A critical look at the Haibike Trekking (open to all variants)

JayVee

Well-Known Member
I thought I would open this thread to go through all the flaws people see with the Trekking models. There are a lot of different variants, but a lot of these bikes share common parts. Just state your model and what you think Haibike (or its suppliers) could have done better. The idea isn’t to bash the bikes but to give a list of longterm ownership problems (and any workarounds), and maybe a couple of positives too.

I have the Trekking Sduro S 6.0 2017 which is the Yamaha 45km/h version available in the EU only. All in all it’s not a bad bike, but if Haibike had chosen slightly higher quality parts for certain key accessories, they could have built a better bike while maintaining roughly the same price. Yamaha and Magura should have paid a lot more attention to details.

Full specs are here:

https://www.haibike.com/en/CH/bikes/274/2017-sduro-trekking-s-6-0


Haibike_2017_SDURO_Trekking_S_60_He.png

A short list of issues:

  • The bike comes with flimsy SKS chromoplastics fenders. The rear fender works as advertised, but the front one wobbles and makes an absolutely horrible noise.
  • The Magura MT4 brakes progressively leak. A mechanic where I bought the bike said they’ve sold a lot of models with MT4 brakes and this is quite common. Each time you change the pads a little bit of liquid leaks out when you press apart the pistons. So you have to be ever so careful doing this.
  • The Yamaha plastic remote is fixed onto the handlebars by two screws which bite into its casing. The remote constantly swivels out of place, which is very annoying. You cannot use WALK mode because of this. I've put a plastic band under the remote which only half solves the problem.
  • The status button on the battery progressively regresses and becomes more and more difficult to use with time.
  • The battery rattles, which can actually be eliminated by using a neoprene sleeve. For the summer you can use a cutout sleeve.
  • The assist levels are not evenly spaced out on this bike. ECO+ gives a ridiculously low amount of assist, and then there’s normal ECO which is fine. But between ECO and Standard mode there is a huge gap. It’s really difficult to tour around in ECO mode on this bike because it takes a lot of strength. That impacts range a lot. I typically get 35-40 kilometers on a full charge (300 meter vertical delta, 95 kilo rider).
  • The ride is bumpy. People have often placed the blame on the Suntour SR, which only has 63mm of travel. That’s true, but it’s only part of the problem. The narrow 700x38 tires are also part of the problem. And then there’s the frame. It’s so stiff that the rear bounces off each and every bump. The smaller the frame, the bumpier the ride… I have a 52 which is a size S. Guess that doesn’t help.
Some positives:
  • The rack is often critiqued (Standwell Carrymore), but is actually one of the best parts of the bike according to me. It adapts to almost anything and is fairly sturdy.
  • Brake lights are a nice addition. They're made by Busch & Müller (Toplight Line E Brake).
  • Zero Cadence is really helpful in traffic.
  • The bike climbs beautifully compared to some other 45km/h mid-drives. It’s not the fastest, but you can bet you’ll make it to the top of the hill each and every time. When things start to get tough, those 80Nm are there and you can feel them.
  • Rims are top notch. These things stay true no matter what. (Rodi Black Rock Disc).
  • Chain and drivetrain are built to last. Roughly 8000 kilometers and still good.
  • Lights are always on, which annoyed me at first. But it’s a good safety feature.
  • Mirror is tucked under the handlebars. Good job here too.
  • The kickstand auto-retracts when sold, but if you remove a spring it behaves like a normal kickstand. Good job by the supplier on helping the user to get around the silly regulations here. It's a Pletscher Comp ARA.

The unscrutables:
  • The Yamaha PW drive is amongst the things that are almost impossible to describe as good or bad. It’s just ‘different’. The drive likes torque input from the rider. That means not spinning too fast and putting a fair amount of pressure on the pedals. So you will often need to be in quite a high gear to get the best out of it. I would qualify the drive as being deceptively powerful. If you’re in those higher gears, and put in the effort, you can get a fair amount of power from this drive. If you want to go fast but don’t have strong knees and thighs, and want to spin instead of mash, this definitely isn’t the drive for you. People have said that the assist being limited to lower cadences (under 90-92) is a ‘bad thing’, but you quickly get accustomed to it.
 
