Anyone put a bigger chainring on their Rover?

thatdude902

Active Member
Ok, a little bit of OCD kicked in and I had to finish this mod. I don't have a bike stand so I hoisted the bike up a few inches using a rope tied to the garage ceiling. The split tool worked perfectly, the old freewheel came off easily. I had left enough spurs in splitting the tool that it still fit in to the old freewheel tightly. That was uneventful actually. Getting the wheel back on the bike was harder work, especially without a workstand. Anyway, here's a picture of the shinny new freewheel and the old. Note that the old looks smaller only because of the angle of the shot, they are both 28 at the largest cog.

I'll see if I have a chance to test it out this weekend.

2017-03-24 19.56.51.jpg
 

thatdude902

Active Member
Just had a chance to test out the new freewheel gearing. First, I had to re-adjust the rear derailleur. It looks like the DNP freewheel is slightly offset, every gear is ~2 to 3 mm further away from the hub. I couldn't shift to the 11 t gear until I adjusted the derailleur.

The 11 t gear is very usable. 24.9 mph came quickly, with similar effort as it used to take to get to maybe 21 -22 mph on the old freewheel. I was still feeling the motor assist at top speed. So if you have a flat safe road, you can cruise at 24.9 mph. Out of all the things I did with my Rover, this might be my favorite mod yet.

For some who may not know, the default limit for the Radrover is 20 mph, but you can set the limit to 40 kph on the settings menu, which corresponds to 24.85 mph.
 

RyanConway

New Member
I replaced both the freewheel and the crankset and chainring on my radwagon-

One thing on those DNP freewheels is you I would DEFINITELY
put some lock tight on the lock nut (lockring) and screw it in firm but not so tight to strip it. It's a weak point of the design IMO and I had one fall apart on me. There is a tool for it that locks into the little circular detents on the lock nut, or you can probably even get it with some larger needle nose pliers. This isn't the freewheel threads, but the threads that hold the cogs on.

The crankset was pretty easy too, I got a decent bcd130 FSA with 175mm arms used on ebay for about $20 and then one of these 54t chainrings-

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BCD130-chainring-narrow-wide-NW-teeth-Circle-single-speed-chain-ring-50-52T-58T-/282274548138?var=&hash=item41b8dfc9aa:m:mN6cDUJQMuZ3f_K7e4JA_Dw

I really like the NW chainring, much less chain slap and on my wagon I was having some issues dropping chains between the 11t cog and the dropout, it was just wide enough for the chain to wedge in there real tight. I haven't dropped the chain since changing it out.
 

Lost

Active Member
I replaced both the freewheel and the crankset and chainring on my radwagon-

One thing on those DNP freewheels is you I would DEFINITELY
put some lock tight on the lock nut (lockring) and screw it in firm but not so tight to strip it. It's a weak point of the design IMO and I had one fall apart on me. There is a tool for it that locks into the little circular detents on the lock nut, or you can probably even get it with some larger needle nose pliers. This isn't the freewheel threads, but the threads that hold the cogs on.

The crankset was pretty easy too, I got a decent bcd130 FSA with 175mm arms used on ebay for about $20 and then one of these 54t chainrings-

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BCD130-chainring-narrow-wide-NW-teeth-Circle-single-speed-chain-ring-50-52T-58T-/282274548138?var=&hash=item41b8dfc9aa:m:mN6cDUJQMuZ3f_K7e4JA_Dw

I really like the NW chainring, much less chain slap and on my wagon I was having some issues dropping chains between the 11t cog and the dropout, it was just wide enough for the chain to wedge in there real tight. I haven't dropped the chain since changing it out.
So with the bigger ring, you need to get a different crankset? I'm confused. (Not surprising for me though!)
 

RyanConway

New Member
So with the bigger ring, you need to get a different crankset? I'm confused. (Not surprising for me though!)
Yeah, at least on the wagon the chainring was riveted to the stock crankset so you can't replace only the stock ring. I haven't seen the rover up close though to know if that's how it is.
 

Lost

Active Member
I find myself almost always having it in high gear. With the new setup, are you for the most part in the middle of the cluster now?
 

RyanConway

New Member
For me I put a 54t chainring, and a 11-28 freewheel 0n my radwagon, but it also has another throttle only hubmotor on the front. With this setup 11t cog is only a comfortable cadence going down hills. With the stock controller 'pulling the plug' at 25mph the 54 would be too big I think for an 11t. But if you kept the stock freewheel I think 54t is probably a good size...On the Radwagon you can set the wheel size much smaller and it does make the bike go a little faster before the controller backs off.

