Fazua in the USA

ghukins

Member
I hacve read eveything from summer 2019 to 2020/2021. I have bad knees and need to do something. I would buy an Orbea Gain, but if Fazua is a month or two away, it makes sense to wait. Why? Because the ebikemotion batteries have limited range and they are NOT removeable. They claim there is an option for a water bottle look supplemental battery, but nobody has seen them. WIth the Fazua drive, you can slip one or two spare batteries (small and light) in a backpack for a really long range.
 

MikeDee

Active Member
I hacve read eveything from summer 2019 to 2020/2021. I have bad knees and need to do something. I would buy an Orbea Gain, but if Fazua is a month or two away, it makes sense to wait. Why? Because the ebikemotion batteries have limited range and they are NOT removeable. They claim there is an option for a water bottle look supplemental battery, but nobody has seen them. WIth the Fazua drive, you can slip one or two spare batteries (small and light) in a backpack for a really long range.
Fazua is battery plus motor and controller. Expect to pay $$$ for that.
 

JRA

Well-Known Member
Not sure when the Fazua system is going to be made available here but this Donnelly Gravel Bike has it onboard and it is primarily a US based brand.

FSA-ACR-internal-cabling-Cycle-Show-2019-4.jpg

Photo grab from Taipei Cycle Show 2019 in the FSA booth. Couldn't find any info on their home site but it probably will be available sooner than later. But all the reports I have read seem to point to the fact that the system is pretty anemic power wise which makes sense as in the e world power/range gain=weight gain.
 

ghukins

Member
Fazua is battery plus motor and controller. Expect to pay $$$ for that.
The differentiator is that with the Fazua system, the battery, motor and controller are removeable. You can carry a spare battery or two and easily replace midride. That's what gives it a huge advantage over the ebikemotion system found in Orbea, Bianchi and others.
 

MikeDee

Active Member
The differentiator is that with the Fazua system, the battery, motor and controller are removeable. You can carry a spare battery or two and easily replace midride. That's what gives it a huge advantage over the ebikemotion system found in Orbea, Bianchi and others.
The battery, motor, and controller are attached as one unit. You would have to carry all of this as a spare. Not only is a lot more expensive than just buying a spare battery, it's also a lot heavier. Unless you have information that the battery part alone can be purchased separately and is easily removed and replaced from the unit in the field, what you are saying is not very practical.
 

ghukins

Member
The battery, motor, and controller are attached as one unit. You would have to carry all of this as a spare. Not only is a lot more expensive than just buying a spare battery, it's also a lot heavier. Unless you have information that the battery part alone can be purchased separately and is easily removed and replaced from the unit in the field, what you are saying is not very practical.
This video
shows how the battery and the drive pack are separate pieces in one tube and you can sway out a battery.
 

MikeDee

Active Member
This video
shows how the battery and the drive pack are separate pieces in one tube and you can sway out a battery.
Nice! Personally, I like the ebikemotion system better and I think they will eventually come out with the bottle battery.
 

ghukins

Member
Nice! Personally, I like the ebikemotion system better and I think they will eventually come out with the bottle battery.
The huge advantages to the Fazua system are:
  • Thru axle or quick release rear - ebikemotion requires you to carry a wrench as they are bolts
  • With a rear hub motor, you can't just decide to upgrade to carbon wheels on your own
  • Unles you buy a second hub (expensive since that is the motor), you can't have two sets of wheels (e.g. road, gravel)
  • Again, Fazua has a removeable battery!
 

MikeDee

Active Member
The huge advantages to the Fazua system are:
  • Thru axle or quick release rear - ebikemotion requires you to carry a wrench as they are bolts
  • With a rear hub motor, you can't just decide to upgrade to carbon wheels on your own
  • Unles you buy a second hub (expensive since that is the motor), you can't have two sets of wheels (e.g. road, gravel)
  • Again, Fazua has a removeable battery!
Disadvantages of the Fazua: heavier e-system and frame. Downtube is a C section rather than a stronger and lighter tube. I think hub drives are better for road bikes. I like decoupling my pedaling / cadence from the drive system. Wider Q factor for the Fazua. The Fazua power coupling looks flakey to me. I think it will be a source of noise, wear, and friction. There was a report in Cycling Weekly where the reviewer compared the two systems by riding two different bikes up the same mountain climb. The ebikemotion system performed better, faster, and quieter. Carrying a wrench is not an issue. Most road thru axles need an Allen wrench anyway. The Focus Paralane2 uses road boost wheels. Good luck finding a spare set of those. I don't really need a spare set anyway. I wonder why Pinarello chose to go with the ebikemotion system for the Dyodo in the US since they had the Nytro with the Fazua system? I read a posting (unsubstantiated) that they've been having problems with the Fazua. Fazua is a startup company whereas ebikemotion is a subsidiary of an established automotive parts company. The power button on the top tube is cleaner and I've got no problems using it. The handlebar control with the Fazua still requires removing one hand from the bars and you have to take your eyes off the road to look at it, same as the button. It looks cheezy, takes up bar space, and has a wire. I can find and actuate the button without taking my eyes off the road anyway. Fazua doesn't have a phone app yet. The bottle battery concept is better than having to carry a spare battery in a backpack. Fazua isn't even offered in the US yet, and you are assuming that you will be able to buy a spare battery for it. Good luck, as I've heard they have their hands full just meeting the demands from the bike manufacturers. The Fazua battery has to be removed to charge it. That'll get old after a while since I can just plug my charger into the connector on my Orbea. I have other bikes so the ability to convert to a (mostly) regular road bike with the Fazua is something I don't care about.

