How do you define the ideal electric touring bicycle?

webcurl

Active Member
Odd that I own mine in Washington State then I guess. There are services that you can buy anything in Europe and have it sent anywhere else.
What's also odd is that you already explained how you arrived at owning a Faiv Hoogar whilst living in the US. :


BBassett said:


Steel frame, 26 X 2" wheels (32 spoke front/36 spoke rear), disc brakes (minimum 180mm), full air suspension, integral rear rack, suspended front rack, Rohloff Speed-hub, dynamo front hub, a great front light, 1000W mid-drive w/throttle, center-stand, fenders, mirrors, full set of water-proof panniers and bar bag(s), 2 X 30Ah lithium packs, single wheel suspension trailer, 300W folding solar panel, and whatever toys you need to stay comfortable, i.e., a Fugoo XL Bluetooth waterproof speaker an absolute must for me. This is my definition of ideal.

Check out 70 miles w/front panniers & trailer on Relive! https://www.relive.cc/view/g37290970278
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipN67sUw0ykU-Mg5gLsOw9vF8kBMEM5cGCgCNmLT_j72h9iu5fKYFFVbLJ2Z415Umw?key=LUZqdEl1d3RjNV9id0ZvTEFickhITnBwWFZrU3hR

Click to expand...
Hi, did you get your Faiv Hoogar whilst in Europe?


BBassett
Active Member

Sep 2, 2019


I had the bike built and shipped from Germany, the Hoogar was an option. After a few thousand miles I had it modified to work better with Arkle locking hinges and love it! Then I crushed it and am now riding the couch as it is rebuilt and hopefully even better than it was.
 

john peck

Well-Known Member
I'd suggest using strips of rubber from an old bicycle inner tube rather than the sandpaper.

A lot of people deploy hose clamps that way to put anything cages and the like on suspension forks. For myself, I am a bit uneasy about it because the metal tube the outer part of a suspension fork is made of is very thin and a hose clamp can put a lot of force on that metal tube. So if you do so be damned careful to not over-tighten the hose clamp.
Done that too, but I wouldn't try it with handlebars.🤪
 

john peck

Well-Known Member
Naked and so light on the front end that it takes me a while to get used to her again I'm so used to having 15 to 55 lbs up there.
I set up my CCS in much the same as yours, but it was limited to asphalt & tame trails. I beat it up pretty good trying
challenging terrain. Those mondials last forever, but a mite skittish in tight turns, Right now I'm outfitting a lighter
German mtn. bike programmed for max. range, 21 spd., 13Ah & a spare 8Ah that charges in 2 hrs.
Despite being less powerful, & having less speed than the CCS, it has great range & climbs like a goat. It still fits bus racks,
good on the beach as well.
I'm getting too old to haul the stuff I used to. I'm down to a bar bag, inframe,
2 small panniers high up behind my thighs, & bivvy behind the seat. also small day pack.
 
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Stefan Mikes

Active Member
My definition of ideal touring e-bike is: One that can do 160 km (100 miles) with 1200 m (circa 4000 ft) elevation gain on a single battery charge, carrying a 107 kg (236 lbs) person and his equipment. So far, I found none to the specification ;)

Yes, there's a firm I know about and the guy can build custom recumbent e-trike up to any specification as long as you pay him handsomely. Then I'd need a larger garage and need to handle a 40 kg (88 lb) monster. I gave the idea up.
 

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webcurl

Active Member
My definition of ideal touring e-bike is: One that can do 160 km (100 miles) with 1200 m (circa 4000 ft) elevation gain on a single battery charge, carrying a 107 kg (236 lbs) person and his equipment. So far, I found none to the specification ;)

Yes, there's a firm I know about and the guy can build custom recumbent e-trike up to any specification as long as you pay him handsomely. Then I'd need a larger garage and need to handle a 40 kg (88 lb) monster. I gave the idea up.
Many e-bikes can fit the 'specification'. Problem is the specification is not defined:
How much pedal power input, terrain, tires, tire pressure, average elevation gain vs grade, wind, etc.
 

Stefan Mikes

Active Member
Problem is the specification is not defined:
How much pedal power input, terrain, tires, tire pressure, average elevation gain vs grade
True. At least the matter of the elevation gain is clear. The potential energy change is Δh * g * m. Assuming 100% efficiency, elevation gain 1200 m, total driver, bike and cargo mass of 140 kg, and gravity of 9. 81 kg/m^2, the potential energy change would be 1,648,080 J or 458 Wh. Of course there will be some rider's input but I would say it becomes dangerously close to the capacity of a typical e-bike battery. Now, the remaining factors are a big unknown, yet it is rare to get flat range of over 100 km / 60 mi under real trip conditions on a single charge. You also need to cover the 100 miles in 10 hours including stops.
 