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Manu

Active Member
the plate of 48t is natural that you think has no use because the mid-drive assists up to 45km / h ..... but that plate gives you up to 60km / h of top speed down the mountain by road, as I gives them to me with a pedelec of 25km / h .... well 62 km / h.I really do appreciate it.

That dish allows to have a full range from 0 speed to 45km / h low cadence ....... yesterday I did 3 continuous hours of pedelec at 25km / h and I got those 3 hours for the low rate and use that dish, if I have to go to more revolutions I'm dying

You do not have flat terrain but with that plate you go at 30km / h very soft and low cadence and eating a snack if you want.

In my case using the blueped.
 
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Ravi Kempaiah

Well-Known Member
Neat!
Lots of useful info.
I enjoy pedaling hard compared to spinning and I have always enjoyed Brose and Yamaha for that reason although I ride the Bosch trekking bike. Bosch Trekking S Rx has been great but I do wish it had more range. I wish this package had Supernova M99 lights and some higher volume tires.

This summer, I am switching to Big Ben tires and better fenders. Surprisingly, Magura brakes have been top notch on both Haibike and Stromer. Always reliable stopping power at my disposal and have been very happy with that.

If only there was a S-pedelec with 750Whr battery, <50lbs weight, Supernova M99 lights, Magura MT5 and 27.5" high volume tires....

Actually, I am thinking of getting the Trekking 9.0 Bosch bike and unlock it....
 

JayVee

Well-Known Member
If only there was a S-pedelec with 750Whr battery, <50lbs weight, Supernova M99 lights, Magura MT5 and 27.5" high volume tires....

Actually, I am thinking of getting the Trekking 9.0 Bosch bike and unlock it....
Yup, I agree about the 750 WH battery. I’ve bought a second Yamaha battery so I can tour a bit more. The only issue with the second battery is that it’s not secured to the bike. I store it in a trunk bag. That means I can’t go shopping with it. I do everything with my bike as I live in a neighborhood which allows it. But I think that leaving an unlocked battery would be pushing it a bit.

I will probably keep the bike for a year or two more. It was a good deal and that’s not easy to find here. I really like the Stromer ST1x but it’s heavy and I have to carry the bike up a flight of stairs. The Haibike Trekking is very practical in that sense. I also like that it has quick release wheels. A flat is quickly fixed.
 

Bryan995

Member
I too have the same bike, only the Trekking S 5.0 (w/ Bosch motor).

I certainly noticed these three issues:

  • The bike comes with flimsy SKS chromoplastics fenders. The rear fender works as advertised, but the front one wobbles and makes an absolutely horrible noise.
  • The Magura MT4 brakes progressively leak. A mechanic where I bought the bike said they’ve sold a lot of models with MT4 brakes and this is quite common. Each time you change the pads a little bit of liquid leaks out when you press apart the pistons. So you have to be ever so careful doing this.
  • The ride is bumpy. People have often placed the blame on the Suntour SR, which only has 63mm of travel. That’s true, but it’s only part of the problem. The narrow 700x38 tires are also part of the problem. And then there’s the frame. It’s so stiff that the rear bounces off each and every bump. The smaller the frame, the bumpier the ride… I have a 52 which is a size S
I also have a Haibike FullNine 6.0 w/ Yamaha motor, and I can totally understand the gripes about the yamaha motor on a trekking bike. The bosch and yamaha motor are quite different - yamaha needing more user input to power up the motor. The bosch gives full power regardless of pedal pressure.

Any solutions to the below two?

My front fender has a horrible rattle and is always quite loose. The hanging bracket is poorly designed. Any better swap-in replacements? I've tried zip-tie-ing the fender in place but that was only a temporary fix.

