Best dual-suspension trail bike...

What is best natural-feeling stealth-looking technical-capable trail-bike?

  • Haibike XDuro NDuro Pro

  • Lapierre Overvolt AM 900+

  • Moustache Samedi 27 Trail Limited

  • Rotwild R.X+ FS

  • Scott E-Genius 700 Plus Tuned

  • Scott E-Spark 700 Plus TUNED

  • Specialized Turbo Levo FSR

  • Other


Results are only viewable after voting.
#1
I ride technical trails on a regular trail bike (Giant Trance X 0 29er). I love the bike. I would also like an e-bike with the most trail capability.

My only experience is that I converted an old hard-tail to an e-bike with a 1500 watt pedelec hub-motor and 1000 wh battery behind the seat, and it was fun on the street, but it was terrible on trails. Unridable really, due to the weight and balance of the battery and motor. Also, the direct drive would not be good for off-road climbing. Battey and motor should be mid-bike and as low as possible, and battery should be about a 500 wh. I sold off the parts.

So I have decided a few things that I want in my next e-bike.

1. Must have a mid-drive - like Shimano, Yamaha, Bosche, or Brose.

2. Must have stealth look with well integrated motor and battery.

3. Must have torque-sensing and a pedal feeling be as transparent as possible without awkward surging.

4. 250, 350, 500, or 750 watts are all ok. I don't mind at all if it is 250 as that will be lighter, save battery power, and I am happy to pedal.

5. 15 or 28 mph are both ok. I would prefer 28, but not if the bike is worse in other ways.

6. Prefer compatibility with 3.0 inch tires (650B+).

These are the bikes I have found so far that look like what I want, but I have not ridden any of them. Which are the most trail-capable and have the most natural pedal feeling?

Giant Full-E+
Haibike XDuro NDuro Pro $5,800
Lapierre Overvolt AM 900+ £6400
Moustache Samedi 27 Trail Limited £7600
Nicolai ION EBOXX
Rotwild R.X+ FS €6,999
Scott E-Genius 700 Plus Tuned $5,400
Scott E-Spark 700 Plus TUNED £6,099
Specialized Turbo Levo FSR (Four trim levels - $4500 to $9500)
 
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Ravi Kempaiah

Well-Known Member
#2
I ride technical trails on a regular trail bike (Giant Trance X 0 29er). I love the bike. I would also like an e-bike with the most trail capability.

My only experience is that I converted an old hard-tail to an e-bike with a 1500 watt pedelec hub-motor and 1000 wh battery behind the seat, and it was fun on the street, but it was terrible on trails. Unridable really, due to the weight and balance of the battery and motor. Also, the direct drive would not be good for off-road climbing. Battey and motor should be mid-bike and as low as possible, and battery should be about a 500 wh. I sold off the parts.

So I have decided a few things that I want in my next e-bike.

1. Must have a mid-drive - like Shimano, Yamaha, Bosche, or Brose.

2. Must have stealth look with well integrated motor and battery.

3. Must have torque-sensing and a pedal feeling be as transparent as possible without awkward surging.

4. 250, 350, 500, or 750 watts are all ok. I don't mind at all if it is 250 as that will be lighter, save battery power, and I am happy to pedal.

5. 15 or 28 mph are both ok. I would prefer 28, but not if the bike is worse in other ways.

6. Prefer compatibility with 3.0 inch tires (650B+).

These are the bikes I have found so far that look like what I want, but I have not ridden any of them. Which are the most trail-capable and have the most natural pedal feeling?

Scott E-Spark 700 Plus TUNED £6,099
Haibike XDuro NDuro Pro $5,800
Lapierre Overvolt AM 900+ £6400
Moustache Samedi 27 Trail Limited £7600
Rotwild R.X+ FS €6,999
Scott E-Genius 700 Plus Tuned $5,400
Specialized Turbo Levo FSR (Four trim levels - $4500 to $9500)
All are great bikes!
It comes down to what you personally like the best.
 