So yeah, you like the Fazua better. I like the ebikemotion system better.
 
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ghukins

Member
Disadvantages of the Fazua: heavier e-system and frame. Downtube is a C section rather than a stronger and lighter tube. I think hub drives are better for road bikes. I like decoupling my pedaling / cadence from the drive system. Wider Q factor for the Fazua. The Fazua power coupling looks flakey to me. I think it will be a source of noise, wear, and friction. There was a report in Cycling Weekly where the reviewer compared the two systems by riding two different bikes up the same mountain climb. The ebikemotion system performed better, faster, and quieter. Carrying a wrench is not an issue. Most road thru axles need an Allen wrench anyway. The Focus Paralane2 uses road boost wheels. Good luck finding a spare set of those. I don't really need a spare set anyway. I wonder why Pinarello chose to go with the ebikemotion system for the Dyoto in the US since they had the Nitro with the Fazua system? I read a posting (unsubstantiated) that they've been having problems with the Fazua. Fazua is a startup company whereas ebikemotion is a subsidiary of an established automotive parts company. The power button on the top tube is cleaner and I've got no problems using it. The handlebar control with the Fazua still requires removing one hand from the bars and you have to take your eyes off the road to look at it, same as the button. It looks cheezy, takes up bar space, and has a wire. I can find and actuate the button without taking my eyes off the road anyway. Fazua doesn't have a phone app yet. The bottle battery concept is better than having to carry a spare battery in a backpack. Fazua isn't even offered in the US yet, and you are assuming that you will be able to buy a spare battery for it. Good luck, as I've heard they have their hands full just meeting the demands from the bike manufacturers. The Fazua battery has to be removed to charge it. That'll get old after a while since I can just plug my charger into the connector on my Orbea. I have other bikes so the ability to convert to a (mostly) regular road bike with the Fazua is something I don't care about.

So yeah, you like the Fazua better. I like the ebikemotion system better.
I wasn't trying to be argumentative, just stating the advantages as I see them. I can't get a clear answer when they will be available in the US. I have heard anything from July to 2021. That doesn't give me a warm feeling. Based on my test ride experience with the Orbea though, I don't thinik I would buy one until the spare battery is available. Best of luck!
 

MikeDee

Active Member
I wasn't trying to be argumentative, just stating the advantages as I see them. I can't get a clear answer when they will be available in the US. I have heard anything from July to 2021. That doesn't give me a warm feeling. Based on my test ride experience with the Orbea though, I don't thinik I would buy one until the spare battery is available. Best of luck!
No problem. Didn't think you were. I'm sure there are qualities where one would prefer one over the other, depending upon their needs. I'm waiting for the battery too so I can ride a century with it without running out of power. Mostly I'm riding in L1 mode with limited use of L2, so running out of juice isn't a problem with most of the riding I'm doing.

Have you considered other bikes with 500 Wh batteries?
 

ghukins

Member
No problem. Didn't think you were. I'm sure there are qualities where one would prefer one over the other, depending upon their needs. I'm waiting for the battery too so I can ride a century with it without running out of power. Mostly I'm riding in L1 mode with limited use of L2, so running out of juice isn't a problem with most of the riding I'm doing.

Have you considered other bikes with 500 Wh batteries?
Believe it or not, my cycling club, despite my concrete arguments against it, has decided to ban class 3 pedelecs (Trek Domane +) because they go 28 mph, not 20.
 

Jaxx

Active Member
Believe it or not, my cycling club, despite my concrete arguments against it, has decided to ban class 3 pedelecs (Trek Domane +) because they go 28 mph, not 20.

I don't like censoring of banning, however we are getting into racing speeds now. We have a few ebikes on our Sunday run. No probs, and there wouldn't be I'm sure, if they where 20mph ebikes? As you know EU limit is 15.6mph. Club rides usually average 17'ish. We do still have our moments where for an hour, we are banging out 20mph but someone generally sees sense and calls a halt. After all it is a social ride. Knowing human nature, and the male species in particular (competitive, aggression etc) I can understand such a move to restrict certain ebikes from club rides. It would certainly be easier than attempting to control the owners on a ride.
 

ghukins

Member
All very good points. Perhaps a perfect e-road bike solution would be class 1 limit of 20mph but with a mid-drive size battery - 500wh - to give us the range we need. I would love a mild assist (ebikemotion, Fazua) but with a lager battery to support long rides!

