus Bordo Alarm 6000A/120
Manual Rohloff shifter
Larger front disc rotor
Raceface Aeffect pedals
Possibly an easy to add/remove semi integrated Faiv Hoogar front rack option (because they don't ship outside the EU)
The option to de-restrict the Gen4 motor

Would be a perfect bush touring beast and fine for around town :)
 

smorgasbord

Active Member
my ideal 2020 R&M would be:
Superdelite Mountain Rohloff with:
Rear carrier
Ergon GP5 grips
Abus Bordo Alarm 6000A/120
Larger front disc rotor
Raceface Aeffect pedals
The option to de-restrict the Gen4 motor
From what I can tell, the Superdelite GT Rohloff HS gets you the rear rack with the 28MPH top speed limit (and still 75 Nm torque, although I suspect the torque curve is different between the Performance and CX models). So maybe you won't need to derestrict.
You can then add the GX option to that.
Grips, alarm and pedals are easy to add at any time.
Larger front rotor should be pretty straightforward to do, unless R&M has done something unique for caliper mounting.

As for the manual Rohloff, you'd be out of luck there. Having test ridden a bike with the E-14 as well as the manual shifting, I can understand why you wouldn't want the motor pause, but others say it's something that you learn and becomes second nature to anticipate.
 

opimax

Well-Known Member
I tested 1 bike with the motor pause , isn't for me, Stops me from considering Bosch , can it be turned off?
 

webcurl

Active Member
From what I can tell, the Superdelite GT Rohloff HS gets you the rear rack with the 28MPH top speed limit (and still 75 Nm torque, although I suspect the torque curve is different between the Performance and CX models). So maybe you won't need to derestrict.
You can then add the GX option to that.
Grips, alarm and pedals are easy to add at any time.
Larger front rotor should be pretty straightforward to do, unless R&M has done something unique for caliper mounting.

As for the manual Rohloff, you'd be out of luck there. Having test ridden a bike with the E-14 as well as the manual shifting, I can understand why you wouldn't want the motor pause, but others say it's something that you learn and becomes second nature to anticipate.
HS version would not be available in Australia.
Fox 36 vs 34 (Kashima Coat vs not), 150mm front travel vs 140mm.
I'd prefer to try 70mm Hans Dampf vs 60mm Rock Razor.
Although i would prefer the adjustable stem of the GT.
As for alarm lock, i find a 120cm circumference much more useful and it would be nice to not have a $100 plus lock that is keyed alike to my bike not doing anything and carrying an extra key for a larger lock. I know you can get them keyed alike but it takes a while with extra transport costs i believe.

As for manual Rohloff, i have become quite accustomed to it. I like to be able to change from between 1 and 4 gears at a time quickly and by feel. I hardly ever look at the numbers except for sometimes whilst starting. Also it's a thing i'd like to keep mechanical with less reliance on electrics.
 
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I tested 1 bike with the motor pause , isn't for me, Stops me from considering Bosch , can it be turned off?
Ugh you are right about that! I've put 1500mi on a HS nuvinci/vario and it simply doesn't pause; I rode an E14 HS (on an Homage) over the weekend and wow! That thing spends more time paused than it does applying power from 0-28mph! Sure once you are in a gear for a few seconds it applies power, but going 5-6-7-8-9, in each gear for no more than 2 seconds as you get up to speed its not doing anything the whole time!

E14 sure was nice at speed though.. easily another 5mph top speed with that thing. I bet on the 2020 HS motor you could sit right at 28mph for your whole ride.
 

David Roy

Well-Known Member
Ugh you are right about that! I've put 1500mi on a HS nuvinci/vario and it simply doesn't pause; I rode an E14 HS (on an Homage) over the weekend and wow! That thing spends more time paused than it does applying power from 0-28mph! Sure once you are in a gear for a few seconds it applies power, but going 5-6-7-8-9, in each gear for no more than 2 seconds as you get up to speed its not doing anything the whole time!