How about the brake issue? My brakes have an occasional squeal. Perhaps this is because of oil on the pads? The only solution may be a pad replacement (have not yet attempted, only 600miles on the bike). However if oil will continually leak then I may be going through pads quite often?

I also think I will switch to Big Ben tires and better fenders when it comes time. Hoping the wider tires will fit - will have to look into this a bit.
 
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JayVee

Well-Known Member
I too have the same bike, only the Trekking S 5.0 (w/ Bosch motor).

I certainly noticed these three issues:

  • The bike comes with flimsy SKS chromoplastics fenders. The rear fender works as advertised, but the front one wobbles and makes an absolutely horrible noise.
  • The Magura MT4 brakes progressively leak. A mechanic where I bought the bike said they’ve sold a lot of models with MT4 brakes and this is quite common. Each time you change the pads a little bit of liquid leaks out when you press apart the pistons. So you have to be ever so careful doing this.
  • The ride is bumpy. People have often placed the blame on the Suntour SR, which only has 63mm of travel. That’s true, but it’s only part of the problem. The narrow 700x38 tires are also part of the problem. And then there’s the frame. It’s so stiff that the rear bounces off each and every bump. The smaller the frame, the bumpier the ride… I have a 52 which is a size S
I also have a Haibike FullNine 6.0 w/ Yamaha motor, and I can totally understand the gripes about the yamaha motor on a trekking bike. The bosch and yamaha motor are quite different - yamaha needing more user input to power up the motor. The bosch gives full power regardless of pedal pressure.

Any solutions to the below two?

My front fender has a horrible rattle and is always quite loose. The hanging bracket is poorly designed. Any better swap-in replacements? I've tried zip-tie-ing the fender in place but that was only a temporary fix.

How about the brake issue? My brakes have an occasional squeal. Perhaps this is because of oil on the pads? The only solution may be a pad replacement (have not yet attempted, only 600miles on the bike). However if oil will continually leak then I may be going through pads quite often?
I actually posted the solution to the fender wobble in post 19 in the link below. Just make a rubber dampener. It works great. Zero problems since.

https://electricbikereview.com/forum/threads/lights-on-haibike-trekking-s-8-0-and-a-lot-of-other-stuff.22300/#post-135819

The brake leaks are more difficult. Try not to press apart the pistons when you change the pads. You can do that by changing one pad at a time. You need to swap the old pad for the new pad as quickly as possible before the caliper retracts.

If your brakes start to ‘go long’, even after swapping out the pads I’d recommend burping them rather than bleeding them. You still have to know what you’re doing, but It’s less risky.

You’ll know when to change the pads. Your brakes will start to go long and feel spongy. The first set of pads I had lasted 2500 kilometers, but now with the leaks I’m getting a lot less. Maybe 800 or 1000 kilometers. Sometimes even less. It’s annoying to have so many problems with the Magura brakes.
 

JayVee

Well-Known Member
Awesome thanks - just ordered a cheap bicycle tube to attempt the fix ($3 on amazon)

Any recommendation on pads? Considering trying these if the replacement schedule will be every 500-1000 miles.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00GAK340M/ref=ox_sc_act_title_5?smid=A3FRFYVV65AYFX&psc=1

Will look into burping/bleeding procedures, I've done this on a car before, so a bicycle should be doable (after a little youtube learnings)
I’ve found that the cheap Amazon pads rarely work for me, but I never tried that brand. I usually use the organic Koolstops. They have less stopping power than the metallic ones and aren’t cheap, but they keep your rotors cooler. The problem I have with some of these cheaper Amazon compounds is that they tend to quickly shred to dust. Sometimes they’re frankly a ripoff, but you need to try to find out. If you want metallic ones, BBB has good stopping power. The metal compounds are probably better for mountain biking.

Let me know how that burping went. I’m still perfecting the technique...

As for the dampener, you can take out the clip. It’s the little plastic part with the logo. I did that, drew an outline for the dampener, cut it with a cissors, and then cut out a hole in the middle. I then fitted the clip around it and put it back into the fender. It should be difficult to get the clip back in with the rubber and you have to press hard to get the fender’s u-stay to click in. But once it’s done, it’s pure bliss. I’m so happy to have gotten rid of that plastic ratlling noise...
 