I'm (today actually) working on replacing my stock motor with a q128c on the rear for a few reasons. One is I don't want the artificial speed limit, I don't plan to go too much faster than 25 but I don't like the way the rad controller pulls the power. Also I'd like to be able to run at 30mph for a couple sections of my commute for a block or 2 so I can hop in traffic on a bigger blvd, and then also because the geared motors (like the rover) accelerate faster. I have a lot of stop and go commuting so the acceleration is nice.
 

Tom899

Member
I have a new Mini, less than 10 miles on it. I think the bike is great and am really going to enjoy it! Like the rest of you I think it needs higher gearing. For me it's not so much that I want to go faster than 20-24mph, I'm not comfortable at cadence speeds above 80. I have an electric pedal assist recumbent trike that I put on a Schlumpf High-Speed drive. It is great! It increases both low and high gearing dramatically. I usually just leave it in the higher gear setting because it's flat where I live. I'm wondering if one will fit in the bottom bracket of the Mini? I'm going to research it. Here's my review of it on my trike. http://www.bentrideronline.com/messageboard/showthread.php?t=126797
And here is what it is all about. http://www.schlumpf.ch/hp/schlumpf/faq.getriebe.engl.htm#A
The disadvantage is cost.
 

Tom899

Member
I have a new Mini, less than 10 miles on it. I think the bike is great and am really going to enjoy it! Like the rest of you I think it needs higher gearing. For me it's not so much that I want to go faster than 20-24mph, I'm not comfortable at cadence speeds above 80. I have an electric pedal assist recumbent trike that I put on a Schlumpf High-Speed drive. It is great! It increases both low and high gearing dramatically. I usually just leave it in the higher gear setting because it's flat where I live. I'm wondering if one will fit in the bottom bracket of the Mini? I'm going to research it. Here's my review of it on my trike. http://www.bentrideronline.com/messageboard/showthread.php?t=126797
And here is what it is all about. http://www.schlumpf.ch/hp/schlumpf/faq.getriebe.engl.htm#A
The disadvantage is cost.
Well, in the short time researching I did a measurement on the Mini bottom bracket and it's about 100 mm wide, which I think is way to wide for any of the Schlumpfs made. So far I come up with a spec of 68 up to 72mm and BSA size.
 

Doug Devine

New Member
Shimano cassettes and freewheels use the same tool.
Unfortunately, this is not true.

I just drilled my Shimano cassette removal tool (to fit around the 15mm Rover axle) and hacksawed it in half (cuz the 18mm axle bolt is too wide for a tool to slip over) and it doesn't work because the tool is too big. Just slightly. Grrrrrrr....

The Park Tool website (http://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help/cassette-and-freewheel-removal-and-installation#article-section-2) makes reference to three, 12-spline Shimano freewheel removal tools: FR-1.2, FR-1.3, and FR-5.2. The FR-1.3 has a listed diameter of 22.6mm and the FR-5.2 is 23.4mm. The diameter for the FR-1.2 isn't given but it does say that certain type of freewheels require this tool...yet it's discontinued and its page refers one to the FR-1.3. Kinda confusing. Especially since it appears that the Rover's freewheel looks like it meets the criteria for needing the FR-1.2. I'm guessing that the FR-1.2 is the same diameter as the FR-1.3 but with deeper splineage.
 

windmill

Active Member
Unfortunately, this is not true.

I just drilled my Shimano cassette removal tool (to fit around the 15mm Rover axle) and hacksawed it in half (cuz the 18mm axle bolt is too wide for a tool to slip over) and it doesn't work because the tool is too big. Just slightly. Grrrrrrr....

The Park Tool website (http://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help/cassette-and-freewheel-removal-and-installation#article-section-2) makes reference to three, 12-spline Shimano freewheel removal tools: FR-1.2, FR-1.3, and FR-5.2. The FR-1.3 has a listed diameter of 22.6mm and the FR-5.2 is 23.4mm. The diameter for the FR-1.2 isn't given but it does say that certain type of freewheels require this tool...yet it's discontinued and its page refers one to the FR-1.3. Kinda confusing. Especially since it appears that the Rover's freewheel looks like it meets the criteria for needing the FR-1.2. I'm guessing that the FR-1.2 is the same diameter as the FR-1.3 but with deeper splineage.
My reference was to contemporary freewheels, and cassettes. There's several obsolete, classic, vintage, and oddball sizes.
 

Doug Devine

New Member
My reference was to contemporary freewheels, and cassettes. There's several obsolete, classic, vintage, and oddball sizes.
Well, Rovers fall into the obsolete/classic/vintage/oddball category because the contemporary-sized tool doesn't work. It's strange because I've been using that tool on my other bikes for over a decade. But my newest bike (2016 Rover) uses an old-timey sizing??? Go figure.

