Help with first time ebike

fristiac

New Member
The pedals on a Sur-Ron are merely rotating foot rests. Oh yeah, and to quickly ghost ride with them when police or a conservation policeman is spotted! To suggest otherwise is hilarious!
Hah, that's what I thought.
I also do want to use it as exercise though. Probs wont get this one otherwise
 

Thomas Jaszewski

Well-Known Member
Hah, that's what I thought.
I also do want to use it as exercise though. Probs wont get this one otherwise
There isn't a single state where it's a legal road vehicle. Now there are posts suggesting it's possible to run it at speeds beyond any current USA highway maximum. That bunch has some decent talent but leadership has "skipped the light fandango."
 

fristiac

New Member
Very different motors, I support Bafang kits and am quite fond of Biktrix. You’ll have to research a bit more and decide. Can you do your own maintenance or will your LBS support a bike purchased from a direct to customer sale? I’d be happier with LBS support, but those Bafang motors are darn powerful and fast!
That's the thing. I would want the bafang motors cause I've test driven a few 350W-500W motors, while they felt nice while climbing hills, they lacked the 'oomph' I was expecting.
 

fristiac

New Member
There isn't a single state where it's a legal road vehicle. Now there are posts suggesting it's possible to run it at speeds beyond any current USA highway maximum. That bunch has some decent talent but leadership has "skipped the light fandango."
I know,
Wouldnt buying one of these essentially mean that you just trust yourself to keep yourself safe.
If I got one I wouldnt drive over 28 just cause laws. It's always nice knowing you have the option to burst out though, say either on roads where there is no-one(and US is huge, I'm sure there is places like this. )
 

Thomas Jaszewski

Well-Known Member
it will NEVER be a legal highway/street vehicle. That opens all sorts of pitfalls. No insurance, no liability coverage, nothing but problems should anything go wrong. It's not the same as buying a Maserati and driving at Model A speeds. The cage is a legal vehicle, requiring operators licensing, insurance, and the cage meets minimum safety standards.

The importers have a very good support page. You're best off discussing the bike there. Most here are adult eBike riders. And responsible adult riders too. There are dozens of similar designs. Just not much interest here. endless_sphere has hundreds of threads covering that class eBike looking vehicles.


Screen shot of one such bikes performance. A lot can be learned from theses fellows. But unfortunately I think the class is due for some serious legal problems down the road. I'd definitely build one if there were a clear path to licensing and insuring.

20190722_221525.jpg
=6&t=23996

Screen shot of one such bikes performance.

20190926-093747.jpg
P7R desert.jpg
DSC_4287 (Medium).jpg
Motor.png
 
That's the thing. I would want the bafang motors cause I've test driven a few 350W-500W motors, while they felt nice while climbing hills, they lacked the 'oomph' I was expecting.
I think the level of 'oomph' is less to do with the wattage and more to do with the design. A typical 10W LED light bulb produces more light than a typical 60W incandescent because one is far more efficient than the other, so there's more to it than just how fast the motor can drain the battery!

Many e-bikes, and this is especially true of mid-drive e-bikes, look for opportunities to back off on the torque to extend range. A mid-drive e-bike will almost always be using more torque up a hill than on the flat, even if set to the same level of assist. This is why some hub motor bikes feel stronger off the line than many mid-drive e-bikes, despite the mid-drives often being stronger (especially on the hills). This isn't a bad thing, slower acceleration when the light goes green not only extends the bike's range, but it's better for the bike's longevity.
 
Last edited:

Alaskan

Well-Known Member
I know,
Wouldnt buying one of these essentially mean that you just trust yourself to keep yourself safe.
If I got one I wouldn't drive over 28 just cause laws. It's always nice knowing you have the option to burst out though, say either on roads where there is no-one(and US is huge, I'm sure there is places like this. )
You obviously have a sound instinct for self preservation.

Cycling is a risky activity, even when one takes all due precautions and is very alert, bad things can still happen. When they happen at twice the speed it can cause four times the damage and injury.
 

fristiac

New Member
I think the level of 'oomph' is less to do with the wattage and more to do with the design. A typical 10W LED light bulb produces more light than a typical 60W incandescent because one is fare more efficient than the other, so there's more to it than just how fast the motor can drain the battery!

Many e-bikes, and this is especially true of mid-drive e-bikes, look for opportunities to back off on the torque to extend range. A mid-drive e-bike will almost always be using more torque up a hill than on the flat, even if set to the same level of assist. This is why some hub motor bikes feel stronger off the line than many mid-drive e-bikes, despite the mid-drives often being stronger (especially on the hills). This isn't a bad thing, slower acceleration when the light goes green not only extends the bike's range, but it's better for the bike's longevity.
I see.
What I was looking for was similar to pedego's bike except they have a fixed speed at each level. At eco for example, it takes you to 9mph as soon as you pedal irrespective of how fast you are pedaling.
I would want maybe a analog based on how much force I'm using.
 