#3
If you are looking at bikes with those price points, why not consider the Haibike Xduro full seven carbon 10.0.
You would be buying absolute top shelf components on a CF frame and wheel combo which should offer outstanding handling on the trails and a very low 17.5 Kg weight to make the climbs easier still.
The MSRP is pretty high, but, the street pice is typically 40 to almost 50 percent off, which brings it in line with some of the other models you were comparing.
http://www.haibike.com/en-US/US/bikes/355/2017-xduro-full-seven-carbon-10-0?variant=3854011740

You can save some money and pick the Xduro full seven 8.0.
The bike would be about 4.5 pounds heavier and the componentry is a cut below the 10.0 version, but, the discounts off MSRP would be similar.
http://www.haibike.com/en-US/US/bikes/354/2017-xduro-full-seven-carbon-8-0?variant=3853611740
 
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#4
The Haibikes that came with 3" tires had the "Plus" designation in 2016. For example, my Haibike Sduro FullSeven AllMtn Plus is bike with a Yamaha motor (Sduro), full suspension and 27.5" wheels (FullSeven), designed for mountain riding (AllMtn) with fatty 3" tires (Plus). It would be wise to get a frame that has been designed for 3" tires; there is no assurance that 3" tires fit narrower frames. I love my fatty tires and my Haibike!
 

EddieJ

Well-Known Member
#5
Ravi is correct and I very much doubt that many take their bikes off the highway, let alone exploring a bikes potential and use of suspension.

For anyone that owns an FS bike, the best one is the one that they are sitting on.

I'd suggest that one of the major deciding factors, is dealer location and support. The rest you can just figure out by riding and trying few.

I also see articles such a best emtb of the year in e-magazines and sites as a complete waste of time, and very in accurate in fact. Without percentage of sales ratio incorporated into the voting system, there is always going to be bias towards the biggest selling brand, and the biggest selling brand/brands certainly don't necessarily make the best bikes.
 
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RoadWrinkle

Active Member
#6
Obviously you realize none of the big manufacturers are going to have anything above 350-500 watt motors with 48 volt batteries size. HPC in So Cal builds eMTB's with more balanced designs and the huge wattage and voltage you might be used to. These bikes are still heavy with all that battery; and there is the issue of whether or not you are concerned with being "street legal" (even on public trails). When you look at the range of good quality eMTBs available, you will see the designs, components, and drive systems are all similar, so its clear these are the best ways to build them to date.
 

Bike_On

Well-Known Member
#8
I ride technical trails on a regular trail bike (Giant Trance X 0 29er). I love the bike. I would also like an e-bike with the most trail capability.

My only experience is that I converted an old hard-tail to an e-bike with a 1500 watt pedelec hub-motor and 1000 wh battery behind the seat, and it was fun on the street, but it was terrible on trails. Unridable really, due to the weight and balance of the battery and motor. Also, the direct drive would not be good for off-road climbing. Battey and motor should be mid-bike and as low as possible, and battery should be about a 500 wh. I sold off the parts.

So I have decided a few things that I want in my next e-bike.

1. Must have a mid-drive - like Shimano, Yamaha, Bosche, or Brose.

2. Must have stealth look with well integrated motor and battery.

3. Must have torque-sensing and a pedal feeling be as transparent as possible without awkward surging.

4. 250, 350, 500, or 750 watts are all ok. I don't mind at all if it is 250 as that will be lighter, save battery power, and I am happy to pedal.

5. 15 or 28 mph are both ok. I would prefer 28, but not if the bike is worse in other ways.

6. Prefer compatibility with 3.0 inch tires (650B+).

These are the bikes I have found so far that look like what I want, but I have not ridden any of them. Which are the most trail-capable and have the most natural pedal feeling?

Giant Full-E+
Haibike XDuro NDuro Pro $5,800
Lapierre Overvolt AM 900+ £6400
Moustache Samedi 27 Trail Limited £7600
Nicolai ION EBOXX
Rotwild R.X+ FS €6,999
Scott E-Genius 700 Plus Tuned $5,400
Scott E-Spark 700 Plus TUNED £6,099
Specialized Turbo Levo FSR (Four trim levels - $4500 to $9500)

A real Mtn biker with real Mtn bike tastes. The demands of the trail are real and forth telling. A cheap trail or mtn bike will not perform or last. Same thing applies to MTN ebikes. The extra weight demands higher end and rugged components. For 2-3 lbs, sacrificing weight for strength is my motto. Go for lighter/small battery and stay 350 or less watts when riding to support a good hour ride, but less weight.

