CCX intermittent power

jom

New Member
#1
This is a new CCX bike with just 100 miles. The battery locks in place with the usual click and operates normally. Biking on a bumpy road the display goes off. A gentle hit with the palm of the hand on the left side re-establishes the power, after the power-on sequence (pressing the display power switch for 2 sec). Another gentle hit on the right side, and the power goes off again. Juiced Bikes is helping me with this problem and they are very responsive, but so far the problem remains. If anybody in this forum had power intermitent problems due to the battery-frame connector, and was able to solve it, I will appreciate your input. In the meantime I will try a tie-wrap to keep the battery towards the right side.
 
#2
At one point Juice was having problems with the pins in the electrical socket being pushed in and having contact problems. Might give it a look and see. I think it was the females with the issue.
 

Bruce Arnold

Well-Known Member
#4
Do a search in this forum and you will find some helpful information. There have been problems in the past with batteries being too tight as well as too loose.
 

jom

New Member
#5
Do a search in this forum and you will find some helpful information. There have been problems in the past with batteries being too tight as well as too loose.
Thanks, Bruce. I read all the messages related to poor battery connections, and also the extended explanation of Tora Harris regarding this issue, and the promises he made regarding future improvements, but the problem still remains at least in some CCXs. I have to assume that Juiced is working on these problems; my motivation to post again is to keep this issue fresh. Most people read only the first page of websites.

As things are now, even a perfect mechanical engagement of the battery, does not provide a reliable electrical connection. A displacement of a fraction of a millimiter of the battery with respect to the frame results in a connection or no-connection. As time goes, the problem becomes more frequent and I am concerned that very soon, damage to the electrical contacts will result, due to the minimal engagement. When the contact surface is so small, the current concentration in that limited contact surface results in a high temperature spot and/or sparking, finally melting the contacts and the insulation around the female contacts. We have seen pictures of damaged connectors in previous postings. Today solving the problem may require a $20 expense, ignoring the problem may cost much more.

Tightening the nuts that support the connectors could make for a minor temporary fix, which I did not observe. So far this is what the manufacturing support group has suggested, with no benefit to my bike.

I have worked in a project that had exactly the same type of connection problems, even worse, because these electrical connectors had to operate in an ambient of up to 200°C. The only solution I know of, is to make one of the connecting parts "quasi-floating", but kept in place against the other half of the connector by some elastic mean, such as a spring or spring washer. Mechanical tolerances are to be expected, more so when there are injected plastic parts, aluminum parts, working together, manufactured by different vendors.

To aggravate matters, the frame engagement pin diameter is about 0.4", and in the direction perpendicular to the "flat", it is only 0.34", while the diameter of the battery hole is approximately 0.5". Such slack between the pin and the hole diameters has to be taken by other parts, making the whole assembly difficult to manufacture with reliable results.

So, long term I assume that Juiced will be required to improve tolerances, make one of the connectors "quasi-floating". A clamping system to keep the heavy battery in place should also be part of the solution, similar to the quick release of the front wheel. Depending only on a pin and hole engagement to keep parts in place without relative movement is not enough.

Because this forum has a big audience, I wonder if this problem has not been already solved by someone. I knew about the tie-wrap to hold the battery against the frame, it seems a reasonable short term fix. In few words, I want to use my time biking rather than posting in a website forum.
 
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Dunbar

Well-Known Member
#6
I had the same issue when I got the 17.4ah battery for my original Cross Current. Originally with the smaller 7.8 and 10.4ah batteries I never had any connection issues.What fixed it for me was shimming the battery enclosure with Velcro as Juiced Bikes suggested. However, it lasts about 6 months before I have to re-do the Velcro to get a solid connection.
 

jom

New Member
#7
I had the same issue when I got the 17.4ah battery for my original Cross Current. Originally with the smaller 7.8 and 10.4ah batteries I never had any connection issues.What fixed it for me was shimming the battery enclosure with Velcro as Juiced Bikes suggested. However, it lasts about 6 months before I have to re-do the Velcro to get a solid connection.
Thanks Dunbar, I appreciate your input. Can you tell me what type of velcro did you use and where did you put it? Is it a self-adhesive velcro? I can live with a 6-months fix until I (or Juiced) finds a better way. Thanks!
 