Btw, I wasn't trying to denigrate you...I just didn't want anybody to make the same mistake I did.
 

windmill

Active Member
Well, Rovers fall into the obsolete/classic/vintage/oddball category because the contemporary-sized tool doesn't work. It's strange because I've been using that tool on my other bikes for over a decade. But my newest bike (2016 Rover) uses an old-timey sizing??? Go figure.

Btw, I wasn't trying to denigrate you...I just didn't want anybody to make the same mistake I did.
Rad power bikes uses standard Shimano freewheels on all their bikes, and my park tool works fine on them. Perhaps you're not aware they can sometimes be a tight fit with a new freewheel, and need a little coaxing? When I retrofitted a Shimano mega range freewheel, I needed to tap it in with a small soft blow hammer.
If not, your issue must be particular to your tool or freewheel.

FYI, This tool will work without modification. https://www.amazon.com/DNP-Freewheel-Remover-Epoch/dp/B007AI1LGW/ref=sr_1_26?ie=UTF8&qid=1496844853&sr=8-26&keywords=freewheel+tool
 

Doug Devine

New Member
Rad power bikes uses standard Shimano freewheels on all their bikes, and my park tool works fine on them. Perhaps you're not aware they can sometimes be a tight fit with a new freewheel, and need a little coaxing? If not, your issue must be particular to your tool or freewheel.
Do you work for Rad? How do you know they use standard Shimano freewheels on all their bikes?

Do you have a Rover? I thought I remember reading you had a Wagon and that its axle doesn't have wires protruding from it like the Rover. Thus, what works for you won't necessarily work for Rover owners.

"Tight fit" issue? Sure, the torquing may need some muscle behind it but the tool itself should fit comfortably without any coaxing. That's kinda the key characteristic of the correct tool.

Whatever the explanation is, the opening for the freewheel removal tool on my bike is ~22.8mm. The standard tool, the FR-5.2, has a diameter of 23.4mm and therefore is too big for my bike. But there is a tool with a diameter of 22.6mm, the FR-1.3.

Without modification?! So, it has a 20.5mm thru-hole? That's what it would need to work without modification so it can slip over the 18mm hex nut. Its description says it can fit a 14mm axle so I'm betting a modification is necessary.

I suspect your wheel and mine are significantly different.
 

windmill

Active Member
Rad power bikes uses standard Shimano freewheels on all their bikes, and my park tool works fine on them. Perhaps you're not aware they can be a tight fit when new, and need a little coaxing? If not, your issue must be particular to your tool or freewheel.

FYI, This tool will work without modification. https://www.amazon.com/DNP-Freewheel-Remover-Epoch/dp/B007AI1LGW/ref=sr_1_26?ie=UTF8&qid=1496844853&sr=8-26&keywords=freewheel+tool
Do you work for Rad? How do you know they use standard Shimano freewheels on all their bikes?

Do you have a Rover? I thought I remember reading you had a Wagon and that its axle doesn't have wires protruding from it like the Rover. Thus, what works for you won't necessarily work for Rover owners.

"Tight fit" issue? Sure, the torquing may need some muscle behind it but the tool itself should fit comfortably without any coaxing. That's kinda the key characteristic of the correct tool.

Whatever the explanation is, the opening for the freewheel removal tool on my bike is ~22.8mm. The standard tool, the FR-5.2, has a diameter of 23.4mm and therefore is too big for my bike. But there is a tool with a diameter of 22.6mm, the FR-1.3.


Without modification?! So, it has a 20.5mm thru-hole? That's what it would need to work without modification so it can slip over the 18mm hex nut. Its description says it can fit a 14mm axle so I'm betting a modification is necessary.

I suspect your wheel and mine are significantly different.
When I purchased my bike I noticed that the freewheel wasn't lettered Shimano like most in the shop so I enquired, they assured me every freewheel they use is Shimano, and I was able to confirm that when I removed it as they're marked on the back.

The tool I linked is the one recommend by several folks on this forum for use on the bikes with the wire in the axle like the Rover and mini.

Sorry I can't be of more help, but your situation seems to be unique.

BTW, the Park Tools FR 1.3 is the correct tool for contemporary cassette and freewheels.
 
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thatdude902

Active Member
On the Rover, that tool isn't going to get pass the nut holding the wheel without splitting it. And you can't remove the nut because the hole on the nut is smaller than the connector for the wire. Here's what I had to do to mine when I posted about changing the freewheel earlier in this thread.2017-06-07 19.17.23.jpg
 

windmill

Active Member
On the Rover, that tool isn't going to get pass the nut holding the wheel without splitting it. And you can't remove the nut because the hole on the nut is smaller than the connector for the wire. Here's what I had to do to mine when I posted about changing the freewheel earlier in this thread.View attachment 16876
That's interesting, other folks have said the DNP tool will fit over the nut. I've been toying with the idea of trying a geared hub, it would be nice to get a definitive answer.