Auto-Tuners/De-Limiters - Regret it or Best Decision Ever?

The duke

Active Member
20mph. That's what we, Class 1 ebikers are stuck with as far as assisted top speed goes.

We've heard the warnings:

You'll avoid your warranty
You'll burn out your motor
Torque at those speeds will be so minimal to be unnoticeable
You're possibly breaking the law
Your operating your ebike in a way it wasn't intended

After all those negatives, the idea of getting a tuning boost while pumping at 22 or 27mph is very attractive indeed.

I'd like to hear from the de-limiters out there. Did you burn out your motor? Did you try to take your ebike in for some unrelated warranty item, only to have it denied because the manufacturer was able to detect your use of a tuning device? Did your computer screen blow up? Did the cops pull you over?

Or did you have the greatest time ever?
 

Over50

Well-Known Member
I've been using the Bad Ass 4.0 for Bosch on my Haibike for commuting since about May. The bike was coming up on 2 years since my purchase so I wasn't too worried about warranty. No chance of motor burnout in that short time. For me, it generally means a difference of cruising at 21-25 mph vs 18-19 mph. I generally have the same average speeds that I have with my class 3 motor (around 17 mph). My top speed isn't much over the top speed I had on the bike prior to adding the tuner (maybe around 29 mph on the downslope of bridge/overpass). No regrets so far and I haven't taken the bike in for a software update since I added it (of course I will remove the box when I take it in). I was considering trading it in (my LBS takes trades) when the new Allant+ arrives but I was discussing the use of the box with the LBS and this is causing some reluctance to take the bike on trade. I might opt for private sale with full disclosure on the use of the tuner. Cops haven't pulled me over. One time before I added the box, I had a cop pull in behind me on a residential boulevard and follow me for about 2 blocks at slow speed. He had plenty of room to pass so I definitely think he was tailing me. I thought I was going to be pulled over but I was pedaling constantly and only around 20 mph. I don't know what his deal was. After following for a while he pulled out and passed me. I think he had been tailing me to assess whether I was riding a legal bike. In 3 years of e-bike commuting, I've sat at red lights next to city cops, suburban cops and state troopers. Apart from that one incident, I can't say I've noticed a single officer ever pay me the slightest bit of attention.
 

Ebiker01

Active Member
I've been using the Bad Ass 4.0 for Bosch on my Haibike for commuting since about May. The bike was coming up on 2 years since my purchase so I wasn't too worried about warranty. No chance of motor burnout in that short time. For me, it generally means a difference of cruising at 21-25 mph vs 18-19 mph. I generally have the same average speeds that I have with my class 3 motor (around 17 mph). My top speed isn't much over the top speed I had on the bike prior to adding the tuner (maybe around 29 mph on the downslope of bridge/overpass). No regrets so far and I haven't taken the bike in for a software update since I added it (of course I will remove the box when I take it in). I was considering trading it in (my LBS takes trades) when the new Allant+ arrives but I was discussing the use of the box with the LBS and this is causing some reluctance to take the bike on trade. I might opt for private sale with full disclosure on the use of the tuner. Cops haven't pulled me over. One time before I added the box, I had a cop pull in behind me on a residential boulevard and follow me for about 2 blocks at slow speed. He had plenty of room to pass so I definitely think he was tailing me. I thought I was going to be pulled over but I was pedaling constantly and only around 20 mph. I don't know what his deal was. After following for a while he pulled out and passed me. I think he had been tailing me to assess whether I was riding a legal bike. In 3 years of e-bike commuting, I've sat at red lights next to city cops, suburban cops and state troopers. Apart from that one incident, I can't say I've noticed a single officer ever pay me the slightest bit of attention.

The majority of the police force is very positive as far as Ev’s go and ebikes.
The ones who get to drive the Tesla or the Dept. who ordered them really are on our side. As long as not going 40mph on a DIY concoction.
 

FlatSix911

Active Member
The majority of the police force is very positive as far as Ev’s go and ebikes.
The ones who get to drive the Tesla or the Dept. who ordered them really are on our side. As long as not going 40mph on a DIY concoction.
The police should definitely be in favor of faster eBikes if they are riding Delfast’s Top Cop electric bicycle... no speed hack is needed ;)

This 50 MPH police-edition electric bicycle could replace cop e-motorcycles - Electrek

Electric motorcycles are increasingly entering police fleets for patrol use, but now we could be seeing electric bicycles entering the mix as well, thanks to the new Delfast Top Cop e-bike. Delfast Top Cop electric police bike Delfast’s Top Cop electric bicycle is based on the company’s Top 2.0...
electrek.co
electrek.co


In what will surely divide the e-cycling world, Delfast has updated its latest high-speed electric bicycle. The Top 2.0 is a high power, 50 mph (80 km/h) e-bike that pushes the limits of electric bicycles. The Top 2.0 from Delfast is the most recent update to the company’s high-speed electric bike.

The original Top electric bicycle from Delfast featured a 3 kW motor. Now the upgraded Top 2.0 will sport a higher power 5 kW rear hub motor. That increased power should help the e-bike hit its top speed of 50 mph (80 km/h) more quickly. Delfast claims that the new acceleration will be “able to compete with most regular cars on a quarter-mile distance.”


Energy for that powerful motor is supplied from a massive 72V 48Ah battery. That’s nearly 3.5 kWh of energy.

