Another twist to throttle vs PAS ebikes....Comments wanted...

MarkF

Active Member
I see the hassle as more for DIY users than factories. Labor is very cheap in China so the added cost is nominal. I get a Bosh PAS is more expensive but not in the big scheme of things. I bet 90% of the people riding the 99% of ebikes that don't come with a throttle are happy and don't care about having a throttle. I like my throttle for all the reasons you listed but I still don't want a bike without PAS. Best of both worlds I guess.
 

Ken M

Well-Known Member
I see the hassle as more for DIY users than factories. Labor is very cheap in China so the added cost is nominal. I get a Bosh PAS is more expensive but not in the big scheme of things. I bet 90% of the people riding the 99% of ebikes that don't come with a throttle are happy and don't care about having a throttle. I like my throttle for all the reasons you listed but I still don't want a bike without PAS. Best of both worlds I guess.
That is a great point....You are certainly correct about the complexity being more of a DIYer issue than a turnkey factory problem.

My one big issue with torque based PAS (these is the top parameter utilized by all the big motor makers) is that weaker riders sometimes can not put the ebike in an assist mode that provide full power no matter how hard they try. This impacts people with bad knees or handicaps but for average riders they work great. But if I'm installing a kit I have no clue why someone wouldn't just go the easy route and go throttle only (saves money and time and you'll be able to install what you purchased).

I like that Bafang has there new mid drives supporting both PAS and throttle as that is going to take some market share from the bigger motor names. They have been marketing against throttles but my guess is two years from now Bosch, Yamaha, TQ, Brose, etc. will all have a throttle mode option. They'll then claim they were always planning to do this for the US consumer which is total BS but they'll say it anyway (marketing and truthfullness seem to be polar opposites).
 
My bike has both PAS and throttle and I would never want a throttle only bike. I like the assist to do it's job and I will add throttle as needed when going up a grade or just to give my knees a break. I think if I only had a throttle I would use it more as a throttle only and not as a help like PAS does. To easy to get lazy with a throttle only and I don't want to be fiddling with moving my throttle all the time to adjust the assist as needed. I use PAS 95% of the time but would not want a bike that doesn't have a throttle.
Previously as a road bike riding enthusiast, my view would be the same as yours is. Even on my daughter's comfort bike, I position bars and seat so I can be almost in road bike position and pedal strongly, even though the geometry isn't quite right :) I only feel good and strong pedalling in that posture
Time changes things. Now, as getting old and afflicted with problems not yet severe, but troublesome,
I think I need to sit way back up straight on an easy saddle, to try to avoid long term pressure and bouncing the lugnuts around all day, and avoid long term wear and tear on my hands and also knees. Combined, in upright posture, pedalling power enjoyment is very reduced and physio-medical needs are becoming front and centre.
My guess is: that can be one way that a person becomes not so much enamoured of the PAS idea.
Also,
I don't want to be fiddling with moving my throttle all the time to adjust the assist as needed
Exactly, but more: I don't want to have to hold the throttle on at all after I get up to speed.
 
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6zfshdb

Well-Known Member
Exercise, like many other things in life, is a matter of self control. Just because your bike has a throttle doesn't mean you have to use it. I see little difference between using a throttle and "ghost pedaling" (pedaling without effort) a PAS only bike in cadence mode. either way, you get little or no exercise.

This applies to bikes with throttle only, PAS only or both. If you want exercise, turn off the assist altogether. Ride until you get your workout then turn on the assist and enjoy the rest of your ride.
 

MarkF

Active Member
I was a tile installer for 20 years and now I have bad knees. I wish I didn't need a throttle on my bike but I do. I am sure I am like many others with knee problems. But I can peddle most of the time but my knees will tell me when there not happy. So a mixture of ghost peddling and throttle only allows my knees to recover. If it wasn't for this, I would not have an ebike in my life. So to say one or the other is better, doesn't work for me. I want both so I can enjoy riding a bike. My bike didn't come with a throttle but it was an option to add on to the price. I think that was a good way to do it so people that don't want a throttle don't have to pay for one and then take it off. Bosh and others that don't offer a throttle option are missing out on a lot of sales from people like me. And that sucks because bikes with throttles are a rare site indeed.
 

Sfm629

New Member
I’ve Had 8 spine, 3 shoulder and 1 knee surgeries. That translates into about 2-1/2 years of recovery. I just received my first ebike. It has both throttle and pas and I use both. Wouldn’t have it any other way.
 

Ken M

Well-Known Member
I tend to not use throttle or PAS until I get to about 15kph because those 10 seconds are not that bad and get the heart pumping then the a hub motor is really at a speed it's efficient and I'll use the throttle to provide enough assist to cruise at 25 - 45kph. I know many people mention using the throttle for faster starts but that is when motors are most inefficient. If you have a handicap I understand you may need the throttle go help start.
 
I have two Ebikes. One with PAS and throttle and a mid drive without. I find the throttle very useful when getting moving from a stop if I want to get across an intersection in a hurry or in rough terrain. Find myself reaching for it on the bike without it all the time. So yes, I think it’s a handy accessory.
 
Alright. Now that I have a ready made ebike with rear geared hub motor, throttle, and cadence PAS, and a few days of riding done, I have something to add.
Before, I was going to build a stealth bike, but uncertainty stalled me out - I had never ridden an ebike. Simplification was very important...I didn't want to get stuck with a crank problem or whatever, during the build, and fewer parts and wires and connectors means simpler for my first ebike. I got a store-bought non-stealthy bike. My biggest concern is theft, now, but I'm dealing with that properly.
So on with the throttle and PAS.
I like the cadence PAS very much after picking up some techniques for shifting gears, changing PAS levels and pedalling, all in a mix. I don't use the throttle much but it is very important for being able to hit that to get the fastest full boost when necessary, for example doing a left turn off a multi-lane road. That is handy because not only does it get the job done in timely fashion, I also haven't altered my settings or gears.
So that is for city riding. For long haul like on a highway trip I'd probably want to mod the throttle to keep it where I want it most of the time.
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Before doing any mods on the throttle, for covering long distances at speed (assuming you aren't concerned about wiping out your battery) try setting it at the highest PAS level, then "ghost" pedaling, where you are pedaling, but not adding much of your energy to propel the bike. Just going through the motions.
 

Feliz

Well-Known Member
I have bikes with both and don't know why it matters or why anyone would care. When I purchase an ebike I don't even consider if it has a throttle or not. I'm happy riding PAS or throttle or both.
 
Before doing any mods on the throttle, for covering long distances at speed (assuming you aren't concerned about wiping out your battery) try setting it at the highest PAS level, then "ghost" pedaling, where you are pedaling, but not adding much of your energy to propel the bike. Just going through the motions.
Thank you, Sir. That's actually most of what I've been doing, but today I tried riding more slowly and pedaling more. Battery usage was atrocious as of this morning because I was pushing it to top speed and I might as well have been using the throttle for the amount of work I saved the bike from doing.
But now I'm making the ride smooth using different pedalling and gear shifing styles, cutting PAS to 0 for coming to a stop and gearing to low without getting PAS surges from every gear change as I pedal a bit :) So it's much more smooth now and I may do more effort for take off
and limit my speed to 20 kmh. As soon as I changed style, battery usage went way way down. And the thuds were much less strong.
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Yup. Give yourself some time to mess with it. Sounds like you're making good progress. A lot of us, that are riding for recreational purposes, find PAS 1 offers all the assist we need under most conditions, and when the proper gear is selected, allowing even just a little effort of our own added to the equation, find the battery range can be extended to the point the bike's battery can last longer than our bodies can!