Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by carl, Feb 18, 2017.
Biktrix Stunner is a mid-drive, throttle, IGH. Except that there is no suspension.
It can and has been done. Here is mine, not full suspension but it has a 1000watt Bafang mid-drive, a throttle and a Nu Vinci N360. It's super quiet, shifts smooth and does 34mph. I commute about 50 miles per day 2-3 days a week on this bike. I love it! I have been through Bosch training and have ridden many Bosch and Brose powered bikes, I like my DIY bike better by far! I would sell a Bosch powered bike if someone gave it to me! No throttle, No good! Not only is it a great commuter, but kickszumbut on the trails!
At Luna, you have a bunch of choices on how you want to equip your ebike.
I don't know what's being discussed here, anymore.
The OP asked if there are any commercial models of midrive with throttle (or if not - then why). Obviously, there are. At least, in the US market.
Then there was a suggestion made - and I totally in support of it - that it should have IGH, preferably Nu Vinci, and full suspension. Hey, let's throw hydraulic brakes in, for a total under $2,200 please... To think of it, BBS02 costs mere $450 at Luna Cycles, a complete kit with throttle, controller and display.
I'm new to the forum, so please forgive my ignorance.
I'm writing this reply for my Father (who's 87 years young). He's had 2 wheel electric bike for 8 years now.
it was built in Taiwan (Sorry, I don't know the model or Manufacturer). he rides it frequently to the store and to Church. Because of his age, we (his kids) were concerned that riding a
2 wheel bike (at his age) was a bit too risky and wanted him to get an ELECTRIC TRIKE. After scouring the internet for solutions, we found a local dealer who offered the IZIP E3GO.
Looking at the specification, it seems to be a great fit. My Dad placed the order (with the dealer saying "if you don't want the Trike, when delivered, it's a 25% restocking fee.)
the Trike cost $2500.
When the trike was delivered to the dealer and setup, my Dad went there to pick it up. After adding some options (basket etc) he gave them a Check (yes, he still does business with Checks)
He noticed that the Trike did not come equipped with a throttle (Twist Grip, like his current 2 wheel electric bike). so he asked for this to be added.
the Dealer said "we'll have to order that it will take another 4 weeks. So we waited.... The "throttle" arrived, and was installed. then they delivered the Trike to my Dad's home.
He looked at the trike and said "where's the twist grip throttle?" they showed him the PUSH BUTTONS you use for boost (on the left side of the handle bar, no less).
He tried to use those, but it was like riding a roller coaster, speed up.... then coast down... then speed up... Not acceptable.
I contacted IZIP directly to see if they could provide a Twist grip throttle. their reply. "Sorry, no bueno"! What???
not having a twist grip throttle on an electric bike is like ordering a hot dog (from a cart vendor) and getting no Bun. :-(
Not making (or providing) a twist grip throttle control for electric bikes makes NO sense. especially for 'anyone' who is in need of a 'TRIKE".
think about it for a second. Elderly people just want to 'go'. they don't want to pedal. if they wanted to do that. they would get a regular bike, yes?
again, my Dad is 87. so before you begin flying is with rebuttals. please keep this in mind.
Suffice it to say, the IZIP E3GO is headed back to the dealer (and my dad is out $650). and we're Not happy customers, with the dealer OR IZIP.
(note: if they can put a foot throttle on an electric car (i.e. Tesla), I'm 'sure' they could offer a twist grip throttle for an electric bike/trike. yes?)
or maybe the Tesla owners, 'peddle' their cars (like the Flintstones) to get it moving?? I'm just saying....
If your close to Canyon Lake,Tx. I will be glad to put a throttle on your dad's trike for less than the restocking fee.
I see a throttle as a safety feature for stop and go city traffic. So few bikes seem to offer throttles, especially the major bike companies. I'm hoping Bulls or Riese and Muller and others see the market for comfortable throttle, mid-drive, IGH ebikes for us baby boomers that still want to ride bikes after years of riding non-powered bikes. Should be a big market. The new Bulls
Evo 8 with a throttle would be nice as well as the Riese and Muller Delite Nuvinci.
