Haibike Full Fat Six: could not resist anylonger

PSBenoit

New Member
Hei there ebike fans.
Now that I belong to the ebike community, I thought I would give it a spin.
Am leaving in probably what it is the least bike friendly city in the US, where you are more a target on your bike than anything else, ...still, after seeing that 2016 bike review here and the online catalog, I could not resist any longer...had to get one of those full fat six....
...and I do not think I had that much fun in my entire cyclist life. It is super heavy (over 50lbs), quite a bit of rolling resistance, but with the top 2 levels of assistance I am at 20mph without breaking a sweat on the road.
Fun on the road, ...an absolute blast off road. Managed to find a few places last week end to put dirt on it. Exhilarating is not exaggerating.
Quick word on the Yamaha motor: I realized I was never spinning over 70rpm, so the motor configuration is more than OK with me. Super quiet and really gives quite a boost, but in a way that really feels natural (or otherwise said which really makes you think you are back in your 20s).
I just wish I had some more battery life (that rolling resistance, ...in the top 2 assistant modes running dry after about 40miles), and I wish Yamaha could develop a similar module to the Bosch Nyon controller with their advanced GPS.
Anyone interested in cool week end rides in the Houston South West area (Sugar Land), let me know.
Happy ride.
 

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pxpaulx

Well-Known Member
I believe the 2017 models have a 500wh battery that could provide some extra range.
Either way, jealous as that is a sweet bike, congrats!
 

PSBenoit

New Member
This is the 2017 model so I have the latest 500W battery indeed, ...still find the battery life short. I guess this bike model is the one that drains juice the most (weight, rolling resistance).
 

Dmitri

Active Member
This is the 2017 model so I have the latest 500W battery indeed, ...still find the battery life short. I guess this bike model is the one that drains juice the most (weight, rolling resistance).
Just ordered one. And you can have a 3rd-party battery of any size you want.
 

Dmitri

Active Member
@Dmitri Are there reliable, higher wh batteries available that plug and play with the Haibike/Yamaha?
Well, this probably needs explaining. Basically, some time ago someone (on EndlessSphere, I think) reverse engineered the Yamaha battery protocol and then, someone else on the German Pedelecforum designed a dongle that allowed a 'conventional' ebike battery to be connected to the Yamaha drive. So that's where this ability to run 3rd-party batteries comes from: you can either use a secondary battery in parallel (in which case you don't need any extra hardware) or use exclusively a 3rd-party battery (in which case you do actually need a dongle).

As far as the batteries themselves, there are three ways to go. You can obviously get a battery on Aliexpress/Ebay/whatever and there are plenty of quality ones. For example, you can get a battery in a plastic case, just like the Bosch/Yamaha ones, but those batteries are typically 500Wh -- good if you just want to double your range and have a place to put it. Yyou're looking to pay around $250-$500 for such a pack (example). I like this rack battery which is 874Wh: if you already have a 500Wh on the front, this would more than double your range.

Then there are just 'raw' batteries without casings. These include triangular batteries (to fit most bicycle frames) and can have large capacity. For example, this one is 1kWh. These typically come with soft, rather than hard, cases.

And then there's the third and best option when it comes to all of this... ordering a custom battery to be built. Why would you do this, well...
  • You can be sure that you battery uses high-quality cells. Chinese sellers may claim they're all using 18650 Samsung cells and whatever, but how do you know? I trust custom battery maker more.
  • You get the battery designed to exactly the shape you want. This gives you the best fit to your frame/rack/whatever.
  • You get whatever USB/power outputs you want. Do you want that spiffy 36V Supernova M99 Pro light everyone lusts about? Well you can't have it because Yamaha still doesn't support that output (maybe they do on newer motors, not sure)... but with a custom battery, you can have your cake and eat it. Front action camera with stabilizer? Rear view camera? Grip warmers? You can have it all.
So those are the options. And yes, you can make a battery yourself if you want. So long as it's li-ion, 36V and has a BMS, you can connect it to a Haibike (directly via dongle, or in parallel).
 
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@Dmitri Thank you for all that info. So for aftermarket batteries it pretty much comes down to where you can carry it.

I found this while searching for Yamaha batteries: https://ebikemarketplace.com/products/sea-lion-36v-battery?variant=30491286533&_vsrefdom=adwords&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIrpiv1IzJ2wIVzSWBCh0f0A30EAQYASABEgLHl_D_BwE

It has a key but not sure if it’s designed to click in to the Haibike frame. 756 Wh would be very nice.

Since the technology is already available I don’t understand why manufacturers keep producing underpowered ebikes. Stromer gets it. Juiced gets it. Bulls is getting there.

And I just bought an underpowered Haibike FullNine 6 (Yamaha), since I was able to get a great deal on a 2017 closeout. But I would have preferred a Bulls with the 650 Wh battery.
 

Dmitri

Active Member
@Dmitri
Since the technology is already available I don’t understand why manufacturers keep producing underpowered ebikes. Stromer gets it. Juiced gets it. Bulls is getting there.
You make it sound like 1kWh is enough... I'm not sure it is. If I had to estimate the amount of 18650 cells you could stick into the triangle of a typical frame, I'd estimate available space to be worth 2.5-3kWh (@36V of course) if we were to incorporate dual powertube-style batteries (R&M Supercharger-style). If I had to guess how many cells I could stick into my Salsa Blackborow, the answer is 'a huge amount'. And without the price distortion that Bosch, Yamaha and others introduce to the battery market. Charging $700 for 500Wh (basicaly a bunch of 18650 cells and a proprietary magical BMS) is weird.

And BTW the battery you link to is just a bespoke battery, it will not clip into your frame. There are Yamaha-compatible aftermarket batteries but look at the price -- I'm not sure it's worth it.
 
It is a good point - what is enough? 1kWh will get most people through their round-trip commute. I ride 20-25 miles once or twice daily, and it would get me through that, whereas now I have to charge in between.

The price on that battery is high, but for 612Wh is sure is better than buying a 2nd Yamaha battery. Thanks for sending.