BBassett

Active Member
My definition of ideal touring e-bike is: One that can do 160 km (100 miles) with 1200 m (circa 4000 ft) elevation gain on a single battery charge, carrying a 107 kg (236 lbs) person and his equipment. So far, I found none to the specification ;)

Yes, there's a firm I know about and the guy can build custom recumbent e-trike up to any specification as long as you pay him handsomely. Then I'd need a larger garage and need to handle a 40 kg (88 lb) monster. I gave the idea up.
Then I have been riding "your" ideal touring ebike for a few years now. I wouldn't want a recumbent for the simple reason they are too wide to easily navigate trails and single track. Bike pics: prior to Oct 2019:
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipN67sUw0ykU-Mg5gLsOw9vF8kBMEM5cGCgCNmLT_j72h9iu5fKYFFVbLJ2Z415Umw?key=LUZqdEl1d3RjNV9id0ZvTEFickhITnBwWFZrU3hR
 

Stefan Mikes

Active Member
I wouldn't want a recumbent for the simple reason they are too wide to easily navigate trails and single track. Bike pics: prior to Oct 2019:
Very impressive! I agree with you: trikes are only good for roads including fireroads. What size of battery was it and what motor?
 

john peck

Well-Known Member
That's a rather gigungous battery; How many Ah? Looks like a two wheeled RV all packed up. Where all have you taken it?
Maybe Stefan can pedal 100 miles in a day, but I've since discarded that ambition. 40 miles might not kill me....maybe.
Instead I can put my German mtn bike on a bus, carry on my panniers, & pleasantly enjoy the scenery without having
to worry about being blown off the road by a semi. Taking the bus 160 mi. down to Westport costs just $6.50
With a short ride from Kamilchi to McCleary, a senior pass, & a few transfers. From there it's a leisurely ride down
the Cranberry Coast Without out a lot of climbing or traffic in off season. My 2.25" tires are just narrow enough
for the bus rack, & just wide enough to run well on firm beach sand. It's no problem to pedal without power
on the flat. I've thought about changing the gearing a bit, but that would void the warranty. I'd post pictures,
but for some reason my old camera doesn't load into my newer PC. Maybe the wife can figure it out.
 

BBassett

Active Member
The pair of batteries are 28.4 and 30Ah packs, 17 lbs each. I don't need to see an ever-increasing capacity in battery evolution at this point (I have more range than I can ride easily), what I want to see is a drastic decrease in battery weight. Yes, she not only "looks like", but also feels like a huge RV when loaded. I ride around the Pacific Northwest, lots of riding in the Mount Rainer National Forest. I don't usually want to ride 100 miles but it's nice to know that you can when/if you want, that's one of the advantages of an ebike set up for touring over just going fast. If you are riding 20 or 30 miles on a standard bike on a regular basis you can easily double that with an ebike and not feel exhausted and sore from the ride. I'm with you... I hate riding in traffic. I do it... but when I can put 60 or 80 miles on the bike with no large vehicles it's a totally different ride, loaded or unloaded.
 

Stefan Mikes

Active Member
The point is, there are friends of mine who do the 100 miles with 4000 ft elevation gain on some days but they ride classical recumbent bikes. I thought to myself if I were lightly packed and rode 20 mph on my S-Pedelec, I could make a match. Five hours of riding plus necessary stops, taking not much of luggage (spare parts, tools and spare battery for sure, two chargers) might do the trick. However, I need to practice long rides more, tune the level of support and then give it a try.

P.S. Ampere-hours alone say nothing to me. At what voltage?
 

john peck

Well-Known Member
One thing I can do to extend range in to add my 8Ah kicker. I bought it as a spare for the CCS, It connects
with the same format as the NCM, but is 2" shorter. I've solved that by molding an adapter from non-toxic
Instamorph* moldable plastic,. What's nice is that the 8Ah fully charges in 2 hrs say at at lunch stop or local
library. I can use it to top grades & save the 13Ah for distance. The 13 will do 40 mi. if there's not a lot of
climbing; the 8 is good up to 20,(maybe). 14 is the most I've used it; it drains pretty fast. My 21Ah fits as
well but is quite heavy. My butt won't last that far anyway. This bike is more 'physical' than the CCS.
*ebay
** 48v, 500w geared hub
 
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BBassett

Active Member
P.S. Ampere-hours alone say nothing to me. At what voltage?
52V packs, fully charged to 58.8V or 1.7Kw. Sorry, 52V is pretty standard for me. I track my battery usage by how many amp-hours it takes to re-charge the battery. I did a 75-mile ride on 18.3 Ah. or 60% of the packs capacity. At that usage, I could possibly get over 1400 recharge cycles out of each pack. For touring on an ebike I decided that you almost can't go "light" unless running from one power outlet to another and that's not what I wanted. So I committed to a pair of large batteries, a Grin Satiator and a 300W folding solar panel totaling over 50 lbs. That meant pulling a single wheel suspension trailer for me. I originally wanted to carry everything for year-around touring but quickly realized I have more toys and luxuries that I can pull. So now I pack seasonally and try to keep things light'ish, I do love options.

