How do you define the ideal electric touring bicycle?

BBassett

Active Member
Through after some time with technical advances your "large" battery will become smaller and i'm guessing you will up the ante and still keep it large, or you will fine tune how much gear you tour with and probably require less Ah.
I don't really care about "smaller"... but lighter would be great! Give me 60Ah is the same battery size and weight and I would be in heaven. I like amenities, being clean both showered, my clothes and my gear. I like options, being able to sleep where best suits me, the ability to cook with gas if I don't want to gather wood. Enough clothes and gear to stay warm and comfortable all year 'round. Trust me when I say I have "fine-tuned" what I take with me over the last couple of years. When I am close to home I get to vary those amenities depending on the season and what I want to be doing. Last month I was gold-panning on the white river for a few days. Next week I will load all my kites and spend some time on the coast.
 

Over50

Well-Known Member
LOL! That's what I thought. A small battery has no advantage over a large battery other than just the weight and purchase price. But they do have several disadvantages, like having to charge more slowly, they have less usable range, small batteries get "cooked" faster since users fill and deplete them far too often cutting their usable life in half, must have multiple charges or charge one at a time. Great argument Mr. lix.
First you started the argument that one big battery is better than running a modular system that uses two small batteries (with strange analogies to filling a car's gas tank). Then you shifted to a big battery beats a small battery. Unfortunate to bog down the thread in argumentative minutia which seems to be your M.O. But returning to your first attack on the dual battery concept (which you initiated). Here are the advantages I have found with experience on two bikes:
  • I can run 1 or 2 batteries dependent on my need - this can range from less than 400 WH to up to 1000 - with the newer PowerTube, it will range at less than 625 WH (625 battery not fully charged) to 1125.
  • Running two batteries means I don't have to fully charge either - and usually I don't. I often charge both to about 80% and for most of my needs, I don't run them below 20%
  • As someone else pointed out, the Bosch system manages the draw, alternating batteries
  • I can fit my PPs into a small to medium sized backpack
  • Batteries are UL certified and backed by a warranty
And I always know how far I'm riding on a given day so why pack battery capacity for 70 miles if I'm only riding 20? I can shed 5-7 pounds and run a 400 WH pack charged to 80% for a 20 mile ride.

And for the one small battery argument. Yes, I have to charge more often and for a full commute I have to fully charge prior to departure. But I've had my Haibike over 2 years (no telling how long it sat in a warehouse before being delivered to me) and I've noticed no degradation. I'm still able to get over 50 miles on a charge on that battery in good weather.
 

Mr. Coffee

Well-Known Member
I'm in the middle of my second long tour with 3 500whr Bosch Powerpacks. That system is working quite well for me, and lets me ride 60-70 miles in mountainous terrain over the course of a day, and much further than that in gentler terrain.

In practice the "third" battery is rotated in and out and I rarely carry it with a full charge. I'll typically ride until I show one bar and then swap in the third battery.
 

BBassett

Active Member
First you started the argument that one big battery is better than running a modular system that uses two small batteries (with strange analogies to filling a car's gas tank). Then you shifted to a big battery beats a small battery. Unfortunate to bog down the thread in argumentative minutia which seems to be your M.O. But returning to your first attack on the dual battery concept (which you initiated). Here are the advantages I have found with experience on two bikes:
  • I can run 1 or 2 batteries dependent on my need - this can range from less than 400 WH to up to 1000 - with the newer PowerTube, it will range at less than 625 WH (625 battery not fully charged) to 1125. So the advantage of two battery is that you can use two batteries?
  • Running two batteries means I don't have to fully charge either - and usually I don't. I often charge both to about 80% and for most of my needs, I don't run them below 20% You can do the same with large batteries and greater range.
  • As someone else pointed out, the Bosch system manages the draw, alternating batteries. With big batteries, you don't need the gimmicks.
  • I can fit my PPs into a small to medium sized backpack. I don't carry things on my bike when I ride.*
  • Batteries are UL certified and backed by a warranty. I wouldn't have it any other way.
And I always know how far I'm riding on a given day so why pack battery capacity for 70 miles if I'm only riding 20? I can shed 5-7 pounds and run a 400 WH pack charged to 80% for a 20 mile ride.