Eddie recommend KTM, but he is in Britain.
 

EddieJ

Well-Known Member
#9
Care to expand upon that by saying why?


Eddie recommend KTM, but he is in Britain.
Subject to intended use, I'd certainly recommend KTM, but that isn't to say that they are the best. To my mind, there is no best.

There are too many variables to come to a conclusion of what is the best bike, but KTM represents the best available to me, and my use. I have yet to see anything on the market that would draw me away from either the brand, or the support that is offered. To this end, I just recently placed an order for a new hardtail eMTB to replace the current one.


Some of my riding antics can be found here. https://www.facebook.com/edwardpeterjefferies/ and here https://www.instagram.com/eddiejefferies/?hl=en

.
 
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#10
until a month ago I was in the same boat, looked at many bikes only ridden a couple but I decided to buy a Turbo Levo Expert, I have to say I have been really happy with my purchase so far. I'm planning my first real rides for this upcoming weekend and can't wait. It feels extremely natural to ride and I find I leave it in trail mode 90% of the time as Turbo feels way to much assist lol. But this might change once I do a few climbs lol. Take the plunge and buy a bike....
 

elyhim

Active Member
#11
I leave it in trail mode 90% of the time as Turbo feels way to much assist lol. But this might change once I do a few climbs lol. Take the plunge and buy a bike....
Leave it in turbo - coasting uphill is fun!

Buy a bike, take the plunge. Soon everyone that said they wouldn't ride one will be riding them.
 
#14
I didn't buy one yet. Now I am thinking that I want dual suspension, 650B+ tires, 140mm tor more of suspension travel, and Brose-S or STEPS. Turbo Levo battery is getting to be small - 504 at most and 460 for models below Comp. The 2018 Bulls E-Cores are 750 with STEPS motors. The model AM or TR2 looks like what I want. Or if I like the Brose feel more, then the E-STREAM EVO AM4 or AM3. Or Maybe AtomX Lynx 6.
 

elyhim

Active Member
#15
Some of my friends who are waiting to buy are torn between focus which has a more limited battery life and Kenovo and waiting on the Pilot Shuttle. They want to pull the trigger on Trek's Powerfly new version as the support in North Carolina is amazing. In Raleigh you have a choice of multiple Trek stores. They are still waiting because they think there will be another motor/battery upgrade in the next year. Still Specialized does not care about Customer satisfaction as evidenced by their changing technology and not supporting the older styles. Other bikes have no local support so Trek is high on the list here and the Shuttle is high because, well..... have you seen the Pilot Shuttle?
 

EddieJ

Well-Known Member
#16
Don't you mean Pivot Shuttle, not Pilot Shuttle?

I hate the battery position of the Pivot, and removing it to change batteries mid ride when everything is covered in mud and crud, would quickly become a complete nightmare.

Personally, I wouldn't want any bike that utilizes a front loading downtube battery, irrelevant of make. Each to their own though, and I'm sure that it might well suit people that are happy undoing loads of bolts, don't go rides that require a mid ride battery change, or just ride in dry conditions.
 
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bob armani

Active Member
#18
Some of my friends who are waiting to buy are torn between focus which has a more limited battery life and Kenovo and waiting on the Pilot Shuttle. They want to pull the trigger on Trek's Powerfly new version as the support in North Carolina is amazing. In Raleigh you have a choice of multiple Trek stores. They are still waiting because they think there will be another motor/battery upgrade in the next year. Still Specialized does not care about Customer satisfaction as evidenced by their changing technology and not supporting the older styles. Other bikes have no local support so Trek is high on the list here and the Shuttle is high because, well..... have you seen the Pilot Shuttle?
FYI-I inquired about the Pilot Shuttle, and the rep indicted that it was only released in Europe and did not look like it will be coming to US anytime soon. They certainly make awesome MTBs along with Yeti, Ibis, Santa Cruz, Evil, and Canyon to name a few. Not sure if any of these companies will be getting on board with ebikes in the near future...
 
