Fullseven XDURO S Pro 2016

Discussion in 'Haibike Forum' started by 2wheel, Jun 13, 2016.

  1. 2wheel

    2wheel New Member

    I'm considering getting one of these, but haven't read any reviews. This is the s-pedelec version of the Fullseven with the speed cutoff at 28 mph. The motor is not the newer cx, however, and the battery housing is the 2015 style, not the newer more integrated one. I'd like to have the higher top speed for fire roads and occasional tarmac.

    Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated.

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  3. Jack Tyler

    Jack Tyler Active Member

    @2wheel I can't offer much comment except to say I rode the Performance and CX versions from Bosch last week and the CX motor, on a FS Bulls, was noticeably stronger, seemingly a bit smoother, and overall very impressive. If I was looking at ebikes of that caliber and cost, I'd be reluctant to give up the CX choice.
  4. 2wheel

    2wheel New Member

    Yes, that's my concern. I've ridden Performance and CX models as well, and agree with your assessment. I have not ridden the s-pedelec version of the Performance motor, however, but I assume it is the same other than the higher mph cutoff. Of course, it would be very nice to have the CX version of the s-pedelec.
  5. MLB

    MLB Well-Known Member

    Much more similar than they are different. CX has 15"newton meters" more torque. both are extremely good and among the best systems available. Sweating one over the other is not worth the sweat.
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2016
  6. Jan

    Jan Member

    I am the proud owner of a Fullseven S (yes, "S") RX. I tested the CX on a Bulls Monster, and I agree, there is more torque. I seriously thought about buying a CX and doing the governor override, "tuning". I just didn't want to risk the potential voided warranty issues. It was a tough decision. I hear Motorstrano has got tuning down to a "science", so the risks may not be valid. Also Joe has some "Clearance" Haibikes that have been "upgraded", and his prices are good. I came very close to going this way.

    I now have 200 miles on my new bike, which I have owned less than a week. It is awesome!! I can go about 70 miles with one battery change, but that includes serious hills.

    Yes, the torque was a sacrifice. But here's the thing: every time I look at the speedometer and it grins back with 27 and 28mps, I realize I made the right decision. I have had some bikes with the 20mph cutoff and it is so frustrating, especially when a brightly colored Cervelo rider passes you and you know you'd have no problem if only that stupid limiter was not holding you back.

    If you want to wait, Bosch will probably make the CXs officially speed pedals after Interbike. They are also coming out with a dual battery pack. Some people are patient. . . not me. Life is way to short to wait to ride (my opinion.)

    My Izip has 73n/m and the torque differentiation is definitely detectable. But ahhh the shifting. You really wouldn't know there's a motor on the Bosch bike. It is so smooth.

    If you do decide on the Performance S, get it assembled by a professional shop, or have the integrated lights installed before it is shipped (not recommended). Putting the integrated lights on is really challenging. It goes in the bottom of the head tube, so you have to slide the forks out. Also, check your pedals. I put mine on the correct sides, but I should have done just a bit more tightening, as one fell off, and I didn't have my pedal wrench. I thought I had stripped the threads, as I couldn't get it in. It finally went in once I got home. These bikes don't work well with only one pedal. . . . good to know! Maybe Bosch could take the governor chip off the CXs and just ship the bike with one pedal. This would assure that everyone would go under 20mph. . . .I will contact them today and let them know I've already tested this idea.

    In my opinion the bike is not worth retail price. But then, again, neither are the CX models. I talked to a lot of dealers and there seemed to be a consensus that most people just don't want to dish out 5k or more on a 20mph bike. . . . I totally agree.

    If you do get a "tuned" CX, make sure you live near the dealer that did it. If it ships modified and there's a problem, find out what the steps are and get something in writing. I was going to get a KTM with a CX from Performance Bikes. I talked to the KTM people in Florida and they said "Yeah, we help the customers modify their bikes; it's easy". I called again to confirm and another person said that I had been misinformed and it would void the warranty.

    Well, I've got to ride my bike home, now. So far I haven't done a lot of off-roading, but I do commute 30 miles to work, about 1 mile is on a non-technical back road, horse path. I feel a bit guilty not riding more off road; because the bike loves the trail.

    I hope this was helpful. Lots of shops are getting these bikes, now. I highly recommend a test drive.
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2016
    vincent and grench like this.
  7. 2wheel

    2wheel New Member

    Jan, thanks for review and thoughts. I ended up going the other direction, and got a hard seven with the CX motor. I'll be doing a bit more mountain biking, so the extra torque but lower top speed seemed like a reasonable tradeoff.

