Am I a hypocrite?

Thomas Croteau

New Member
Just my opinion…If it is a dedicated bike path it should be speed limited to the 20 mph normal operating of an e-bike, 28 mph bikes shouldn't be allowed on that type of path. If it is a lane attached to the normal road system, then its an open field for everything out there. A bike even at 28mph cannot exist in the car lane, so the bike lane should be acceptable…..but again a normal bike path should be speed limited to ensure everyones safety.
 

Nutella

Active Member
There is a legal definition of what constitutes an "electric bike", regardless of opinions, and the legal definition trumps all opinions. Whether you like it (or not) in my opinion, adding a throttle to an electric bike changes the basic function of the bicycle, and in my opinion moves it into a different class. I'm not sure why you believe I need to explain why people should agree with me....they're free to have their own opinion, regardless of my opinion.

Court J.
The federal CPSA that defines what can be sold as an ebike in the US doesn't mention how you switch on the motor, just 750w and 20mph. I don't buy into the argument that PAS makes a motorized bike more like a bike somehow. Soft pedaling with a 300% assist is better in some way than pedalling with no assist and using a throttle when needed? Once you add a motor to a bike, it's no longer a bike, I'm fine with that. Switch on the motor however you'd like.
 

mamerc

Member
Many Bike paths in California, they may follow a Drainage wash, Coast line, City lines. I would define them as a path shared by walkers, runners and slower travel, normally they are detached from any roads or streets, Bike lanes are "Painted" or shared with other motor vehicles either an entire lane or dedicated lane.
 

flymeaway

Well-Known Member
The federal CPSA that defines what can be sold as an ebike in the US doesn't mention how you switch on the motor, just 750w and 20mph
That's not accurate. Here is the exact verbiage from the Bill, link provided:

"For the purpose of this section, the term `low-speed electric
bicycle' means a two- or three-wheeled vehicle with fully operable
pedals and an electric motor of less than 750 watts (1 h.p.), whose
maximum speed on a paved level surface, when powered solely by such a
motor
while ridden by an operator who weighs 170 pounds, is less than 20
mph."

https://www.congress.gov/bill/107th-congress/house-bill/727/text

and that one word is all the attorneys needed to advise manufacturers that they could exceed the 20 MPH limit as long as the rider was pedaling.

CourtJ
 
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Bike_On

Well-Known Member
you said: Putting a throttle on a "bike" disqualifies it's classification as a bike.

There is a legal definition of what constitutes an "electric bike", regardless of opinions, and the legal definition trumps all opinions. Whether you like it (or not) in my opinion, adding a throttle to an electric bike changes the basic function of the bicycle, and in my opinion moves it into a different class.

Court J.
Court J-
I hear you saying that throttled ebikes are no longer considered bikes, IYO.

Thus, you are out of step with the legal definition, HR 727.

You may be consistent with the People-For-Bikes separation of classifications, but PFB still qualifiies them as bikes.
 

MLB

Well-Known Member
Court J,
I think we know and respect each other enough for me to call you out for e-snobbery. What you just said has been repeated a thousand times more by the mainstream population that says: [Putting a (Motor) on a "bike" disqualifies it's classification as a bike.] You know that ebikers hate when people make such statements, and now I am hearing the same self-protective, snobbery within the ebike community.

I just posted this on another thread:
WE, the ebike community, need to support all manufacturer classes, DIY, progressive designs, and application types. When we get protective and start eliminating "throttles" or a meager 0.5-1.5hp types, we hurt ourselves. Live together, die together.

Putting a motor on a bike is certainly a "line" separating a classes of "bikes". ALL ebikes ARE motorbikes, and ALL ebikes are MOPEDS. The next line of differentiation is not throttles, but should be the line between a valid moped and a real motorcycle. Note that throttle only, 28mph ebikes will weight, handle, accelerate, brake, etc just like a 28mph PAS, class 3 speed pedelec. There is no safety advantage to PAS. In fact , throttle is probably safer for rider awareness. If you want to throw throttles under the moped bus, then Class 3 pedelecs belong there too, and we are now set back 15 years to 20 mph limits. The upper line for ebikes is at the top of the moped class, with legit pedals and gearing. These are bikes-ebikes, not pedal-less motorcycles.

Hey , that statement get a 4 star on the hypocrite scale.... feel free to disagree.
Nope, disagree for sure. Been riding motorcycles all my life and still do. E bikes are different and throttles belong on motorcycles. JMO, and not because I don't like them, but because of the perception of the general public at large.
Total disagreement on a throttle making a rider more aware. I've SEEN people mindlessly twist a throttle and launch themselves forward when they weren't expecting it. Doesn't happen when you have to pedal to go.
 

Bike_On

Well-Known Member
Nope, disagree for sure. Been riding motorcycles all my life and still do. E bikes are different and throttles belong on motorcycles. JMO, and not because I don't like them, but because of the perception of the general public at large.
Total disagreement on a throttle making a rider more aware. I've SEEN people mindlessly twist a throttle and launch themselves forward when they weren't expecting it. Doesn't happen when you have to pedal to go.
I will concede that the throttle options adds a second dimension of input vs pedal only.