#19
My son rides a Pivot 429 Trail and its a wonderful MTB. I decided to buy the Pilot Shuttle based on how great his bike is, but you are correct - its not coming to the USA, Europe only. So I went with the Specialized Turbo Levo FSR 6 Fattie, and its just the coolest bike - I really enjoy it. I have ONLY ridden it off-road, and can keep up with my 25-year-old son on his Pivot in all sections, including technical up /down hills. Pedal strike are my single biggest complaint - in fact my only complaint. They are a little lower than most MTB bikes so you have to watch it on tree roots and rock gardens. The Specialized is very integrated, is not near as heavy as my Stromer ST2-S, and you do not feel like you are paying a penalty for the electric assist. I'm 63 years old and overweight. The only way i can ride with my son is with a bike like this, and its a lot of fun doing the father/son off-road stuff. The fact I can stay with him all the way is the key, he never has to "wait up" for the Old Man, so it lets us do something he loves - together. I used to race motocross and ride competitive enduros back in the 70s on motorcycles, so I have a considerable off-road experience on how-to-read-a-trail, etc., however the whole MTB thing is new to me. Mods to my Levo FSR are putting in a dropper seatpost, and I need to get a 1.5" riser for the handlebars, but that's it....the rest is spot on. Oh, and once you ride a Fattie tire, you'll never go back to skinnies.
 

bob armani

Active Member
#20
My son rides a Pivot 429 Trail and its a wonderful MTB. I decided to buy the Pilot Shuttle based on how great his bike is, but you are correct - its not coming to the USA, Europe only. So I went with the Specialized Turbo Levo FSR 6 Fattie, and its just the coolest bike - I really enjoy it. I have ONLY ridden it off-road, and can keep up with my 25-year-old son on his Pivot in all sections, including technical up /down hills. Pedal strike are my single biggest complaint - in fact my only complaint. They are a little lower than most MTB bikes so you have to watch it on tree roots and rock gardens. The Specialized is very integrated, is not near as heavy as my Stromer ST2-S, and you do not feel like you are paying a penalty for the electric assist. I'm 63 years old and overweight. The only way i can ride with my son is with a bike like this, and its a lot of fun doing the father/son off-road stuff. The fact I can stay with him all the way is the key, he never has to "wait up" for the Old Man, so it lets us do something he loves - together. I used to race motocross and ride competitive enduros back in the 70s on motorcycles, so I have a considerable off-road experience on how-to-read-a-trail, etc., however the whole MTB thing is new to me. Mods to my Levo FSR are putting in a dropper seatpost, and I need to get a 1.5" riser for the handlebars, but that's it....the rest is spot on. Oh, and once you ride a Fattie tire, you'll never go back to skinnies.
Hey I feel ya on the father /son outings to keep up with him on a Pivot Mach 429. The speed and agility on these bikes are amazing indeed. On a good trail, they are reaching speeds in excess of 25mph, downhill going over roots, rock gardens, etc. The bikes take a major beating and keep going and going. Not sure if the Levo could take that beating over the long term, however is a pretty solid bike. I also used the Levo, and it is super nimble IMHO, but so much more weight to sling than the Pivot type MTBs.
Wow you were a motocross guy in the 70s that is impressive. Me and my buddies use to ride on weekends on dirt trails in the 1980s/90s. Anything from Yamaha,
Husqvarna to Honda, we had a number of different ones to choose from, but nothing too rad like the motocross guys. Now us older dudes have to get on ebikes to hang with the pack. Perfect timing for me to get on an ebike to feel the speed a bit more that on a traditional MTB.
In addition, not sure if any of the aforementioned companies will be getting into the ebike market or not. I only see Pivot and not many others in that high end category. I have to say the components on these $5000 plus MTBs are impressive, however not sure if they are a bit overpriced or inflated for the market or not...
 

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