Is the CCS legal in Canada (BC)?

sshrinivasan

New Member
According to then law, the motor must "have continuous power output ratings that in total do not exceed 500 watts"

I read that the Bafang motor is "Electronically limited to 500W to meet Canadian law. User upgradeable to 650W for off road use". What does "User upgradeable" mean? If I go into the settings and allow "Sport Mode" and a top speed of "42 kph", is that changing the continuous power output of the motor past 500W?

Also, according the regulations the motor must "(c)not be capable of propelling the motor assisted cycle at a speed greater than 32 km/hr on level ground.". Does that mean legally I should only be operating in Eco, 1 or 2 mode, and 3 is illegal? I believe that mode 3 and Sport allow the motor to assist me past 32 kph, is that right?
 

Bruce Arnold

Well-Known Member
What that all means is that it's a software fix. The bikes come with software settings set to Canadian specs. The hardware is the same. You can change the software limits if you go into the setting module on the display.

Is that sufficient to be legal in Canada? No one knows until the first case goes to court and a judge decides. Until then, all we know is that Juiced is making a good-faith effort to provide their product to Canadians without having to have two separate manufacturing runs with different motors.

Honestly, these laws that specify wattage limits are inherently flawed, and I hope the court that gets the case will decide on that basis. Is there any motor that is not actually capable of putting out more horsepower than its nominal rating?
 

Timpo

Well-Known Member
I believe BC uses California classifications.

Class 1, 2 and 3.

Class 1 - 32km/h, no throttle, 500W limit
Class 2 - 32km/h, with throttle
Class 3 - 45km/h, no throttle

Class 1 is specified to 500W, however no specification on wattage for Class 2 and 3, probably due to the fact that so many Class 2 or 3 are 750W nominal (maximum is even higher)

Class 2 and 3 are "motor vehicle" and not permitted in environmentally sensitive area.
So I guess you can only ride it on asphalt.

 
I believe BC uses California classifications.

Class 1, 2 and 3.

Class 1 - 32km/h, no throttle, 500W limit
Class 2 - 32km/h, with throttle
Class 3 - 45km/h, no throttle

Class 1 is specified to 500W, however no specification on wattage for Class 2 and 3, probably due to the fact that so many Class 2 or 3 are 750W nominal (maximum is even higher)

Class 2 and 3 are "motor vehicle" and not permitted in environmentally sensitive area.
So I guess you can only ride it on asphalt.

Hi Timpo,

I like your description of the classes, I can only hope it’s accurate because it certainly doesn’t seem logical. Why would you have a separate class for a bike with a throttle. The throttle still only moves the bike forward, like peddling. And what if I have a bike w throttle that has a 750w motor (like the Voltbike Yukon 750) set to max speed of 40kph...what class is that? 2 or 3? I think it’s a class 2 because it’s limited to 32kph by the software.

As to your second point, I don’t think it has to do with wattage. I think the government is after setting speed regulations for bikes that will be travelling on bike paths with oldies and littles. Where people are used to the occasional hard peddler flying by at 30-40kph on the flats. They’re envisioning the motorized maniacs running down children and their grandmothers at 45+kph, so they want to restrict all e bikes to 32kph assisted or throttle. It’s not too hard or uncommon to hit 32kph on a flat paved bike path with a pedal bike.

Maybe I’m missing something but it seems to me Nominal output vs peak is a mute point, as long as the bike is limited to 32kph.
 

Timpo

Well-Known Member
Hi Timpo,

I like your description of the classes, I can only hope it’s accurate because it certainly doesn’t seem logical. Why would you have a separate class for a bike with a throttle. The throttle still only moves the bike forward, like peddling. And what if I have a bike w throttle that has a 750w motor (like the Voltbike Yukon 750) set to max speed of 40kph...what class is that? 2 or 3? I think it’s a class 2 because it’s limited to 32kph by the software.

As to your second point, I don’t think it has to do with wattage. I think the government is after setting speed regulations for bikes that will be travelling on bike paths with oldies and littles. Where people are used to the occasional hard peddler flying by at 30-40kph on the flats. They’re envisioning the motorized maniacs running down children and their grandmothers at 45+kph, so they want to restrict all e bikes to 32kph assisted or throttle. It’s not too hard or uncommon to hit 32kph on a flat paved bike path with a pedal bike.

Maybe I’m missing something but it seems to me Nominal output vs peak is a mute point, as long as the bike is limited to 32kph.
The example of Class 3 ebike is Stromer ST2 and ST5.

They're Class 3, Stromer ST5 has 850W motor, limited to 45km/h and no throttle.
As for your argument about throttle, the law perceives if you can reach 45km/h just by twisting a throttle, it's a motorcycle.
However, if you have to pedal, it's a pedal assisted bike.

The other example is Juiced CrossCurrent S, 45km/h top speed and no throttle.
However Juiced or Hilleater Bikes (Canadian Juiced distributor) offers throttle option. If you get a throttle, it's limited to 32km/h and you need to pedal to go beyond 32km/h. So the assist goes all the way up to 45km/h, but throttle feature will stop at 32km/h.