Dunbar

Well-Known Member
#8
Thanks Dunbar, I appreciate your input. Can you tell me what type of velcro did you use and where did you put it? Is it a self-adhesive velcro? I can live with a 6-months fix until I (or Juiced) finds a better way. Thanks!
If you PM me your e-mail address I can forward you the e-mail that support sent me.
 

jom

New Member
#10
Did you see @Reid's take on this when you did your search? I no longer recall what it entailed, sorry.
Thanks again, Bruce. Reid proposes to float the frame port connector (contrary of what support suggested me), and I agree with Reid, but I also think it should be "spring-loaded" from the back, perhaps adding a piece of high density foam. Until I receive a better idea from Juiced, I will tie the battery with a belt.
You are a great member to this forum!
 
#11
Thanks again, Bruce. Reid proposes to float the frame port connector (contrary of what support suggested me), and I agree with Reid, but I also think it should be "spring-loaded" from the back, perhaps adding a piece of high density foam. Until I receive a better idea from Juiced, I will tie the battery with a belt.
You are a great member to this forum!
It’s too bad they haven’t fixed this issue. It seems to be a flawed design, even with the tube being widened to accommodate a wider battery. There’s still nothing that keeps the battery from moving laterally. I bought some Velcro cinch straps off Amazon a while ago, and haven’t had issues with the battery cutting since. It’s not the ideal situation, but it works. Juiced should add something that keeps the battery from moving laterally. This cost 7 bucks on Amazon.

CandyHome 20pcs Reusable Fastening Cable Straps and Cable Ties Set, Adjustable Multipurpose Hook and Loop Securing Straps for Cord Management https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06WVCGC37/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_XAGbCbSVEEPGM
 

Feliz

Active Member
#12
It’s too bad they haven’t fixed this issue. It seems to be a flawed design, even with the tube being widened to accommodate a wider battery. There’s still nothing that keeps the battery from moving laterally. I bought some Velcro cinch straps off Amazon a while ago, and haven’t had issues with the battery cutting since. It’s not the ideal situation, but it works. Juiced should add something that keeps the battery from moving laterally. This cost 7 bucks on Amazon.

CandyHome 20pcs Reusable Fastening Cable Straps and Cable Ties Set, Adjustable Multipurpose Hook and Loop Securing Straps for Cord Management https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06WVCGC37/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_XAGbCbSVEEPGM
Is there a strap/straps long enough to go around the battery and it's mounting? Thanks

There is and I just ordered some. I haven't had the quitting issue but if I do I'll have a fix.
 
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#13
Yes, there’s two 24” straps. I just ordered this pack since it was the cheapest I saw on Amazon, even though I only needed the one 24” strap. It wraps around the battery and frame and keeps it secure.
 

jom

New Member
#14
Is there a strap/straps long enough to go around the battery and it's mounting? Thanks

There is and I just ordered some. I haven't had the quitting issue but if I do I'll have a fix.
I am suggesting the use of some mitigating method (strap?) even before noticing a power down. If after power up, you hit the battery with your hand from the right side and the power goes down, this is a signal that you may need to take action now. I think this should be tested from time to time, not just once.

Problem is that the electric contacts could start degrading, perhaps without having a power down, because the engagement between the male and female contacts is marginal. When the engament is so marginal, the contact surface is very small and the high currents possible with the CCX can heat the contact area. Heat gradually softens the nickel-copper alloy, decreasing the engagement force provided by the female (battery) contact, accelerating the process. The plastic insulation arround the female contact also may degrade due to temperature. At the end, when sparking between contacts starts, the battery may need a new connector.

Nobody, that I am aware, has reported a battery falling off. But there are some few that reported electrical power downs, and worse, damaged battery and frame port contacts. The mechanical pin/hole connection is OK, except that it allows some lateral displacement, not too much, I would say about a millimiter. That small displacement can make the electrical contact good or bad. That is an indication of poor electrical contact engagement: clearly, less than a millimiter in my bike.

So, we need to:
1. Somehow prevent the lateral displacement of the battery. For now, a strap could do the job.
2. Somehow increase the engament of the electrical connector. It may require a small modification of the key/lock assembly so that the frame connector can move towards the battery a little more.
3. Make the connector "quasi-floating" so that mechanical interference is prevented, at the same time that maximum engagement is provided, and there is some mechanical isolation between the frame key/assembly and its male connector.

I am sure that Juiced is working on this issue, but I will order the whole port/key assembly for the CCX and try some more long term solution on my own. I already put a ticket asking for part number/availability.

Of course, I may be wrong in my assessment... I appreciate all the comments so far. Great forum!
 