First let me say thanks for all the great replies to my question on mid drive throttles. I look at a throttle as insurance for an older rider with bad hip joints. It just might come in handy someday. Now I have even more choices to ponder.
Bummer. Poor dealer/salesperson quality.
Why, of course twist throttles exist - at least as numerous as push-button, if not more. If you already got rid of your Izip, you can buy Sun Trike for much less: https://electricbikereview.com/sun-bicycles/24-traditional-electric-tricycle/. The red button is - I believe - reverse speed for throttle. Though I don't like the mere presence of the reverse - can be confusing for some people. Your dad wants it to be something like a scooter or Tesla car for a fraction of the cost, but ebike throttle is not designed to be used at all times. Wrist can get tired of twisting. Or a thumb, if this is a trigger/button. And, most of them are "zippy", with boost increasing from zero to full with a slight twist, like half-inch movement of the wrist.
Most shops would be able to replace the push-button with a twist-grip and move it from left to right handlebar for a modest fee.
At the moment I don't think it will be that likely to see a throttle on these bikes. Bosch has said several times publicly that they won't put a throttle on their system and I imagine Brose will continue to follow suit. I know many that felt like they must have a throttle until they spent some time with a proper pedal assist bike. On paper it seems like the best option, but in application it's not all that it's cracked up to be.
Chris, I'm sure you have suggestions for a proper pedal assist IGH bike to replace my Emotion City Wave with throttle. I gotten so used to it in traffic. The Wallerang looks intriguing with Shimano Steps IGH that automatically downshifts when you come to a stop. But I don't know how good that system is compared to Bosche or other motors. Perhaps there are other IGHs coming out soon? (I have a bad back, so I like a more upright riding position)
The Steps system with the integrating shifting is really nice. I'm a bigger fan of Bosch over Shimano, but Shimano does have some nice stuff in the works. I've been really keen on the Riese & Muller bikes with the Nuvinci lately. I was hesitant at first, but it's really growing on me. Check out the Delite, it has full suspension and it's perfect for people like us with bad backs.
I think throttles on mid-drives are unnecessary. My Yamaha-powered Haibike uses torque sensing, and it pulls from a stop immediately. There's simply no need to override the system to get going.
in countries where liability is a real thing throttles are another layer of dangerous. Fact that you can be OFF the bike, hit the throttle and the bike takes off makes it less than ideal in walker/bike situations.
Also mid drives leverage the gears so you have to know how to use the gears somewhat. Once you know how to use the gearing properly theres very little reason to need a throttle.
I have a throttle on my trike and seldom use it.
Have never ever missed one on my Haibike.
There are 2 situations where I consistently and instinctively use the throttle over-ride even without thinking about it. One is when crossing an intersection (while in my usual low PAS level) especially when cars are passing by. I can safely and confidently negotiate the crossing with max power on tap when needed. Second is when doing a u-turn where you only need small but precisely modulated power.
i agree with mark
just rode several mid drives at crazy lennys and i get the appeal, they are awesome climbing hills and smooth
but crossing intersections from a dead stop still not as fast a using my throttle
still think the best of both worlds is having both on the bike
Now it is already cancel the throttle
Yes Mark, and here there are many tight switch-backs on upslopes on the Greenways where it is difficult to make the acute angle turns and pedal at the same time. The throttle makes it easy, consistent and much safer, especially with approaching traffic (walkers or riders).
Still looking for a stealthy purpose built mid-drive with IGH and throttle that doesn't look like and Ebike. Bulls comes closest with the Evo with Gates belt but no throttle.
Lots of us in our 60s need that boost to start a heavy bike while at a stop light in heavy traffic and the IGH to shift down if in the wrong gear. There's a big market here for geezers that love biking and want something with more personality than a cruiser style ebike. Looks like FLX bikes are getting close with the Bafang Max but no IGH yet.
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