Best option right now? [Haibike FullFatSix]

Dmitri

Active Member
At the time of writing (2018), what's the best option for buying/making a fatbike? At the moment, I'm prepared to consider the following:
  • Haibike FullFat (yes I want dual-sus). The only thing that annoys me is the lack of dual battery, which for a fatbike seems to be an absolute must.
  • Luna Apex. I don't really like Luna or their attitude towards other bike manufacturers, but I wouldn't mind trying out their Apex bike. Except they don't ship internationally.
  • Electrifying my Salsa Blackborow using a Bafang kit. I've never done anything like this but it could be fun... if only I knew where to start.
I'm open to other ideas. And yeah I'm in Europe just in case you want to suggest something.
 

Ravi Kempaiah

Well-Known Member
Electrifying my Salsa Blackborow using a Bafang kit.
I have thought about this.
You can make a kickass bike with Bafang BBS-HD, 52V, 30Ah battery from EM3EV.
It may not be very refined in terms of ride experience, but it will be VERY capable and have huge range.
 

Dmitri

Active Member
I have thought about this.
You can make a kickass bike with Bafang BBS-HD, 52V, 30Ah battery from EM3EV.
It may not be very refined in terms of ride experience, but it will be VERY capable and have huge range.
Yes, the bike has space for a massive battery. However, the way the frame bends, a mid-drive would have to be pointing down somewhat. Maybe a hub motor makes more sense, I don't know...
 

Alaskan

Well-Known Member
Considerations: First with full suspension you are basically looking at what the manufacturers define as a mountain bike. Second, to my knowledge the only full suspension ebike with two batteries is one you already own...the R&M Delight.

When I was in the choose and decide phase I test rode a bunch of bike down in Seattle. One of the most impressive, in terms of ride was the hardtail mountain bike Cube Reaction Race 500 with a Bosch CX 500 watt battery and Shimano Diore XT 11 speed. It was vigorous in assist, very stable in the turns, felt solid and responsive. It uses the old style, more universal Bosch battery and integrates it into the down tube in a very attractive way. You could mount a beam rack on the seat post with a trunk bag that could hold your second battery. It does come with the Purion display/control which I would swap out for a Nyon. https://www.cube.eu/en/2018/e- bikes/mountain/hardtail/reaction/cube-reaction-hybrid-race-500-blacknblue-2018/

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Although I am awaiting a Riese & Muller (it has been six weeks so far) I was able to buy a new 2017 Cube Touring Hybrid Exc 500 on eBay for the cost of the 500 watt battery. It has the Bosch CX with the same Shimano Diore XT 11 speed 11-46. In my estimation this is a killer combination. I can spin it up to 35 mph going down 6 percent grade and go up a 12 percent grade at 10 mph in second gear. Shifting is smooth and powerful.

Cube does have a fat tire version but it is a hardtail, not full suspension. https://www.cube.eu/en/2018/e-bikes/mountain/hardtail/nutrail/cube-nutrail-hybrid-500-iridiumnred-2018/
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Cube has a nice range of full suspension ebikes in their lineup https://www.cube.eu/en/2018/e-bikes/mountain/fullsuspension/ I would consider taking the bike below, putting fatter tires on it, adding a beamstyle rear rack with a trunk bag and a second battery, replace the Purion with a Nyon add some good fenders and lights. I think it would all add up to a really great bike.
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rich c

Well-Known Member
I've put a fair number of miles on an original Sondors fat bike, over 1,600 miles, and I find them overrated. Don't get me wrong, I loved riding it, until I bought a Haibike XDURO F SX with bigger Schwalbe Super Moto tires. Now the fat bike is relegated to winter riding when salt is used. It's my winter beater bike. The Haibike is nimble, and can climb steep grades. Neither of those apply to a fat bike. I also get the speed I like with the Haibike. More than 20mph on a fat bike and it feels about like a run away train. If you like attention when you ride, that's the big factor for fat bikes. EVERYONE notices you. I've had people yell out what a cool bike I have while they drive down the street. I find riding in the snow over rated. About 10% of the time, in Central Illinois, it's perfect and a blast. The rest of the time the snow can be frozen and incredibly difficult to ride in. Then it can be too deep and slushy. I rode in one heavy wet snow, and had to stop every 3 minutes to clean my glasses. You have to buy some great wet gear riding in that kind of condition. It's also very easy to take a spill! It's a very narrow window of conditions that make riding in the snow a fun time. I've not ridden a full suspension fat bike, but it might be rough to tune the suspension. If you lower the tire pressure for better traction, you'll get bounce in the tires and the suspension. Might be fun, might be annoying. Now to your direct question. Based on my feelings about fat bikes, I would recommend a used Sondors. Price is right, hard to build one at that price, and it will scratch your itch. Pretty easy to find one for less than $700. Incredible owner support group on Facebook, and lots of aftermarket suppliers to upgrade if you like the ride. Don't like the ride, easy to resell at that price.
 

Dmitri

Active Member
In the end, I went for a Haibike Full FatSix, though I've been waiting for it for 3 months already.
 

Dmitri

Active Member
Why such a long wait?
Preorders for this bike went out in January for the bike to be delivered in June. In June, on the other hand, Haibike realized there are lots more people who want this bike. So, despite the next model of this bike already being available, Haibike is doing another production run of the old model. Unfortunately, they are stuck as they are waiting for a part from Shimano to complete production. Thus the wait.