E14 sure was nice at speed though.. easily another 5mph top speed with that thing. I bet on the 2020 HS motor you could sit right at 28mph for your whole ride.
I can understand why a test ride on an electronic shifting Rohloff would be unsatisfactory. I received my Homage with Rohloff late in July. The first ride was rough. But few hours practice in timing the shift improved the experience. Now I don’t notice the pause at all. I have put about 1500 miles on the bike and shifting is quick and smooth both up and down the range. The key for me was learning to time the button push when my foot was just at the 6 o’clock position. It does take practice.

I’m still not crazy about the rubber buttons!
 
I can understand why a test ride on an electronic shifting Rohloff would be unsatisfactory. I received my Homage with Rohloff late in July. The first ride was rough. But few hours practice in timing the shift improved the experience. Now I don’t notice the pause at all. I have put about 1500 miles on the bike and shifting is quick and smooth both up and down the range. The key for me was learning to time the button push when my foot was just at the 6 o’clock position. It does take practice.

I’m still not crazy about the rubber buttons!
I had read this opinion here on a the forums a few times and, as i intend to buy an E14 equipped HS Homage, I really went into it thinking "i can master this quickly" but having come from nonstop power on a nuvinci, i found even after the shift had completed on the E14 it felt like years before power finally came back on; long enough i was already attempting to shift again by that point. True it was only 2 miles.

If i get lucky i might end up with just that very thing, an Homage HS with an E14 so.. maybe i'll get used to it in the end.
 

Alaskan

Well-Known Member
We have had a Nevo with the Nuvinci hub, now own 2018 Delight Mountain a 2018 Homage with manual Rohloff and a 2019 Homage with E14, Every shifting system benefits in durability if they are shifted with a slight hesitation in power applied to the cranks. The chain will last far longer as will the teeth on the chain ring and the rear cassette. It is easiest not to execute a brief pause on a derailleur system, less so with a Nuvinci and absolutely necessary using a Rohloff. It may be possible to change gears without a pause if you are not climbing a hill but you will get grinding gears and your chain will not last very long at all.

We all know what a derailleur feels like. I found the Nuvinci the easiest to shift quickly and smoothly. That said it was noticeably slower than a bike with the same CX motor with 11 speed derailleur due to the inherent inefficiency of the transmission with its 17% loss of wattage from the cranks to the rear wheel. The Rohloff feels equally efficient to a derailleur system.

The manual Rohloff took a bit of time to accommodate the need for a hiccup in power to the cranks but once I learned to do so with my feet at 6 o'clock and 12 o'clock I soon was able to shift up or down while climbing a 15% grade without issue. With the manual shifter it took two grabs of the rotary shift to go more than three gears at a time.

The E14 does have a 180 millisecond pause during a shift. That is less than 1/4 of a second. When I first rode with the E14 I was not happy with the jerky feel of the e shift. Then I realized I was not easing up on the pedals as I had been with the manual shifter. When I resumed the momentary pause with my feet, the shifting instantly became butter smooth and nearly instantaneous. After a few rides I have committed the process of shifting 1,4,7 or ten gears at a time by varying the press and hold time to muscle memory.

Not only would I never willingly return to a manual shift but I had our 2018 Homage which my wife rides retrofitted with the e-14 electronic shift system. After three rides Nancy is also sold on the superiority of the the E14 over manual shifting.

I really like how one of the fields on my Nyon display shows the gear I am in with an x/14 (x being the present gear). It also has an up and down arrow for shift recommendation when spinning to high or low. On the Intuvia display the current gear is one of the info fields that can be selected and displayed.

I understand the reluctance of some to rely on electronics to be able to shift. My experience to date is that the system is absolutely reliable. I have ridden E14 for over 3,000 miles without issue.

There is a learning curve but really after less than 5 rides I pretty much had it all down. In return I get rock solid reliability, a huge gear range from billy goat to speed demon, great longevity and minimal maintenance.