1573871365903.png
 

The duke

Active Member
I've been using the Bad Ass 4.0 for Bosch on my Haibike for commuting since about May. The bike was coming up on 2 years since my purchase so I wasn't too worried about warranty. No chance of motor burnout in that short time. For me, it generally means a difference of cruising at 21-25 mph vs 18-19 mph. I generally have the same average speeds that I have with my class 3 motor (around 17 mph). My top speed isn't much over the top speed I had on the bike prior to adding the tuner (maybe around 29 mph on the downslope of bridge/overpass). No regrets so far and I haven't taken the bike in for a software update since I added it (of course I will remove the box when I take it in). I was considering trading it in (my LBS takes trades) when the new Allant+ arrives but I was discussing the use of the box with the LBS and this is causing some reluctance to take the bike on trade. I might opt for private sale with full disclosure on the use of the tuner. Cops haven't pulled me over. One time before I added the box, I had a cop pull in behind me on a residential boulevard and follow me for about 2 blocks at slow speed. He had plenty of room to pass so I definitely think he was tailing me. I thought I was going to be pulled over but I was pedaling constantly and only around 20 mph. I don't know what his deal was. After following for a while he pulled out and passed me. I think he had been tailing me to assess whether I was riding a legal bike. In 3 years of e-bike commuting, I've sat at red lights next to city cops, suburban cops and state troopers. Apart from that one incident, I can't say I've noticed a single officer ever pay me the slightest bit of attention.
If you didnt disclose to the LBS, would there be telltale signs (excessive wear, software glitching, etc) to give away that you had the badass box on prior?
 

Browneye

Active Member
Utilize one if it works for you. No one is going to take your birthday away! 🤣

When I feel I'm done with warranty - no longer need it, will do the crank-mag hack. I tried one and the Yamaha really goes. Smokes the brakes if anything. And messes with the smartphone app values, but a separate cycle display could be utilized for speed and distance. Excess speed will suck battery range big-time.

I hit the limiter all the time, but will likely never go much over 20 anyway. I would just have to wait for the wife cuz she doesn't ride that fast anyway.

The Bafang conversion on hers can be set for max speed all the way to 32mph - which is just stupid-fast on that bike.

The danger and risks are real, just not the ones you list. :cool:
 
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Alaskan

Well-Known Member
I have the bikespeed rs on my Bosch CX powered bike. I ride it two or three times a week, putting around 35-50 miles on it for each ride. The bike has just over 3,000 miles on it with the delimiter. Taking it easy in tour mode, I ride around 20mph. On every ride I do two or three 5 mile sprints in EMTB at 24-27 mph and with a higher cadence can sustain 30-32mph for a mile or so. I put a larger front chain ring (18 tooth versus 15 tooth) on the bike to take advantage of the extra speed and also put a cassette with a larger (46 tooth versus 42 tooth) low gear to recapture climbing ability lost with the larger chain ring. On numerous occasions I have exceeded 40 mph going down hills while still pedaling. At 42mph I am spinning at 115 rpm.

I have had no problems with the motor overheating, never been pulled over by cops, my Nyon display gives me accurate speed information. I love it and would never go back to a 20mph limit. That said, the new Bosch gen 4 speed motor now has the same 75nm maximum torque as the CX so there is really no reason to buy a CX and add a dongle anymore.
 

Mikk

New Member
I got the ePlus advanced chip for my Bosch performance line (gen 2 I think? Before they split the performance line into cruise and speed). Overall I'm really happy and I mainly cruise at 21-24 instead of 18 (like @Over50 mentioned). I posted my review/thoughts of the ePlus here:

I had the additional benefit of knowing that my performance line motor was also on the Trek XM700+ which came from Bosch with a 28mph limit. There is no mechanical difference between our generation of performance line motors so I basically know my mid drive is good to 28mph. Further, on flat ground, in turbo mode, I can go about 25-26 if I'm helping quite a bit. Only with a tailwind can I really get up to 28+mph. So effectively that Trek can ride in turbo mode all the time and it had a warranty so I can infer that I am not going to 'damage' my motor. Relatively sound logic there, right??
 

Alaskan

Well-Known Member
Also, it is important to be aware of the fact that there are serious differences in the way class 1 and class 3 bikes are regulated in Europe. Class 3 bikes are regulated as vehicles not bikes. They have to be registered and licensed with plates on display. They have to be insured like any other vehicle, cannot use bike paths and must travel on roads. Putting a delimitier on a class 1 effectively makes it a class 3. The EU has regulations that require manufacturers to program their motors to detect the use of speed delimitiers. This is pretty easy, if you think about it. If the bikes motor shows engagement at speeds in excess of the class 1 limit, that equals tampering. It is less about pushing the motor beyond its safe operational limits than it is about regulatory compliance.
 

Over50

Well-Known Member
If you didnt disclose to the LBS, would there be telltale signs (excessive wear, software glitching, etc) to give away that you had the badass box on prior?
I don't think there would be telltale signs in terms of drivetrain wear. I think what they would see is in the Bosch diagnostics. Prior to the box, they might see I was riding 50% in Tour and average speeds around 15 (for example). After the box, I'd have a similar percent Tour but speeds would drop (the box drops the speed readings roughly by 1/2). I think it would be pretty obvious in the software diagnostics that some alteration had occurred. Anyway, I have a really good relationship with the LBS so I'd never not disclose something like that. One of the shop employees wants to buy the box from me if I don't sell it with the bike.