And for the one small battery argument. Yes, I have to charge more often and for a full commute I have to fully charge prior to departure. But I've had my Haibike over 2 years (no telling how long it sat in a warehouse before being delivered to me) and I've noticed no degradation. I'm still able to get over 50 miles on a charge on that battery in good weather.
Chill man, imagine me smiling with everything I say if it makes you more comfortable. You chose the term "Argument" I choose "Comment". And real fast... isn't "one big battery is better", and "a big battery beats a small battery" the same thing Mr. 50? Not sure where I tripped you up on that comment or attack since it seems to have struck a chord. With 1.3Kw batteries @ 58.3V I don't have to fully charge and get well over 70 miles range... usually. That's the biggest advantage of a large pack as I said, longer range and no stress. And of course the larger the batteries capacity, the more possible range and/or speed you can obtain depending on how you want to spend it... kinda like a gas tank one could say. Although a full gas tank does weight more when full, unlike a lithium battery, which is pretty much exactly the same weight regardless of how fully charged. *The only thing I ever carry on my back while riding is a wine-skin or camera. Always knowing how far and where you're riding is ok for power management when you know where you're power is coming from every night but must take a lot of the fun out of riding. If ya need help on advantages of small batteries over large try these: Cost, weigh (especially if you have to carry it on your back), and redundancy in case of failure. Oh, Wait! One more advantage, it doesn't take nearly as long to charge the battery with a small battery.
 

WilliamT

Active Member
I did a 128 mile ride yesterday with my Radwagon. I used a 13.5 ah battery in the frame and (2) 17.4 ah batteries; one in each pannier. 90% of the ride was on gravel and trails. With the weight of the bike, the cooler I was carrying, food, tools, etc, the bike was probably over 120 lbs.

I kept it in eco mode which gave me 208 watts but eventually down to 180 as the battery slowly drained. It took me 9 hrs but I did take a break every 15 miles. It was my first time going over 100. Usually I just do 60-80 mile rides. It was a lot of fun.

Met another person on the trail that was completing his 1000 mile multi-day ride. He was telling me about a couple that was on a tandem that rode from Portland to here on the east coast near DC.

My modified cargo was pretty comfortable except I think my seat was too soft. After 110 miles, my butt was getting sore. I think I need a stiffer seat. I was using a soft touring gel seat.

I probably could have gone farther if I had better gauge to read the voltage. (Only had bars to read and was at 2 bars when I decided to swap the batteries). When I came home, my 17ah 52v batteries (58.7 v fully charged) were still reading 49v.

The next time I do this, I'm going to get a better seat. Also wear long sleeve as some of those trails narrow and you get whipped a lot in the arms and legs. Maybe one of those sun hats on the bike helmet too.


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BBassett

Active Member
I did a 128 mile ride yesterday with my ....
Nice job man. That's a long ride on any bike. You must have taken better pics than that one! Come on! Stop holding out. :) When I load my bike the way you did it becomes way too light in the front. I have found that it's better (for me) to put between 15 and 20 lbs. in each front pannier, along with a couple of bar-bags and then distribute any other weight on the back of the bike. I use a FAIV front rack that carries the weight suspended so it rides smooth and with great control still. I usually move between 10 and 15 mph. when heavily loaded. 120+ miles in 9 hours is good.
 

WilliamT

Active Member
Nice job man. That's a long ride on any bike. You must have taken better pics than that one! Come on! Stop holding out. :) When I load my bike the way you did it becomes way too light in the front. I have found that it's better (for me) to put between 15 and 20 lbs. in each front pannier, along with a couple of bar-bags and then distribute any other weight on the back of the bike. I use a FAIV front rack that carries the weight suspended so it rides smooth and with great control still. I usually move between 10 and 15 mph. when heavily loaded. 120+ miles in 9 hours is good.
Thanks, I looked up the front rack but didn't see any place where I can purchase this in the US. I have another hardtail that I plan to convert for long distance riding and would be interested in installing it on that bike.
 

BBassett

Active Member
Thanks, I looked up the front rack but didn't see any place where I can purchase this in the US. I have another hardtail that I plan to convert for long distance riding and would be interested in installing it on that bike.
The manufacturer only sells in Europe. If you go online there are companies that you can purchase from manufacturers like them and have items shipped directly to you.