Rohloff with E14 rules.
 

webcurl

Active Member
We have had a Nevo with the Nuvinci hub, now own 2018 Delight Mountain a 2018 Homage with manual Rohloff and a 2019 Homage with E14, Every shifting system benefits in durability if they are shifted with a slight hesitation in power applied to the cranks. The chain will last far longer as will the teeth on the chain ring and the rear cassette. It is easiest not to execute a brief pause on a derailleur system, less so with a Nuvinci and absolutely necessary using a Rohloff. It may be possible to change gears without a pause if you are not climbing a hill but you will get grinding gears and your chain will not last very long at all.

We all know what a derailleur feels like. I found the Nuvinci the easiest to shift quickly and smoothly. That said it was noticeably slower than a bike with the same CX motor with 11 speed derailleur due to the inherent inefficiency of the transmission with its 17% loss of wattage from the cranks to the rear wheel. The Rohloff feels equally efficient to a derailleur system.

The manual Rohloff took a bit of time to accommodate the need for a hiccup in power to the cranks but once I learned to do so with my feet at 6 o'clock and 12 o'clock I soon was able to shift up or down while climbing a 15% grade without issue. With the manual shifter it took two grabs of the rotary shift to go more than three gears at a time.

The E14 does have a 180 millisecond pause during a shift. That is less than 1/4 of a second. When I first rode with the E14 I was not happy with the jerky feel of the e shift. Then I realized I was not easing up on the pedals as I had been with the manual shifter. When I resumed the momentary pause with my feet, the shifting instantly became butter smooth and nearly instantaneous. After a few rides I have committed the process of shifting 1,4,7 or ten gears at a time by varying the press and hold time to muscle memory.

Not only would I never willingly return to a manual shift but I had our 2018 Homage which my wife rides retrofitted with the e-14 electronic shift system. After three rides Nancy is also sold on the superiority of the the E14 over manual shifting.

I really like how one of the fields on my Nyon display shows the gear I am in with an x/14 (x being the present gear). It also has an up and down arrow for shift recommendation when spinning to high or low. On the Intuvia display the current gear is one of the info fields that can be selected and displayed.

I understand the reluctance of some to rely on electronics to be able to shift. My experience to date is that the system is absolutely reliable. I have ridden E14 for over 3,000 miles without issue.

There is a learning curve but really after less than 5 rides I pretty much had it all down. In return I get rock solid reliability, a huge gear range from billy goat to speed demon, great longevity and minimal maintenance.

Rohloff with E14 rules.
I agree with most of that even without ever trying an E14, i can guess it's sweet, i don't have a problem with my wrist shifting up to 4 at a time.
But for my preference if i was in the bush (Ozzie speak maybe for remote country) and the battery run out of power to drive the motor let's say 6+6 hours ago (because there was no solar or any other charging available), i would really like the ability to power on with my legs whilst changing gears.
There are massive differences between population densities of countries like Australia, USA, Germany and Alaska :)
And taking the gear change mech off and manually doing it with some pliers or so is definitely not a desirable option that is still available if cables don't work.
Does anyone know how many shifts the E14 can do without lights on after insufficient 500Wh or 1000Wh battery for the motor?
I've only ridden once for only 2km (after 122km of many hills and flats on lazy mode (turbo)) beyond the system cutting off the motor and it was dark and kept the lights on.
Which is why in turn i'm super interested in the Superdelite with the new motor with less resistance on no power.
 
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Chris Nolte

Well-Known Member
I agree with most of that even without ever trying an E14, i can guess it's sweet, i don't have a problem with my wrist shifting up to 4 at a time.
But for my preference if i was in the bush (Ozzie speak maybe for remote country) and the battery run out of power to drive the motor let's say 6+6 hours ago (because there was no solar or any other charging available), i would really like the ability to power on with my legs whilst changing gears.
There are massive differences between population densities of countries like Australia, USA, Germany and Alaska :)
And taking the gear change mech off and manually doing it with some pliers or so is definitely not a desirable option that is still available if cables don't work.
Does anyone know how many shifts the E14 can do without lights on after insufficient 500Wh or 1000Wh battery for the motor?
I've only ridden once for only 2km (after 122km of many hills and flats on lazy mode (turbo)) beyond the system cutting off the motor and it was dark and kept the lights on.
Which is why in turn i'm super interested in the Superdelite with the new motor with less resistance on no power.
I believe the remaining battery life for the lights is normally 3% and I believe with E-shift it can go up to 5%. This would give you hundreds of shifts I would imagine. I’ll see if I can get a more specific answer from Bosch.
 