I know Volt Bikes, Pedego, Amego, etc... can be all set up to 40km/h with throttle.
However, I believe (not 100% sure) the throttle will stop at 32km/h, if you want to go beyond, you have to pedal and the bike will assist you up to 40km/h.
 

Captain Slow

Active Member
Timpo, that's my understanding and experience with my CCS. I can use the throttle but after 32 km/hr it does nothing. I don't really find a throttle useful. I greatly prefer the torque sensor and just peddle faster when I want to go faster.
 
I believe BC uses California classifications.

Class 1, 2 and 3.

Class 1 - 32km/h, no throttle, 500W limit
Class 2 - 32km/h, with throttle
Class 3 - 45km/h, no throttle

Class 1 is specified to 500W, however no specification on wattage for Class 2 and 3, probably due to the fact that so many Class 2 or 3 are 750W nominal (maximum is even higher)
[...]
BC's Motor Vehicle Act does not yet use the three class system. However, recent updates to BC Parks policy on e-bikes does use the 3 class system (and specifies that only class 1 can be used in BC parks). That doesn't prove it, but it strongly suggests the BC Parks regs were done in anticipation of forthcoming updates to the BC Motor Vehicle Act.

Another difference between Canada and the U.S. is a nationwide maximum of 500W for Canada, and limits as high as 750W in the U.S. Hey, now that we have a minority government in Canada, maybe it's a good time to press for updates to Transport Canada policies on e-bikes! Talk to your MP! :)
 

Timpo

Well-Known Member
BC's Motor Vehicle Act does not yet use the three class system. However, recent updates to BC Parks policy on e-bikes does use the 3 class system (and specifies that only class 1 can be used in BC parks). That doesn't prove it, but it strongly suggests the BC Parks regs were done in anticipation of forthcoming updates to the BC Motor Vehicle Act.

Another difference between Canada and the U.S. is a nationwide maximum of 500W for Canada, and limits as high as 750W in the U.S. Hey, now that we have a minority government in Canada, maybe it's a good time to press for updates to Transport Canada policies on e-bikes! Talk to your MP! :)
Just to be clear, 500W is NOT maximum, it's nominal.

When you see a ebike with "500W" , they're referring to nominal power.

I'm going to use Pedego as an example, just because they're one of popular ebike brands.
The Pedego Interceptor has 1058W, but it is rated as 500W because of nominal power.
https://pedegoelectricbikes.ca/product/interceptor-platinum-edition/

Same as Volt, Amego, Juiced, anything. They typically have 700W to 1000W max power, but rated as 500W because of nominal power.

When you see USA and Canada's 500W or 750W rating, they're referring to nominal. It was debated over Rad Power section, and because the max power is the same, in reality, it is probably unlikely the rider will notice any difference.
 
Timpo I’m not sure your post speaks to the point being made here. In canada the law is that bikes be limited to 500w nominal power. This is regulated federally through the Department of Transportation, however, there has very recently been a media release about the Federal Government initiating legislation that will allow municipalities and provinces and I believe provincial parks (though they may already have had power to regulate motorized vehicles in their jurisdiction) to regulate electric motorized transportation devices including segues and scooter and bikes and anything else. So the point about lobbying your politicians is a good one, it just seems like your time would best be spent at the local and provincial level rather than federal.

So, back to the current legislation, regardless of the nominal wattage capability claimed by a particular motor the battery and controller are not allowed to demand greater than 500w nominal output from the motor. For example, volt bike is supposed to send their Canadian bikes with monitors set to 10a max, multiply by 48a battery equals 480W max nominal power demanded from the motor (or course peak demand will be much higher, more than double in most cases, but the legislation seems to ignore this fact). When Voltbike ships their bikes with 750w motors to the US they simply set the monitor to 15a, multiply by 48a battery equals 720W max nominal power demanded from the motor. Of course, Canadians can simply go into the monitor settings and change the amperage allowed to travel through the controller and get more power than legally allowed, but that is decision left to the operator of the bike.
 
Just to be clear, 500W is NOT maximum, it's nominal.
...
When you see USA and Canada's 500W or 750W rating, they're referring to nominal. It was debated over Rad Power section, and because the max power is the same, in reality, it is probably unlikely the rider will notice any difference.
Do you know where you get that interpretation from?

The US federal definition of a "Low-speed electric bicycle" is defined in 15 U.S.C. 2085(b). It reads as follows:
  • For the purpose of this section, the term “low-speed electric bicycle” means a two- or three-wheeled vehicle with fully operable pedals and an electric motor of less than 750 watts (1 h.p.), whose maximum speed on a paved level surface, when powered solely by such a motor while ridden by an operator who weighs 170 pounds, is less than 20 mph.

The fact that 1hp is mentioned might be telling. 1HP is 745 watts, close to 750 watts. Meanwhile, I have never seen a "nominal" horsepower rating for an engine; it is always a maximum. However, it is also an output rating. Motors require more electrical power fed into them than they can output as they aren't perfectly efficient. At 80% efficiency, to produce 750 watts of output power, a motor would require 937W. (More at lower speeds where the efficiency goes down.) So, the 750 watts may be "nominal" in one sense, but I am not sure it is defined the same way as the continuous power output definition that Europe uses for their 250 watt motors.