    I did get a chance to demo the Specialized S Turbo, which seems to have both the torque and the higher speed limit (and was great fun to ride) but isn't suitable for off road.
  8. Jan

    Jan Member

    Thank you for your input. Indeed I can see where the torque would come in handy. I do commute with mine; albeit a small portion is off road, and I didn't think a speed commuter could handle it. Although I have tested some worthy urban rides. I did try out many of the Bulls models with the Brose mid drive. At the risk of being "hater bait", I did not find them as smooth as the Bosch. There is just no beating Bosch. In my humble opinion the Izip Transx mid-drive is the distant second to Bosch. Transx motors are extremely underrated mid-drives. If one can tolerate the gear mashing and the chain trowing (which calms down, once you learn its sensitivity), these bikes are great. One thing many overlook in these Izip bikes is the 73n/m. That's great torque.

    Are you planning to get your CX "tuned"? If so, keep us posted.
  9. 2wheel

    2wheel New Member

    I might try the Badass box at some point, as it's appears simple to install and easy to remove. I know it throws off the reported speed, etc, but that would not be too problematic for me. If I do get one, I'll report back.
    Jan likes this.
  10. Jan

    Jan Member

    Thank you, Please let us know.
  11. Jan

    Jan Member

    Well, I now have an official 500 big ones on my 'new' Fullseven S RX. I did some off-roading today and had an epiphany: @2wheel is totally correct. If you're buying a Haibike exclusively for off-roading, go with the higher torque. I realized that going off-road is fun, but it is not my preference for the predominance of my rides. I really like pavement riding, and with the compromising structure of the streets today, that dual suspension totally rocks (literally).

    I like to ride off road about 20% of the time and at minimal to medium technical difficulty. I like riding alone and without a cell phone, so cliffs that end in a bouncing bolder climb is not what I consider "fun". Don't get me wrong, I like taking rocky terrain and I do ride at night, but considering I've grown fond of my teeth and what joint movement I have left, I'll pass on the Alpha-Male downhill gavel pit rides.

    With that in mind, I can say that my decision to go with the Fullseven S RX was perfect. Since I do love my pavement rides, the speed has really proven to be an asset. So I would qualify this bike as a great "all-rounder", leaning more toward the road rider. Even with the off-road tires, the bike is still smooth, and I don't hesitate to pull off for a quick "shoulder" ride. It does surprisingly well in soft sand, in limited patches.

    As I noted in another post, if you're buying a MTB exclusively for going off-road (70-100%), get the Bosch CX motor. If you can't reach that price, opt for the Yamaha or the Brose before surrendering to the Performance Line (even the Speed Performance Line). If you ride 50/50, get two bikes. I don't transport my bikes to go riding; I ride to where I'm going to ride. Because I don't have a car. So, again, the Fullseven is great.

    I'm really glad I came to this realization today. I was seriously contemplating buying a Fat Tire (I've had two fat tire hub drives already). Now I realize why I wound up selling both. I'm just not a serious off-road rider.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 23, 2016
    vincent likes this.
  12. Mark Peralta

    Mark Peralta Well-Known Member

    I have the tranzx 350 watt mid drive and I also test ridden a bosch performance line. The bosch is without a doubt the better engineered machine and has perfected the energy consumption where the Tranzx cannot touch. The bosch has a shift sensor but no brake power cut off. If you are used to smooth shifting on a non electric bike (timed shifting when the crank is at vertical position) you will have no problem with the Bosch. The Tranzx has no shift sensor and slightly touching the brake to power cutoff while shifting causes the pads to slightly touch too and slow down the bike. So I am forced to momentarily stop pedaling before shifting which feels very unnatural.

    Lately I discovered that adding magnets to the brake sensor made the cut off more sensitive to a very slight touch to the brake handle so that when I shift, the brake pads are not touching. Now I can smooth-shift again (no banging, no grinding) even at a cadence of 100.

    When it comes to raw power and speed, both Tranzx and Bosch performance line are similar (slight advantage to Tranzx due to higher voltage, 48v vs 36v). However, Tranzx loses on refinement and energy efficiency.

    Where the Tranzx shines over the Bosch is the twist throttle, I don't have to down shift when stopping. The throttle takes care of the acceleration back to cruising speed.
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2016
  13. MLB

    MLB Well-Known Member

    I have Schwalbe Super Moto X street tires on my FS RX and they RULE! Really really nice and I am so spoiled by the wonderful suspension that my other bikes get very little use.
    We don't have squat for hills here. For the off roading I've done there is plenty of power from the Bosch.
  14. Sweetwater

    Sweetwater New Member

    I am so stoked about this specific bike model. I bought one in January and have 260 miles on it. I have had two problems with it, a broken Magura rear brake lever/piston/reservoir and failure to seal on the tubeless rear tire. Fortunately, Magura stepped up with a replacement lever which still cost me installation and bleeding (it doesn't match the original either). Additional sealer fixed the tire issue. I got the Bosch Performance version and have discovered a software upgrade that is available in Europe, will be available in the USA in July 2017. It replaces the 3rd boost level with a variable boost which is supposed to increase efficiency and extend battery life. The Haibike dealers I've spoken with have not been aware of this upgrade and I'm hoping to stir the pot with my first post here. Anyone?