Their new model has PW-X, SRAM Eagle, and is orange. Two out of these three aspects do not please me, so I am waiting for the old model to be made.
 

Dmitri

Active Member
Finally got it a couple days ago. Wonderful machine! Also I realize I love Yamaha motors a lot more than Bosch.
Only restriction is that it doesn't fit 4.8" in the rear... I think it fits 4.4" though.
 

ebikemom

Administrator
Staff member
So glad you got your bike! We'll look forward to hearing more about your experiences with the bike!
 

bob armani

Well-Known Member
Finally got it a couple days ago. Wonderful machine! Also I realize I love Yamaha motors a lot more than Bosch.
Only restriction is that it doesn't fit 4.8" in the rear... I think it fits 4.4" though.
A pic or 2 would be cool for a long awaited bike. Congrats. Hope it was worth the wait in the long haul...
 

33red

Member
Hi, maybe you can use a GroundControl tire in the rear. It all depends on your use, your weight and your likes.
That tire is available in 4.6 and 4.0x26. Here in Montreal Quebec FullSuspension fatbikes are about 1% of fatbikes.
Many like me use our fatbike our 4 winter months and a different bike the other months.
I just bought an Haibike 120 mm HT with 27.5x3.0 tires and at 47 pounds to me it feels heavy enough, i weight only 135 pounds.
I am curious what is your use for what is considered here as a niche bike.
 

Dmitri

Active Member
Just wanted to do an update for those of you interested how the bike handles in actual use after a few months:
  • The two smaller sprockets on the rear cassette got annihilated and had to be cannibalized from a different cassette.
  • The inwards-curving Ergon grips absolutely do not work on this type of handlebar, had to be replaced with more flat-looking ones.
  • I purchased a Jones-specific handlebar bag and it is super useful. I also built some battery packs to go into this bag.
  • Instead of purchasing a Supernova M99 and calling it a day, I decided to get a cheap 5-LED light of Aliexpress, replace the diode screens with TIR optics and use heavy, powerful battery packs with it (think 12× 18650 cells). This has its ups and downs, probably deserves a separate post since it's a big DIY effort.
  • Replaced rotors with Shimano Ice Tech. Yes, the Magura 200mm rotor is already warped, how did you know?!? Interesting fact — while undoing the front brake for maintenance, I managed to damage the bolts. This speaks to their quality.
  • The rear BBB fender got destroyed... twice. Don't buy them! The attachment part is so easy to break. I don't have a rear fender at the moment, the weather is dry for now.
Here are some photos of the affected parts:

20190725_215137.jpg20190725_215227.jpg20190725_215242.jpg20190725_215334.jpg
 

Dmitri

Active Member
Okay, even more upgrades. It never ends, does it? Anyways, here goes:
  • Replaced the Kona Wah Wah pedals with Shimano Saint ones. Main motivation is to finally remove these huge plastic pedals with very long spikes (excellent for tearing shoes/jeans) with proper DH metal pedals.
  • Added a Topeak MTX rear rack and bag. Couldn't find any reasonable solutions for dual-sus so this is the best I can do. It's holding up so far but I've had to use a torque wrench to secure it, as fixing the quick release by hand is... not strong enough.
I'm going to be building a carbon dual-wall wheel with one of those huge (insanely huge) RaceFace Vault hubs, but that will come a little bit later.

Meanwhile, some photos:
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33red

Member
Okay, even more upgrades. It never ends, does it? Anyways, here goes:
  • Replaced the Kona Wah Wah pedals with Shimano Saint ones. Main motivation is to finally remove these huge plastic pedals with very long spikes (excellent for tearing shoes/jeans) with proper DH metal pedals.
  • Added a Topeak MTX rear rack and bag. Couldn't find any reasonable solutions for dual-sus so this is the best I can do. It's holding up so far but I've had to use a torque wrench to secure it, as fixing the quick release by hand is... not strong enough.
I'm going to be building a carbon dual-wall wheel with one of those huge (insanely huge) RaceFace Vault hubs, but that will come a little bit later.

Meanwhile, some photos:
View attachment 36068View attachment 36069
I use a lumbar pack, that might work for you.
 

Dmitri

Active Member
Why that, Dmitri?
There are many reasons including:
  • Zero delay engagement. Yamaha is able to start up in any gear, whereas Bosch is really difficult to spin up if you're in high (fast) gear.
  • Yamaha uses 104BCD chainrings. Bosch, until recently, used proprietary ones, including Miranda chainrings that cannot be found in the wild.
  • Yamaha battery protocol has been reversed which means you can now buy or build non-original batteries for Yamaha motors. This is impossible for Bosch at the moment. You can also run several batteries in parallel (kind of like Bosch DualBattery).
  • Since 2019, Bosch is actively fighting derestriction by bricking the motor.
 

33red

Member
Why that, Dmitri?
There are many reasons to love a Yamaha.
They were first, they know their stuff. Mine is a 2017, bought a few months ago, it was an unsold. In 3,200kms 0 problem.
My 500 Wh never emptied, i did many rides over 4 hrs.
What i call instant power is a nice feature to restart uphill and generaly.
I have 20 speeds, use my large front to pedal to the trails and back.
My smaller in the woods.