Delfast bike offers 236-mile range on a single charge!

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by zap016VOLTAGE, Sep 13, 2017.

  1. zap016VOLTAGE

    zap016VOLTAGE Member

    Delfast bike offers 236-mile range on a single charge! :eek:

    From ebiketips "Delfast are courier company based in Kiev, Ukraine, specializing in quick delivery of online purchases. Their quest to find the perfect delivery vehicle for their operations has led them to experiment with e-bikes, and ultimately build their own."

    Their Kickstarter campaign will begin September 20th.
    Delfast bikes may be just the ticket for commuters.
    Can't wait for their kickstarter campaign.:)

     


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  3. rich c

    rich c Active Member

    Why is the rider not pedaling? It's because it's not an ebike, it's a motorcycle with some pedal foot rests. All these kind of bikes have incredibly poor seat to pedal design, and make for very poor pedaling forces. It's the kind of "bike" that will bring about more restrictive laws for real ebikes.
     
  4. Sonoboy

    Sonoboy Active Member

    You're right, Rich. The entire video shows riders zooming along...and not ONE scene where they are pedaling! Makes you wonder if the seat to pedal relationship is so bad that it would remind you of a clown pedaling one of those zany circus bikes for audience amusement. Plus, the design looks like they ripped off the Stealth Bomber bike, which we know doesn't quite live up to being a true bicycle.
     
  5. JayVee

    JayVee Well-Known Member

    236 miles in your dreams. That thing ain't going more than 50 to 80 miles.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
  6. harryS

    harryS Active Member

    Hmm, is 236 miles even feasible? 70 AH battery at 72 V. That will be almost 5000 watt-hr. A normal ebike could go 200 miles with that, if speed is held down. 20 Samsung GA cells in parallel is 70AH. 20 in series to get 72V is 400 batteries. Yeah, that's not an outlandish claim, but given the weight of that bike, I'd like to hear what speed they're using.
     
  7. zap016VOLTAGE

    zap016VOLTAGE Member

    Devil in the details?:confused:

    • Their Kickstarter launch date is September 20th.
    • Perhaps their bikes will have been reviewed by then?
    ebiketips states that the bike will have an 3072Wh battery.
    • My concern is whether or not the bike's battery can be removed for charging indoors/storage?
    • I would like to see Delfast provide greater info
    • In saying that, does anyone remember a guy named Storm Sondors? From nowhere had a kickstarter campaign for, of all things, a $500 fat bike?

    From Delfast: "We travelled 380 km on a single charge without pedalling and filmed timlepase from two GoPros. This is our video with 600x increased speed."
    • Please click the links and watch the videos provided. The video states their average speed was 15.7 mph.

     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2017
  8. harryS

    harryS Active Member

    If 3072 Watt-hr, then 236 miles means 13 watt/hr per mile. That, in my experience, would be be around 15 mph on some of my bikes at throttle only.
     
  9. zap016VOLTAGE

    zap016VOLTAGE Member

    Transparent ;)
    Before Delfast's kickstarter campaign launches, it would be helpful if they could release detailed information about their 3 bikes.
     
  10. zap016VOLTAGE

    zap016VOLTAGE Member

    Emailed Delfast

    So I sent an email to Delfast, in which I asked if they could provide more info on each of the 3-bikes that will launched on Kickstarter later this month.
    Here is Delfast's email address: bikes@delfast.co.
    Their Kickstarter campaign is to begin the 20th of September.
    If I receive a reply, I'll post it here.
     
  11. rich c

    rich c Active Member

    I'm curious why you compare this campaign to Sondors? Sondors appealed to everyone at that price point, I'm certain 380 km will have the same appeal in a campaign as $500. Not to mention this thing looks like a motorcycle. My leisure activity is on a bicycle. The only place I could ride this Delfast is on the street. I love riding rail trails!
     
  12. zap016VOLTAGE

    zap016VOLTAGE Member

    Delfast Replied! :D

    I had emailed Delfast asking if they could provide additional information. Below is their reply.

    From Delfast (where I could, I've included links):

    Frame: Ukraine

    Fork Zoom: 680DH Black: http://bike.us.hlcorp.com/product/item-255.html

    Suspension: Rear Shock Dnm mm220LAR: http://www.dnmshock.com/products-single.php?id=26

    Batteries: 48B 64Ah 13S12P Boston Swing (USA) + Bluetooth Smart BMS: http://www.boston-power.com/

    Charger: Charger LIPO 54, or 64V + 12A + Waterproof Gold Connector

    Controller: 48V/32A with recupersation and 4 Modes PAS/25kph 250W/32kph/unlimited

    Shifter: Shimano 7speed black + RD Shimano Turney 7sp

    Motor: GTS1000 6T 205/30

    Rims: Sun Rims MTX 39”, 24” 36H Black: https://sun-ringle.com/mtb/rims/mtx-39/

    Tires: Urban 24x3

    Light: Front: Enduro HGM LED 20W + USB, Rear: Enduro Tail Combo

    Signaling: Bluetooth, Keychain, Start/Stop Button, Remote launch, Alarm, Motor Blocking

    Thank you Daniel!:)
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2017 at 2:16 PM
  13. zap016VOLTAGE

    zap016VOLTAGE Member

    I'm sorry for the confusion.

    Your analysis "Sondors appealed to everyone at that price point" is correct.

    I tried to draw a comparison of a startup influencing an industry.

    Sondors was one of the most successful Kickstarter campaigns.

    I believe that by eliminating a concern for many riders - that being range anxiety - Delfast may point to a new direction that ebike manufacturers may someday follow.

    Perhaps I'm comparing apples to oranges, but look how the original iPhone changed our perception of cell phones.
     
