My Review of the Riese & Müller Delite GX Rohloff

Dmitri

Active Member
#5
Thanks everyone! Some ideas for upgrades, when I get to them:
  • Rear shock (163x38). Most likely a RockShox Monarch given how absurdly expensive the Fox Factory Float is.
  • Wider winter tires: 45NRTH Wrathchild 27.5/3.0". Already have them but a bit worried about rear clearance.
  • Wider spring/autumn tires (summer doesn't exist afaik): Bontrager Hodag 3.8" front, WTB Ranger 3" rear... either this or I stick to the Rock Razors (2.35", ugh).
  • New fenders, 85mm wide. Some options here:
    • 1. Cut the existing fenders down the middle, pad them up with some sheet metal, repaint.
    • 2. Make DIY fenders from plastic pipes. Been wanting to try that for a long time, results will most likely be ugly.
  • Ergon GP1 bioleather grips... existing grips are fine but leather fits this bike better (oh the luxury).
  • Brakes: want something with more power. A lot more power. Quad piston like. Quad piston dual caliper maybe?
 

Ravi Kempaiah

Well-Known Member
#6
Thanks everyone! Some ideas for upgrades, when I get to them:
  • Rear shock (163x38). Most likely a RockShox Monarch given how absurdly expensive the Fox Factory Float is.
  • Wider winter tires: 45NRTH Wrathchild 27.5/3.0". Already have them but a bit worried about rear clearance.
  • Wider spring/autumn tires (summer doesn't exist afaik): Bontrager Hodag 3.8" front, WTB Ranger 3" rear... either this or I stick to the Rock Razors (2.35", ugh).
  • New fenders, 85mm wide. Some options here:
    • 1. Cut the existing fenders down the middle, pad them up with some sheet metal, repaint.
    • 2. Make DIY fenders from plastic pipes. Been wanting to try that for a long time, results will most likely be ugly.
  • Ergon GP1 bioleather grips... existing grips are fine but leather fits this bike better (oh the luxury).
  • Brakes: want something with more power. A lot more power. Quad piston like. Quad piston dual caliper maybe?
You should get this fender. Look at the pics: https://www.pedelecforum.de/forum/i...-gegen-r80-pletscher-aus-alu-getauscht.52486/
 

Ravi Kempaiah

Well-Known Member
#7
Rear shock (163x38). Most likely a RockShox Monarch given how absurdly expensive the Fox Factory Float is.
Also, you can reroute the chain over the Rohloff by adding a tightening pulley just like they did it in the above link. It will eliminate some noise because of the equalizing mechanism you have near the bottom bracket.
 

Dmitri

Active Member
#8
It's EUR 160! And I cannot quite tell if it's for a single fender or a set. Also, it's 80mm, which is OK for the rear of the bike (3" tire) but too narrow for the front.

I still don't get how this can cost EUR 160 though. Compare with these mudguards, for example.

Also, you can reroute the chain over the Rohloff by adding a tightening pulley just like they did it in the above link. It will eliminate some noise because of the equalizing mechanism you have near the bottom bracket.
There's nothing in the above link about this, though I sort of see it in some of the pictures. I don't have any noise on my bike so don't know what this is about, but if there's a discussion topic on this in the pedelec forum, I would like to take a look.
 

Dmitri

Active Member
#10
Interesting! But it looks like a custom right dropout, very different to the dropouts on derailleur-equipped bikes such as Delite 25.

I personally have not experienced the issues with chain tension that the posters over there mention. I think that only HNF Heisenberg "Fully" has solved the issue of constant Rohloff tension on a rear suspension, but theirs is an enduro bike and nothing like the Delite.

My ideas regarding custom dropouts (which are trivial to manufacture) revolved around other issues, namely the desire to move the wheel back from that 'problem spot' in my video as well as the desire to install a secondary disc brake mount on the left dropout.
 

Over50

Well-Known Member
#13
In my review I mentioned the weirdness of the Delite 25, here's a "what I think about it" video...
I was more a fan of the first video and less so of this one although it is still well done. I think in all the literature and videos I've seen describing the bike they specified that it was based on the preferences of the two company founders implying it isn't meant to be a mass seller. So arbitrary and capricious component decisions maybe but also we could take them at their word that they really reflect the personal design preferences of the founders. Now, I would definitely buy the theory that it is their individual preferences from parts they are already sourcing and I wouldn't expect them necessarily to try to source new premium parts for a bike they are sure to sell in a very small quantity.

Your preference for knobbier and fatter tires, wider rims etc is equally arbitrary and I would suspect fits a bit outside the primary use-case the designers envisioned for the bike. I have 35mm rims and Super Moto X on my Haibike and 40mm rims and the same tires on my R&M. For city commuting or mostly smooth surface riding I'd much rather have that setup vs wider rims and fatter tires. For me that setup offers a good blend of of commuting/road efficiency, secure and robust handling and comfort.

I agree that it seems weird they didn't choose the Rohloff but also the electric version of the Rohloff may not be ready yet (?). And the founders personally prefer this setup to the Rohloff for their primary use-case?

