KMCx10e - an odd forming process (solved -> not chain related)

JayVee

Well-Known Member
I've had the same issues with the KMCx10e a couple of times, not only on my bike but on others. I get the chain and put it on with the same number of links as previously. It's the exact same model chain as the old version and I use the new missing link provided with it. When I pair the chain with a Shimano cassette (HG50) it makes a skipping noise, but only when going uphill. It jumps very noticeably making waves in the chain. Looking at the problem whilst someone else is riding it's clear that it's not the indexing. The chain links are too close to each other for the spacing of the cassette's teeth when fully engaged, such as when you're climbing a hill and the chain is under load. As long as you spin fast and light (such as on flats) everything is OK because the chain "rides" higher on the cassette and the links stay there for a shorter period. After a couple of hundred kilometres, if you do absolutely nothing the issue gradually disappears as the chain stretches to the correct length.

Has anyone tried a KMCx10e with another brand cassette? Or tried an HG50 (or HG500) Shimano cassette with another brand chain? I'm curious because I'm not really sure I want to go through this forming process each time I change the chain. Even if I did get 9000 kilometres out of the last KMCx10e.
 

Ravi Kempaiah

Well-Known Member
KMCx10e a couple of times, not only on my bike but on others. I get the chain and put it on with the same number of links as previously. It's the exact same model chain as the old version and I use the new missing link provided with it. When I pair the chain with a Shimano cassette (HG50)
I did have brand new KMC X10e + Shimano Deore 10S cassette.
Since both were new, within 20 miles, everything bedded in correctly and it was a silent, crisp shifting.

replacing only one of them while the other is worn is not the best case.
 

JayVee

Well-Known Member
I did have brand new KMC X10e + Shimano Deore 10S cassette.
Since both were new, within 20 miles, everything bedded in correctly and it was a silent, crisp shifting.

replacing only one of them while the other is worn is not the best case.
I changed both the cassette and chain at the same time. Maybe I’ll try the Deore instead of the HG5xx series.
 

linklemming

Active Member
I changed both the cassette and chain at the same time. Maybe I’ll try the Deore instead of the HG5xx series.
Are you sure its skipping at the cassette and not the front chainring.

The skipping your describing is what has always happened to me if I wait too long in replacing a chain (happens with different chain speeds/brands/models). Sometimes it skips at the cassette and sometimes at the front chainrings (and sometimes both).

I usually start thinking about replacing chains at 1k miles, I consider myself lucky if I can get to 2k miles. I measure chain stretch about every 4 rides.

If you can, post a pic of your front chainring where the skipping occurs.

I use the Shimanp TL-CN42 chain checker (most accurate way to measure chain stretch other than measuring with a ruler). Alot cheaper than cassettes and chainrings.
 
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JayVee

Well-Known Member
Are you sure its skipping at the cassette and not the front chainring.

The skipping your describing is what has always happened to me if I wait too long in replacing a chain (happens with different chain speeds/brands/models). Sometimes it skips at the cassette and sometimes at the front chainrings (and sometimes both).

I usually start thinking about replacing chains at 1k miles, I consider myself lucky if I can get to 2k miles. I measure chain stretch about every 4 rides.

If you can, post a pic of your front chainring where the skipping occurs.

I use the Shimanp TL-CN42 chain checker (most accurate way to measure chain stretch other than measuring with a ruler). Alot cheaper than cassettes and chainrings.
Thanks for the suggestion. However, It’s a chain that’s too small to fit. Nothing to do with the front. It’s all happening because the chain doesn’t lock on to the cassette at slow speed under load. Happened to me twice before. On this bike and another. Always with the KMC10e and Shimano HG cassettes. I checked that the quick link is on properly and have lubed every single linked on the chain. Today it’s better than yesterday. The chain has stretched a little with the warmer weather and additional kilometers covered. I’ve almost finished forming it.

The first time I thought I had a bad chain, but now it’s been 3 ‘bad chains’ in a row. All bought from different places. Same thing every time: after about 300-400 kms, it works perfectly. My chain measuring tool currently shows the chain as slightly ‘shrunken’ rather than stretched. I compared with a couple of other chains at the LBS, and the KMC I put on is definitely ‘tight’. The odd thing is that it’s tighter than the same model chain on new bikes. The mechanic at the LBS suggested that maybe the chain was on backwards, which was a possibility because KMC doesn’t indicate which is the proper side. So I flipped it, but no difference from what I can see.

Anyway, next time I’ll try a different chain or cassette. I think it’s just a bad combination. Maybe I’ll go all Shimano.
 

linklemming

Active Member
That's exactly what I did on my BULLS.
Shimano SLX cassette and E-bike specific chain> https://www.bike-components.de/en/Shimano/CN-E6090-10-STEPS-10-speed-Chain-for-E-Bikes-p43171/
I have had very good experience with Shimano products so far.
Bulls seems to use KMC pretty exclusively. I didnt check all models but everything in the Bulls "eMTB' and 'eMTB Fully' used KMC chains (KMCx10e or KMCx11e). They also use Shimano HG50 or HG500 cassettes amongst others.

I replaced the KMCx11e chain(with a KMCx11e) on my Bulls Evo 3 27.5+(Shimano Deore SLX CS-7000-11, 11-42T cassette) at 2500miles because Shimano TL-CN42 tool said it was time. I usually just measure with a ruler(although I have a few park tools which I consider useless) but the shimano tool is so quick and effortless to use. No chain skipping whatsover. I was actually surprised as even when measuring with a ruler I sometimes would get skipping at which point I would replace the chainrings and cassette and no more skipping. That being said after a chain replacement or two you might need to change cassette and/or chainrings anyways.

I was going to put an HG50 11-36 cassette on my iZip Moda anyways with a new KMCX10e chain. Ill report back on the results but I dont perceive there being any issues.

Perhaps you know all this but Ill post anyways for others following this thread. I post this because when I was replacing the new chainring(from 48t to 42) on my iZip Moda, I was curious as to the cassette engagement and it seemed all wrong applying 'common sense', these links/videos showed it was fine.

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/chain-wear.html



IMHO, chains are cheap(and super easy to replace), chainrings and cassettes not so much. 9000km on a chain is pretty excessive and will likely cause issues when replaced (just like you describe). If you can find a replacement chain that works if you do this, congrats. I will stick with proper chain replacement.
 
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JayVee

Well-Known Member
Thank you both for your suggestions. After closer inspection of all 3 bikes, it has nothing to do with the chain or the cassette.
The derailleur fastening screws have loosened on the 3 bikes. They are Haibike Trekking models. Mine is a MY2017 and the other two are MY2018. The problem was subtle on the MY2018 models, but on mine the screws had unseated quite a bit.
 

Manu

Active Member
Por lo general, cambiar la cadena y el cassette, nunca colocar menos distancia de cadena nueva que la anterior que es antigua, es mejor tener un enlace más cadena que no menos, el KMC X10e es omnidireccional.
Check the tensioner or spring of the rear derailleur because sometimes they no longer tighten chains or have problems in the stars of these.