I see.
What I was looking for was similar to pedego's bike except they have a fixed speed at each level. At eco for example, it takes you to 9mph as soon as you pedal irrespective of how fast you are pedaling.
I would want maybe a analog based on how much force I'm using.
In my experience, brand name mid-drive units will all attempt to assist you up to their max speed for every level of assist. They'll just try harder to do so in higher levels of assist.

I think the absolute best advice that I (or anyone) can give someone thinking about a bike is to ask yourself what kind of person you are.

Are you a do-it-yourselfer who has tools, has know-how, and enjoys tinkering? Then consider the "no-name" options that might save you some money and might give you the enjoyment of working on it. For purposes of this discussion, even though Pedego has a dealer network, I consider them a no-name option as they don't have the same kind of track record for quality and long-term parts availability that the brand name mid-drive companies have. And most local bike shops can't fully service a Pedego either.

Are you the kind of person who is going to want to keep your hands clean, prefer to purchase items that are low maintenance, and will want to avail yourself of the local bike shop for maintenance (both preventative and when something wears out or goes wrong)? Then go with a brand name bike with a motor from Shimano, Bosch, Yamaha, or Brose. I'd further investigate what electric system brands your preferred local bike shop is well-versed in. Choosing a bike shop can be as important, if not more important, than choosing a bike! Having said that, going with something that can be serviced at almost any shop is an advantage in case you travel with your bike, your favourite shop goes out of business, your favourite shop changes brands, etc. In that vein you might be better off going with Shimano STePS, Bosch, or Yamaha as they have big dealer networks. You might stay away from Specialized or Giant, as (despite making good products) it's my understanding that they have an expectation that you must go to one of their dealers for full service.

I can't recommend something similar to Pedego as they sell product that can't be fully serviced in most bike shops, so it's therefore something I would never purchase as I'm that latter kind of person who wants something that will both have few problems and a local bike shop that can solve what problems do crop up. I therefore mostly recommend Shimano STePS, Bosch, and Yamaha.

If you want to get the best possible shifting go Bosch. If you want the best range and best overall value, go Shimano STePS. STePS-equipped bikes will tend to be cheaper than Bosch bikes for a given amount of torque, and when you pair that with Shimano's range advantage then Shimano has the best overall bang for the buck IMO. That's especially true since Shimano's batteries are significantly cheaper, or at least they are here in Canada, so long-term maintenance of the bike may be cheaper with Shimano over Bosch as well. Yamaha probably has the second-largest bang for the buck, as they also seem to have a range advantage over Bosch overall. Brose makes some good systems too, and I ride a Brose system myself, but I see them more as competition for Bosch as they're more focused on the high end and their range isn't competitive with Shimano or Yamaha in my experience.

If you're a do-it-yourselfer, then you might consider Bafang, etc. You will save some money in the short term. Whether you save money overall in the long term once the life of the bike and long-term servicing costs are factored in is a different question though. I recently helped someone replace a Rad Power bike that he'd burned through in a few years with a bike with STePS 6100. He is a do-it-yourselfer and was taking care of the problems as they cropped up, and he was succeeding thus far but he was concerned with the growing frequency of maintenance. He concluded he was perhaps 9-15 months away from his luck running out and something happening that he couldn't repair, so (despite being an accomplished do-it-yourselfer) he decided to go the bike shop route for his second e-bike.

So which kind of consumer you are is the first question to answer, IMO. Everything should flow pretty smoothly from there.
 
Last edited:

Feliz

Well-Known Member
My experience is exactly opposite yours. Mid-drives motors have less rotating mass than hub motors, and that contributes to mid-drive bikes pedalling much better than hub motor bikes with the motor off. Some rides I'll even turn the motor off for some flat sections of the ride on my 43 pound mid-drive e-bike. Many brand name mid-drive bikes are in the 40-50 pound range and pedal very well. I have yet to find a long-range hub motor bike that's as lightweight as a typical brand name mid-drive bike.

I'd rather wear my chain out faster than get a broken spoke. I can predict the chain wear, but the broken spoke (more common on hub motors than mid-drives) can be a huge downer on a ride. And they now make hardened e-bike chains for mid-drives that wear very slowly.

And Brose mid-drives appear to be the king of low-drag mid-drives, not Yamaha. Though I've found all of them to be very good.
My experience is the same as Mass's.......or is that Deduction's?😏 Anyway, another poster offering good advice.