I meant awareness when entering an intersection and you can stop pedaling and pay more attention and have instant acceleration if needed. Awareness when starting from from a stop light and you need to get across the intersection faster than the pedal option may allow. As I said earlier, pedals are another form of throttles, just less responsive. And there are PAS bikes that will launch you with a light foot on the pedal. If it is a real problem with motorcycles, maybe they don't need throttles either, and can use a foot actuated throttle, lol.

MLB, your arguments against throttles on ebikes apply to the worst of riders and what people think about us. Do we want policy and law to be based upon our experiences, desires, freedoms, and needs rather than how others perceive us? Really?

People against throttles have brain block. The ebike community can have BOTH, or either. Who cares?

To insist a motorized PAS ebike is a bike, while a throttle ebike is a motorcycle...Peehew!!!

Motorcycles imply insurance, registrations, licenses, etc. Totally not needed for a class 2 bike and arguably not needed for mopeds under 30mph if speed pedelecs get a pass.
 

George S.

Well-Known Member
The ideal for me would be a programmable throttle and a programmable cruise control. I've had a lot of miles with 3 different throttles. One is very good, responsive without ever getting out of control. One was average, just mushy. The third is just too jumpy.

You need to be able to set where they kick in (like enough movement so it's precise) and how quickly they ramp up. Then you need a cruise control that maintains the output from the motor while you pedal the amount you want to pedal. The cruise controls seem pretty rough, guessing at what you want to set or just not clicking in.

If you use throttle to start, from a stop, and then start pedaling as you get up to speed, the only thing a PAS system does is configure how much power you get from the motor. The Cruise does the same thing. I wish I could just dial it in. I always figure with a PAS and nothing else, you have to downshift because you have to pedal from a stop. I don't really need this. I stay in almost the highest gear almost all the time. I can't pedal from a stop, so I use the motor. It takes maybe 1-2 seconds to get enough speed to start pedaling, and then I set the cruise. I just wish the throttle was ramping up the way I want and then I wish the cruise was more precise. I don't want a PAS, really. If you get to where they have autoshift and I'm in low gear automatically when I stop, give me a call.

I also like to take little breaks. The clouds are all lit up as the sun goes down. Just set the cruise and dreamily glide along. Or just take a little rest every now and then. I swear, you guys will give yourselves a heart attack.:cool:

It's OK, if you are having a bad day, to just go out and ride around, mostly using the cruise and the throttle. It's very relaxing. I think the limit at 20 mph kept the whole thing a lot more mellow.
 

Bike_On

Well-Known Member
Just my opinion…If it is a dedicated bike path it should be speed limited to the 20 mph normal operating of an e-bike, 28 mph bikes shouldn't be allowed on that type of path. If it is a lane attached to the normal road system, then its an open field for everything out there. A bike even at 28mph cannot exist in the car lane, so the bike lane should be acceptable…..but again a normal bike path should be speed limited to ensure everyones safety.

My 28mph speed pedelec operates perfectly fine on 20mph bike paths, because I ride less than 20mph. :)

Do we all not believe is personal responsibility and law enforcement of speed limits?

Local laws govern path use. "No Motorized Vehicles" implies any ebike or ICE dirt bike/motorcycle. "No Motor Vehicles" implies a legal definition set by the state. Know your state laws...

The ebike argument is: IF normal bicycles are allowed on the path, then so should ebikes. Class 1 and 2 bikes have legit legal arguments with 20mph limits. Class 3 and 20-30mph throttle ebikes are not treated as friendly, even though an operator can pedal on the path just like everyone else....they are bikes. A motorcycle cannot operate without the engine running. An electric motorcycle would not have pedals either.

So the BEST qualified restriction for us would be: "No Motorcycles" implying no pedals, a maximum HP (1.5-2hp limit), and a post speed limit for the path.
 

vincent

Well-Known Member
mlb i have ridden and own several lower end pas bikes that will shoot you forward with pas unexpectedly just like if you accidently twisted the throttle

my 2015 radrover is 775 watts in level 2 pas, the motor is wide open to 12-14 mph or something
level 1 is 50 watts so not very usable
that pas accelerates 10 times as fast as i do using throttle on it

so unless you want to pitch in for all of us to buy haibikes throttle has its place

george all my 8 bikes have throttle and all seem decently smooth except my radmini, that throttle is crazy touchy and a pia to use
rad has done a lot of controller changes etc and i am hoping to purchase a different controller for it so i get a better throttle control for that bike....

was hoping it was just the actual throttle but that was changed when i had some problems and it made no difference, it seems to be programmed that way

i really agree with programmable pas and throttle, would be able to make my bikes much mellower if i had that
 

Marceltt

Active Member
Well we have all kinds of opinions here , most make sence. There is one thing I got to say if you consider the elderly or people with some kind of health issues , the throttle in an ebike is very welcome so they can enjoy the ride like a regular healthy person or young of age. Myself I have two bad knees and need replacement in time , so for myself I do use the throttle about 30% of my bike ride. Make note though my evoke can only go 20 mph on throttle mode which I think is safe for everyone. Most the time I cruise at 10-15 mph and enjoy the outdoors. Without a throttle I couldn't ride my bike to far. Let's all get along and be fair.
 

Amanda

Member
I don't use my throttle, but I wanted one because I thought if I ever dropped a chain and couldn't fix it, I could get home.

Going fast scares the crap out-of me. 20m/hour is fast enough! If I shared the sidewalk or a bike lane I'd match speed with other bikers as best I can.