Awaaja

New Member
Thanks JayVee your very good and accurate observation of Trekking Sduro 6.0 S. I have same bike since September 2017 and now after 8000 km I can confirms most of your statements but not all.
- I have no leaks with Magara MT4. Otherwise they are not as sensitive to break as some Shimano top models. Break pads are wear out unevenly. The front brake had have a terrible twitch but I think problem was in the rim not the break.
- no battery rattle with this model, previous one I have the same issue but it was easy to fix as standard maintenance procedure.
- assistant levels I rather move ECO mode nearer to ECO+ the gap between them are too big for my usage. I don's see much difference between STD and HIGH but I live quite flat area and maybe the difference are more clear in hilly terrain. The best option should add more adjustable parameters for control system, similar way as Impulse motor control where are wide range of configurable parameters.
- rack can be easily attach all sort of bags but it is very wobbly when attach even little more weight to bags. I think previous model was better.
-"Rims are top notch. " I can not agree, they are rubbish. Both rims are changed, rear one the spokes are drill through the rims and shoulders of spoke holes where broken. Front rim makes terrible twitch when breaking and immediately after the wheel was changed to DT Swiss 466d with Shimano HB-M788 the problem disappeared. The tapes of rims starts detached and blurred after 1.5 month of usage.
- Chain and drivetrain are built as standard, the first chain was broken at 2426 km, the replacement KMC X10e was weak one and chain and sprockets need to chain again at 3414 km. Second set of chain, sprockets and chain rings 7077 km.

This is my third pedelec and I ride about 10 000 km/year. My over all judgement of Trekking Sduro 6.0 S is positive, the most reliable bike I have so far. Maybe not the funniest ride but a very good trekking and commute bike. I agree with JayVee that Haibike could do excellent bike if they chosen some better quality parts for bike. But maybe the same ownership with some accessory manufacturer makes difficult to use better accessories.
 

JayVee

Well-Known Member
- I have no leaks with Magara MT4. Otherwise they are not as sensitive to break as some Shimano top models. Break pads are wear out unevenly. The front brake had have a terrible twitch but I think problem was in the rim not the break.
I've noticed that the pads wear out unevenly as well, but I've found that this can be lessened to some degree by changing the angle of the calliper housing with respect to the rotor. But I have 2 problems with this process:

1. It is more guesswork than science.
2. The bolts used by Magura to secure the calliper housing are extremely brittle (more below).

Essentially the screw/bolt is a 'safety bolt'. This means that it offers a fair amount of resistance from the first turn of the screw. However, the bolt must only be secured with 6NM of torque (according to Magura's documentation provided with the bolts). The problem is that the bolt head is a torx screw and the bolt head is very brittle. Now, I'm sure most of you can imagine what happens when you bring in your bike for a revision. A mechanic might screw this on to a torque of 10, 15, or 20 NM, and then you won't be able to get the bolts off without ruining the bolt heads. You get the bolts with the QM 40 adapter (in my case). However, I'm going to swap them for industrial strength bolts. Because the ones provided are much too fragile. They are M6 Torx T25, but they are not both the same length.

Some pics of the documentation and bolts below. Might help someone for future reference.

Documentation which came with QM40:

IMG_1283-p.JPGIMG_1284-p.JPG

Bolts and QM40:

IMG_1285-p.JPG
 

Awaaja

New Member
"this can be lessened to some degree by changing the angle of the calliper housing with respect to the rotor. "
I have same procedure with breaks, each time when take wheel off, especially the rear one, the brake caliber need to adjust again to center line. Also the regular maintenance (cleaning and lubrication of pistons) helps proper function of brakes.
DSCN0331.JPG
 

Bryan995

Member
Anyone swap out the fenders for something a bit more rigid? I just noticed my front fender is cracked and needs to be replaced. Could never get the fenders as silent as I had hoped (even after adding rubber to connection points). Is it worth considering a different brand/model as replacement?