webcurl

Active Member
I believe the remaining battery life for the lights is normally 3% and I believe with E-shift it can go up to 5%. This would give you hundreds of shifts I would imagine. I’ll see if I can get a more specific answer from Bosch.
This adds another suggestion for Bosch :)
The ability via Kiox or Smartphone Hub to ignore lights and give an extra 3% range for the motor, not a lot but nice to have as an option.
 

Dionigi

Well-Known Member
We have had a Nevo with the Nuvinci hub, now own 2018 Delight Mountain a 2018 Homage with manual Rohloff and a 2019 Homage with E14, Every shifting system benefits in durability if they are shifted with a slight hesitation in power applied to the cranks. The chain will last far longer as will the teeth on the chain ring and the rear cassette. It is easiest not to execute a brief pause on a derailleur system, less so with a Nuvinci and absolutely necessary using a Rohloff. It may be possible to change gears without a pause if you are not climbing a hill but you will get grinding gears and your chain will not last very long at all.

We all know what a derailleur feels like. I found the Nuvinci the easiest to shift quickly and smoothly. That said it was noticeably slower than a bike with the same CX motor with 11 speed derailleur due to the inherent inefficiency of the transmission with its 17% loss of wattage from the cranks to the rear wheel. The Rohloff feels equally efficient to a derailleur system.

The manual Rohloff took a bit of time to accommodate the need for a hiccup in power to the cranks but once I learned to do so with my feet at 6 o'clock and 12 o'clock I soon was able to shift up or down while climbing a 15% grade without issue. With the manual shifter it took two grabs of the rotary shift to go more than three gears at a time.

The E14 does have a 180 millisecond pause during a shift. That is less than 1/4 of a second. When I first rode with the E14 I was not happy with the jerky feel of the e shift. Then I realized I was not easing up on the pedals as I had been with the manual shifter. When I resumed the momentary pause with my feet, the shifting instantly became butter smooth and nearly instantaneous. After a few rides I have committed the process of shifting 1,4,7 or ten gears at a time by varying the press and hold time to muscle memory.

Not only would I never willingly return to a manual shift but I had our 2018 Homage which my wife rides retrofitted with the e-14 electronic shift system. After three rides Nancy is also sold on the superiority of the the E14 over manual shifting.

I really like how one of the fields on my Nyon display shows the gear I am in with an x/14 (x being the present gear). It also has an up and down arrow for shift recommendation when spinning to high or low. On the Intuvia display the current gear is one of the info fields that can be selected and displayed.

I understand the reluctance of some to rely on electronics to be able to shift. My experience to date is that the system is absolutely reliable. I have ridden E14 for over 3,000 miles without issue.

There is a learning curve but really after less than 5 rides I pretty much had it all down. In return I get rock solid reliability, a huge gear range from billy goat to speed demon, great longevity and minimal maintenance.

Rohloff with E14 rules.
In three or 4 years the Rohloff hub will be obsolete on ebikes. It’s reliability is very overrated and by adding electronic shifting it is only masking it’s worts. The future will be the integration of the motor and transmission.
 

David Berry

Well-Known Member
The future will be the integration of the motor and transmission.
Continental 48 Volt Revolution …
revolution-NuVinci.jpg

Continental's 48 volt motor and a planetary gear combo promises all the shifting advantages of an Enviolo system, but I have no idea whether these promises have been delivered.

I doubt whether it will be seen as a threat to Rohloff. Of course, Riese & Müller is committed to Bosch.

Here is a link: Continental 48V CeBS Revolution.