These are from the ride I mentioned. - https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipMkRVq4xvx2DkXrfzc89vCAF_1t8xurENoUEIy4eDIliqQNFwqYkbgGOLXLEnbbxg?key=MHB3VjBySjVJV2l5VWVJZ1UyaU5QUWNnZnMtQXJn
 
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BBassett

Active Member
One thing I can do to extend range in to add my 8Ah kicker...
The problem with small batteries is that they are fully used almost every time. Fully charged and fully depleted (almost) cooking them and getting the fewest recharges over the life of the battery. You can actually charge large batteries "faster" at a higher amperage without stressing the cells... over 18 Ah in 4 hours. - https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipMkRVq4xvx2DkXrfzc89vCAF_1t8xurENoUEIy4eDIliqQNFwqYkbgGOLXLEnbbxg?key=MHB3VjBySjVJV2l5VWVJZ1UyaU5QUWNnZnMtQXJn
 
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john peck

Well-Known Member
She started with a BaFang BBS02 originally and now had a BBSHD (1.34 h.p./1000W) mid-drive and a pair of EM3 triangle pack 28 & 30Ah.
Damn, Basset, that's a lot of juice. My issue with mid-drives is that I have a bad habit of snapping chains or destroying
cassettes by failing to downshift soon enuff on the steep. At least I'm still mobile with a hub.
 

BBassett

Active Member
Damn, Basset, that's a lot of juice. My issue with mid-drives is that I have a bad habit of snapping chains or destroying
cassettes by failing to downshift soon enuff on the steep. At least I'm still mobile with a hub.
I went with a mid-drive Rohloff speed-hub combo. I can be in 14th gear... ride off a smooth surface at a good clip and roll up a steep incline and shift to 1st or 2nd gear in the blink of an eye. Never broke a chain, never ground a gear. If I do screw-up and have to stop on a hill to down-shift it's no problem since you don't pedal when shifting the Speed-hub. The Bafang and the Rohloff go together like women & suntan lotion.


 

webcurl

Active Member
True. At least the matter of the elevation gain is clear. The potential energy change is Δh * g * m. Assuming 100% efficiency, elevation gain 1200 m, total driver, bike and cargo mass of 140 kg, and gravity of 9. 81 kg/m^2, the potential energy change would be 1,648,080 J or 458 Wh. Of course there will be some rider's input but I would say it becomes dangerously close to the capacity of a typical e-bike battery. Now, the remaining factors are a big unknown, yet it is rare to get flat range of over 100 km / 60 mi under real trip conditions on a single charge. You also need to cover the 100 miles in 10 hours including stops.
Forgot to mention Temperature, Rim Width for tires, drive train, etc.
I have a 2018 R&M Supercharger (Bosch Performance CX, 2x500Wh batteries, Gates Belt, Rohloff, 25km/h) and recently did a small trip with no gear:
Total weight (me - 87kg & bike - 31kg): 118kg
Elevation: +1561m -1538m, Max Grade: +13.4% -13.7%, Avg grade: 0.6%
Pedal input (no throttle): Turbo mode - minimal (i call it lazy mode) (did take it easy on a small portion of the hills on way back (drop down from Turbo and use more gears))
Tires & Rims: 40mm Rims, Schwalbe Marathon Plus MTB front (57-584) - approx 50psi, Rear: Super Moto-X (62-584) - approx 45psi
Suspension: Active - not locked out
Temp: 15 - 33 Celcius
Wind: Mild & dry
Terrain: All sealed roads
Duration: Total: 10.5 hours, Moving time: 5 hours
Speed: Max 55.9kph, Avg 24.2kph
Distance: 124.2km - motor cutoff at approx 122km and kept lights on till end (Bosch keeps a reserve of battery for this).
 

BBassett

Active Member
Forgot to mention Temperature, Rim Width for tires, drive train, etc.
I have a 2018 R&M Supercharger (Bosch Performance CX, 2x500Wh batteries, Gates Belt, Rohloff, 25km/h) and recently did a small trip with no gear:
Total weight (me - 87kg & bike - 31kg): 118kg
Elevation: +1561m -1538m, Max Grade: +13.4% -13.7%, Avg grade: 0.6%
Pedal input (no throttle): Turbo mode - minimal (i call it lazy mode) (did take it easy on a small portion of the hills on way back (drop down from Turbo and use more gears))
Tires & Rims: 40mm Rims, Schwalbe Marathon Plus MTB front (57-584) - approx 50psi, Rear: Super Moto-X (62-584) - approx 45psi
Suspension: Active - not locked out
Temp: 15 - 33 Celcius
Wind: Mild & dry
Terrain: All sealed roads
Duration: Total: 10.5 hours, Moving time: 5 hours
Speed: Max 55.9kph, Avg 24.2kph
Distance: 124.2km - motor cutoff at approx 122km and kept lights on till end (Bosch keeps a reserve of battery for this).
Nice! My favorite stat is... "Duration: Total: 10.5 hours, Moving time: 5 hours". That means you spent a good part of the day and it wasn't all about covering distance. I wish the Gates belt drive would work on a suspended bike. Ride safe.