Feliz

Active Member
#16
Yes, there’s two 24” straps. I just ordered this pack since it was the cheapest I saw on Amazon, even though I only needed the one 24” strap. It wraps around the battery and frame and keeps it secure.
Thanks for replying, I also ordered the pack. That is a good price, I'm paying to have it shipped to Canada and it's still cheaper than I can buy it here.
 
#17
I am suggesting the use of some mitigating method (strap?) even before noticing a power down. If after power up, you hit the battery with your hand from the right side and the power goes down, this is a signal that you may need to take action now. I think this should be tested from time to time, not just once.

Problem is that the electric contacts could start degrading, perhaps without having a power down, because the engagement between the male and female contacts is marginal. When the engament is so marginal, the contact surface is very small and the high currents possible with the CCX can heat the contact area. Heat gradually softens the nickel-copper alloy, decreasing the engagement force provided by the female (battery) contact, accelerating the process. The plastic insulation arround the female contact also may degrade due to temperature. At the end, when sparking between contacts starts, the battery may need a new connector.

Nobody, that I am aware, has reported a battery falling off. But there are some few that reported electrical power downs, and worse, damaged battery and frame port contacts. The mechanical pin/hole connection is OK, except that it allows some lateral displacement, not too much, I would say about a millimiter. That small displacement can make the electrical contact good or bad. That is an indication of poor electrical contact engagement: clearly, less than a millimiter in my bike.

So, we need to:
1. Somehow prevent the lateral displacement of the battery. For now, a strap could do the job.
2. Somehow increase the engament of the electrical connector. It may require a small modification of the key/lock assembly so that the frame connector can move towards the battery a little more.
3. Make the connector "quasi-floating" so that mechanical interference is prevented, at the same time that maximum engagement is provided, and there is some mechanical isolation between the frame key/assembly and its male connector.

I am sure that Juiced is working on this issue, but I will order the whole port/key assembly for the CCX and try some more long term solution on my own. I already put a ticket asking for part number/availability.

Of course, I may be wrong in my assessment... I appreciate all the comments so far. Great forum!
I’m certainly not an engineer, but it seems like a simple fix could be making the socket spring loaded so that it would provide constant lateral pressure to the pin connector. Just my uneducated guess.
 

jom

New Member
#18
Hi Jom, we invite you to put a ticket for the issue first. So this way we can help you get your bike running optimally
Thank you for your time
Hi Luis, thanks for your interest. I already initiated a ticket and got a quick answer from Natan (Juiced Bikes). Today he is sending me a replacement "Receiver / Downtube Battery Lock Interface Set for Current Series / Wide Format" to try. I was planning to buy it myself, but Juiced Bikes decided to send me a new one for free! As soon as I receive and try, I'll report. Thanks again Luis, great service.
 

bikerjohn

Active Member
#19
Hi Luis, thanks for your interest. I already initiated a ticket and got a quick answer from Natan (Juiced Bikes). Today he is sending me a replacement "Receiver / Downtube Battery Lock Interface Set for Current Series / Wide Format" to try. I was planning to buy it myself, but Juiced Bikes decided to send me a new one for free! As soon as I receive and try, I'll report. Thanks again Luis, great service.
Please report your corrective results with some photos of the alignment if possible.
 

jom

New Member
#20
At one point Juice was having problems with the pins in the electrical socket being pushed in and having contact problems. Might give it a look and see. I think it was the females with the issue.
2018/12/07 Update on the contact problem of my CCX:

I have not received the replacement port assy yet from the manufacturer, as promised. As I mentioned before, the bike has intermittent power biking on minor bumps, and I can reproduce the problem by applying a small pressure on the right side of the battery. The battery is very well engaged, mechanically .

Today I removed the battery and noticed that the positive female sleeve of the battery connector started to degrade -see pic below. The edges show some sparking activity, indicative of a marginal electrical connection, although still is usable. Most of the sleeve is still in good condition. I also noticed that the positive male pin of the frame port was slightly shorter than the negative pin, as measured from the edge of the plastic body of the connector. The pin is not loose, it is firm in place, just slightly shorter. Unless it is done by design, the difference is just a manufacturing "deviation." The difference is noticeable by eye, but just an insignificant 0.02". This seems to be enough to make a bad engagement; it also means that the "good engagement" is only slightly more than 0.02". The male positive pin also shows signs of the sparking activity.

The bike still operates. Now I am going to use some adhesive tape or tie-wrap to keep the battery as much to the right as I can, until I receive the straps I ordered. Hope I receive a new port assembly before the battery connector becomes worthless.
 

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