  14. JRA

    JRA Well-Known Member

    Riders routinely do in the 20 mph avg. spd. range on conventional bikes over that distance. Hauling that heavy beast around just to go 15 mph is kind of a joke. It's not that big a deal to re charge the battery and thinking that you will be skipping that step by carrying around a huge battery so you don't have to do it as often is not the best way to go. Seriously how far do you need to go in one day? I would wager that for most potential e bike buyers a 30 mile range would suffice along with the ability to ride without power if necessary which means as light as possible which having as small an ah battery as you need will help with. That is why most of the current bikes come with batteries that reflect that amount of mileage.

    Sure there will some that need a bigger battery for more mileage but that is a matter of mating the battery size to your personal needs factoring in avg. spd. over terrain that you wish to accomplish.
     
  15. zap016VOLTAGE

    zap016VOLTAGE Member

    Evolution?

    I'm excited by companies such as Delfast and Juiced Bike for their wiliness to move the industry forward.
    Both companies are "Pushing the Envelope."
    To better serve the needs of riders, electric bikes will have to evolve.
    Witness dedicated ebike specific components i.e. Frames, Forks, Tires, Hydraulic Brakes et al
    In doing so, their appearance is likely to change from that of classic bicycles.
    Where I live, fun events occur in different areas/communties. Weekend commuting by public transit has been hampered by weekend construction.
    It's PAINFULL to commute on the weekends!
    If a person's commute is 30 miles daily, should that person purchase a vehicle which can travel just 30 miles?
    • Ebike owners tend to ride further distances than those riding classic bicycles.
    • Greater range might encourage ebike owners to travel even greater distances.
    • The need to charge the battery will be less frequent perhaps extending the battery's life.

    Juiced Bikes - Let's Talk About Battery Packs
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2017 at 9:14 AM
  16. rich c

    rich c Active Member

    How is slapping a giant battery pack considered evolution and moving the industry forward? Their designs don't serve me at all. I also don't want to ride something that looks like a motorcycle. If I want that, I'll buy a motorcycle that has tires rated for the weight and speed.
     
  17. harryS

    harryS Active Member

    I looked at the data sheet for the Boston Battery 5.3AH cell used in the Delfast battery. It's a rectangular battery with rounded edges, about the size of two 18650 cells. I tried a rough calculation of the actual volumes and it seems like the Samsung GA 3.5AH cells pack more watt-hours per cubic centimeter. Unless my math is way off on that, no new technology here in the cells. It's just a bigger one. So pack in enough cells for 64AH.

    Boston Battery does looks to have a simplified no-weld battery assembly module. This might be a lot cheaper and allow easy maintenance/repair of bad cells. That could be nice for small/cheap 20 cell 36V 10.6 AH and 28 cell 48 V 10.6AH batteries. This would be the evolution I want to see, a safe $100-$200 ebike battery. Most people who ride for recreation like me could go 30 miles on that battery.

    Otherwise, Delfast may be inadvertantly going for the electric motorcycle market, where you will need plates, maybe an approved helmet, and probably need a motorcycle test/license.
     
    zap016VOLTAGE likes this.
  18. scrambler

    scrambler Member

    This bike(s) have already been sold for years by another company called Vector (http://www.vectorebike.com/), also from Ukraine.
    Given the similarity of the frame used, I suspect they have the same provider.

    They can definitely be pedaled, and are the next best thing for high power rear hub bikes, after the (expensive) Stealth Bike ( http://www.stealthelectricbikes.com/ ).

    There are also cheaper versions based on a Chinese clone of that frame used by companies like Evelbike (http://evelbike.com/) Power velocity (http://powervelocity.com/) and many more.
    Battery wise these are regular 18650 cell based, the frame can just hold a lot of them for up to 620 x 18650 cells (20s 31p), as shown in this ES post.
    https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=68385&p=1261268#p1261261
    With 3.5ah cells, this is 8000kwh! You can go a long way on that :)

    Similar high power Rear Hub E-bikes with different frames include:
    Qulbix: https://www.qulbix.com/
    Bultaco Brinco: http://www.bultaco.com/en/motos
    LMX: http://www.lmxbikes.com/en/full-lmx-bike/77-vtt-freeride-lmx-81.html

    In High power pedal assist bikes, the real innovation is coming from Neematic, with a mid drive solution, a torque sensing pedal assist and a Pinion gearbox for pedaling.
    http://www.neematic.com/
    First 50 bikes to be released next summer, as expensive as a Stealth ($10,000), but arguably a much better bike.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2017 at 3:05 PM
    zap016VOLTAGE likes this.
  19. zap016VOLTAGE

    zap016VOLTAGE Member

    Thank you both @harryS and @scrambler for sharing. :)
    Delfast seems to be positioning their bike as an on-road commuter rather than an off-road eMountain bike.
     
  20. zap016VOLTAGE

    zap016VOLTAGE Member

    Delfast Replied! :D

    Delfast replied to some of my questions.

    I had asked:
    Q: Is
    Delfast bikes and Vector bike companies one of the same (both Ukrainian)?
    A: "We never met and I can't say anything about Vector."

    Q: Is Delfast collaborating with Vector on ebikes for Delfast's upcoming Kickstarter campaign?
    A: "The frame producer makes for us a frame upon our needs and characteristics." "So it's new and advanced version of the frame."

    Q: Is the battery pack removable for charging/storage?
    A: "We'll, it's possible to open the frame, but we don't guarantee proper work then." "There is special plug for charging the battery so you don't to remove battery for charging it."

    Q: Who is supplying your bike’s motors (GTS1000)?
    A: No Answer :(

    Thank you DT! ;)
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2017 at 11:48 AM

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