    Edit: Review of EMTB mode here http://ebike-mtb.com/en/emtb-mode-bosch-cx-review/
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2017
  15. Sweetwater

    Sweetwater New Member

    This bike now has 600 miles on it and I continue to be stoked on it.
    Rode an 11 mile route up a local canyon with 3000 ft elevation gain.
    Fifth time for this ride this summer and the first time my battery management worked out.
    I mostly used Tour mode with some Sport but no Turbo. Previous trips had the battery life ending near the top.
    This ride had maybe 10% battery remaining.
    Only new issue has been the cable clips loosening but I caught that before they were lost.
  16. Sweetwater

    Sweetwater New Member

    Some new data on my bike.
    Mileage is 940.
    I needed a new rear tire at 850 miles, same Nobby Nic 27.5/2.25, a bit narrower.
    I just got a tune up and checked the software for update, May 2016 replaced by newest version.
    I've put on around 30 miles since and I notice some improvements.
    Smoother torque and a bit better efficiency on the battery life.
    I need to take that canyon ride to compare but rain/snow is coming.
    Oh, several of the brackets have needed tightening, none lost yet.
    Brakes are still good.
  17. Sweetwater

    Sweetwater New Member

    I've been riding the clear days so another 100+ miles, over 1000 now.
    The tune up and software update are holding up nicely.
    I've really got the itch for the 500Wh battery so I've been watching the 2017 model closeouts.
    The 2017 version of this bike is the FullSeven S 7.0
    It has the exact same components as the 2016, orange graphics and the 500Wh battery.
    It's also got an MSRP that's $1000 higher, wow. I can buy the 500Wh battery for that amount and
    keep the same bike which is now nicely set up for my uses. Looks like a case of price inflation to me.
    tallpaul likes this.
  18. tallpaul

    tallpaul Member

    I also really like my 2016 FullSeven RX. Outfitted with good components, shifts really well, brakes are phenomenal, Bosch system works flawlessly, smooth, responsive, plenty of power and I am happy to have the 28mph capability occasionally, typically on roads, not trails.
    Just hit 1100 miles with no issues. Did have a loose fitting at the rear brake lever (Magura M5's) which necessitated tightening down on the fitting and bleeding the brakes. Bleeding the brakes is a bit tricky, but once you get the hang of it is fairly straightforward process. Magura supplied he brake bleed kit under warranty. Good responsive company, which not only supplies Haibike with their brakes but I believe are the Haibike reps in the US.

    When I bought the bike I put on Maxxis 2.8 inch Ikons which are really holding up well, and gives it a considerable upgrade in tire width as opposed to the stock 2.4 Schwalbe Nobby Niks. I think 2.8 is the widest I can go. I'd like to put on 3.o's but not sure they will clear everything. Anybody know about this?

    My first eBike, actually my first bike in over 50 years, and I love it. My bad knees are better for it. I gave up my 2012 BMW R1200R, which was one amazing piece of machinery, and find my Haibike much more satisfying, healthful, and more calming.
    Pic at Mission Bay Bike Path, San Diego, CA

    Sweetwater likes this.
  19. tallpaul

    tallpaul Member

    I also got the itch for the 500W battery but at around $900 I think I'll hang in there with the 400W on the bike. What I have done is to learn to use the power and the gears in as smooth and efficient manner possible, thus extending the range.
    The range will probably drop as the holidays roll in and I eat and drink my way to added pounds. Oh well, a good trade off.
    Sweetwater likes this.
  20. MLB

    MLB Well-Known Member

    I get the itch and drool over some of the new E bikes but the FS RX is such a good bike it does't make any sense to swap it for the riding I do. Mine has Super MotoX tires and spends most of it's time on paved bike path in our city. The suspension has me able to ride an upright bike for the first time in almost 20 years. Rode recumbents and still have a tadpole trike with hub motor. People complain about the high prices all the time but I've never been anything but happy about the money I spent on my haibike.
    Sweetwater likes this.
  21. rich c

    rich c Active Member

    I upgraded to the 500whr on the 2016 XDURO S RX Trekking I bought this spring. $300 swap out when everything was brand new. So I swap the 400 and 500 back and forth between the XDURO Full Seven S RX and the Trekking S RX. I've gone 55 miles on the 500 pack with 2 bars showing on the Trekking. Heck of a way to get a second pack, but buying a 2016 in March 2017 was a real bargain!
    Sweetwater likes this.