Here is the policy I proposed that was rejected. What do you think with the exception of the allowance of class 3 pedelecs?


Proposed E-bike Policy
Members of the Morris Area Freewheelers Bicycle Club may ride bicycles with electric assist motors on all Club tours and events, provided:
  • The bicycle must be pedal assist (the bike does not move without pedaling), it must not have a throttle and must be a Class 1 or Class 3 e-bike (pending legislation on this Class).
  • Throttle e-bikes are strictly prohibited for safety
  • It is not the responsibility for a Ride Leader to determine if a rider is using an e-bike or what class of e-bike a rider is using, but rather to make riders aware of the current legislation. It is the rider’s responsibility to know and obey the law.
  • If an e-bike rider is operating their e-bike in an unsafe manner, a Ride Leader has the authority to speak with the e-bike rider to discuss what they are doing incorrectly or to ask that the e-bike rider ride off the back of the group for the safety of others
  • A rider with an e-bike should ride with the same pace rides they would ride without an e-bike. It is unsafe to use an e-bike to ride two or more levels beyond your ability with a regular bike. Beyond physical stamina and capability comes a skill set developed by faster riders that includes paceline and knowledge of bike handling that a D rider will not possess.
  • Etiquette:
  • It is considered bad form for an e-bike rider to aggressively pass regular bike riders up steep hills
  • An e-bike rider should ride at the pace of the other riders
  • An e-bike rider should be certain they have sufficient battery reserve for the ride they have chosen (fully charged battery and spare if needed). It is not the Ride Leader’s responsibility to ensure that the e-bike rider is safely returned to the start point should they run out of battery; although they, or another rider, would be encouraged to do so

Class 1 – 750W/20 mph max, pedal assist
eBikes that are pedal-assist only, with no throttle, and have a maximum assisted speed of 20 mph.
Class 2 - 750W/20mph max, throttle activated only
eBikes that also have a maximum speed of 20 mph, but are throttle-assisted.
Class 3 – 750W/28mph max, pedal activated only. (Speed Pedelec)
eBikes that are pedal-assist only, with no throttle, and a maximum assisted speed of 28 mph.

Federal Law
For the purpose of this section, the term `low-speed electric
bicycle' means a two- or three-wheeled vehicle with fully operable
pedals and an electric motor of less than 750 watts (1 h.p.), whose
maximum speed on a paved level surface, when powered solely by such a
motor while ridden by an operator who weighs 170 pounds, is less than 20
mph.

Speed Pedelec ebikes – A new classification of bikes called ‘Speed Pedelecs’ have emerged which technically meet the bicycle definition for a 20 mph ebike. These e-bikes are designed to max out at 28 mph. Pedelecs are pedal activated vs throttle activated. The weasel words within the definition says, “20mph on motor alone”. Thus, a person who adds their leg power to the motor assist and happens to cruise at 28mph is NOT doing it by motor alone, and therefore the bike is considered to be compliant with the Federal Law. If the rider stops pedaling, the speed pedelec cannot maintain speed.
 

Jaxx

Active Member
I think you have just written the "Blueprint" for the coming together of E and none e-bike riders for cycling clubs, with the caveat (all headwind riding, to be lead by e-riders) Seriously though, this is a fine and workable document. What we don't want for the future is, a) Clubs ignoring e-bikes or b) Having an e-bike section. This is going to need to be addressed by all clubs in the coming years. We need to be able to ride together, and clubs should TODAY be looking at this issue and have answers. No club should have to turn away potential new members.
 

ghukins

Member
Thank you for the feedback. Let's hear from others with the goal of memorializing a workable policy all can share.
 

Jaxx

Active Member
Thank you for the feedback. Let's hear from others with the goal of memorializing a workable policy all can share.
I shall look with interest like you, for other comments. A bored black Labbie now needs walking (they just love the rain)
 

Rincon

Active Member
The Fazua battery has to be removed to charge it. That'll get old after a while since I can just plug my charger into the connector on my Orbea.
From the Fazua manual:

Charging the Battery Pack
The Battery Pack (8) can be recharged at any time on its own, within a Drivepack (1), or within your eBike.
 

ghukins

Member
I shall look with interest like you, for other comments. A bored black Labbie now needs walking (they just love the rain)
I started a new thread for a cycling club policy under
Electric Bike Guides, Resources

to see if we can elicit a lot more feedback/input.
 

ghukins

Member
Hey folks,

Just got an update directly from Fazua.

Expect to see their drives in bikes hitting the US shores in late autumn 2019.