It looks like the Haibikes (mine is a 2017 Xduro Trekking S 5.0) comes with SKS bluebell primus fender?
This is the closest one I can find.
http://www.evelostore.com/en/14152-sks-bluemels-primus-28-45mm
 
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JayVee

Well-Known Member
Rear wheel hub has broken again for the 2nd time in 5 months. It’s an XLC Evo Disk.

Edit: no actually, it was freewheel last time, and hub this time.
 
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JayVee

Well-Known Member
Hubs are usually one of the more reliable components. How has the hub broken?
The first one wouldn’t freewheel any more. This one makes a knocking noise under load. Very annoying. I'm really having a lot of issues with the bike this year.

I might swap out the whole wheel & hub. Any recommendations for something extra durable? There a lots of hills and the bike is often under load due to that.
 
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E-Wheels

Active Member
The first one wouldn’t freewheel any more. This one makes a knocking noise under load. Very annoying. I'm really having a lot of issues with the bike this year.

I might swap out the whole wheel & hub. Any recommendations for something extra durable? There a lots of hills and the bike is often under load due to that.
Rohloff
 
I just wanted to suggest another item to watch with the SKS fenders (specifically the front fender). I had been reading the forums before my Haibike arrived so I was mentally prepared for having to do the JayVee mod to the front fender. But when the bike arrived, the fender was silent. I think JayVee also said it might take 200 miles but it'll show up.

After the initial 30 or 40 miles, my rear rack loosened up and made a horrible rattle. While tightening that up, I went on an anal screw tightening tour covering the whole bike. While tightening up the front fender stays, I must have inadvertently twisted them. They are breakaway stays with "TOP" clearly printed on the top. On the next ride, I started hearing a bad plastic rattle from the front. When stopped the fender felt sold and made zero noise. But after a few rides, I figured it had to be the front fender.

Finding the SKS user manual, it looks like the length of the stays can be adjusted (hard to tell for sure as the user manual looks like it was a first grade afternoon assignment). But when looking at the stays (thinking I might try adjusting the stay length), I realized I must have turned them while on the screw tightening frenzy. The simple act of twisting them back so that "TOP" was on top completely eliminated the rattle. So before embarking on the JayVee fix, you may just want to check this as well as play with the length of the stays.
 

JayVee

Well-Known Member
I just wanted to suggest another item to watch with the SKS fenders (specifically the front fender). I had been reading the forums before my Haibike arrived so I was mentally prepared for having to do the JayVee mod to the front fender. But when the bike arrived, the fender was silent. I think JayVee also said it might take 200 miles but it'll show up.

After the initial 30 or 40 miles, my rear rack loosened up and made a horrible rattle. While tightening that up, I went on an anal screw tightening tour covering the whole bike. While tightening up the front fender stays, I must have inadvertently twisted them. They are breakaway stays with "TOP" clearly printed on the top. On the next ride, I started hearing a bad plastic rattle from the front. When stopped the fender felt sold and made zero noise. But after a few rides, I figured it had to be the front fender.

Finding the SKS user manual, it looks like the length of the stays can be adjusted (hard to tell for sure as the user manual looks like it was a first grade afternoon assignment). But when looking at the stays (thinking I might try adjusting the stay length), I realized I must have turned them while on the screw tightening frenzy. The simple act of twisting them back so that "TOP" was on top completely eliminated the rattle. So before embarking on the JayVee fix, you may just want to check this as well as play with the length of the stays.
That will no doubt help when the bike is new. But after a while the fender hole where the clip goes gets bigger and bigger. It will be interesting to see how many times you can adjust before needing to use the rubber. I suppose that if you keep the stays tight from the beginning, it might prevent the plastic hole from expanding too fast. In my case the clip can be turned sideways about 10 degrees in each direction. The hole is damaged and no amount of tightening would get rid of the wobble. It’s actually more of a plastic rattle.