Yes, I wasn't a fan of the pedals that came on my R&M but I've changed the pedals on every bike I've purchased except my folders. Surely it reflects that they realize that pedals and seats are highly individualized and expect that most purchasers will switch them out.

Didn't really get the point on the Fox website. A lot of times they don't show the versions they sell to the manufacturers. I was thinking you pointed that out in your first video but maybe I'm not recalling correctly. If the primary use-case for the bike per the vision of the designers is road and smooth surface riding (hence Super Moto X tires and 40mm rims) then the Fox 100mm fork is more than adequate.

Personally, I would never consider buying a 20 mph bike for that price. I'd rather have two or three good bikes for a similar amount of money. When I read of the introduction of the bike I immediately thought "they'll sell about 5 of those".

Videos are really well done. Very educational for me even if I didn't agree with several of the points in the second video. Thanks for posting them.
 

Dmitri

Active Member
#14
So arbitrary and capricious component decisions maybe but also we could take them at their word that they really reflect the personal design preferences of the founders. Now, I would definitely buy the theory that it is their individual preferences from parts they are already sourcing and I wouldn't expect them necessarily to try to source new premium parts for a bike they are sure to sell in a very small quantity.
I think those are the founders' economic preferences. For example, the Fox Factory fork has a longer steerer tube than the Aion, so instead of finding the right spacers and keeping the angled Ergotec stem, they just went for a different, cheaper/uglier stem. Problem solved.

Your preference for knobbier and fatter tires, wider rims etc is equally arbitrary and I would suspect fits a bit outside the primary use-case the designers envisioned for the bike. I have 35mm rims and Super Moto X on my Haibike and 40mm rims and the same tires on my R&M. For city commuting or mostly smooth surface riding I'd much rather have that setup vs wider rims and fatter tires. For me that setup offers a good blend of of commuting/road efficiency, secure and robust handling and comfort.
My argument here is that, if it's a road bike, you don't need XTR Di2 necessarily -- this is more appropriate for aggressive trail riding. For the road, a Rohloff or NuVinci is a better choice. But, again, a Rohloff costs twice as much as the XTR Di2 setup, and we got to keep those profit margins!

As far as tires go, all I'm saying is there's no advantage in going for slicker tires on an ebike: considerations like rolling resistance are important for mechanical bikes where you need to put in the effort to turn the wheels. Here you can have the best of both worlds: good road grip (suitable for gravel etc.) and high speeds. No need to compromise. But on this bike we have road tires with an MTB-specific system.

I agree that it seems weird they didn't choose the Rohloff but also the electric version of the Rohloff may not be ready yet (?). And the founders personally prefer this setup to the Rohloff for their primary use-case?
Yes, I suspect both Rohloff E-14 and Bosch's ABS are not yet ready. But if any company is going to use this tech, it's R&M! I'm hoping that someday they make a bike that has
  • Rohloff E-14
  • Bosch ABS
  • Bosch Powertubes (DualBattery, of course)
  • 3.0" tires and fork/dropouts/mudguards for them
Sadly I cannot make an ebike of this complexity myself (yet).

Yes, I wasn't a fan of the pedals that came on my R&M but I've changed the pedals on every bike I've purchased except my folders. Surely it reflects that they realize that pedals and seats are highly individualized and expect that most purchasers will switch them out.
It's the eternal battle between cost and profit. Let me give you an example... I make bikes too (small volume mechanical fatbikes) and we use $100 pedals on some of our models. Why? Because that's the most beautiful pedals we could find, and we want our bikes to look best. Now, obviously, this wouldn't work for mass production because bike manufacturers like their 60% profit margin while we content with far less.

Didn't really get the point on the Fox website. A lot of times they don't show the versions they sell to the manufacturers. I was thinking you pointed that out in your first video but maybe I'm not recalling correctly. If the primary use-case for the bike per the vision of the designers is road and smooth surface riding (hence Super Moto X tires and 40mm rims) then the Fox 100mm fork is more than adequate.
The point is this: R&M installed a $500-ish (probably even cheaper to source) 27.5" 100mm Pedelec-specific fork instead of installing a $1000-ish (retail) flagship 27.5+ fork on their flagship model. This one is a bit iffy though because I still can't make sense of whether the company founders wanted an MTB or road bike or both.

Personally, I would never consider buying a 20 mph bike for that price. I'd rather have two or three good bikes for a similar amount of money. When I read of the introduction of the bike I immediately thought "they'll sell about 5 of those".
This one is definitely overpriced. My recommendation for anyone interested in the Delite is to go for the Rohloff model and then upgrade it themselves.
 

Dmitri

Active Member
#15
Well, it finally happened... the front wheel chewed in the flimsily attached front mudguard, and the mudguard in turn broke the front brake hydraulic line. Front mudguard is annihilated (wonder how I'll be fitting those 720bike mudguards, eh?) and the front brake is off for repairs. Lesson learned: zip ties do not hold anything together well enough.

IMG_20180216_1432370.jpg
 

Alaskan

Well-Known Member
#16
Dmitri, I admire your indomitable spirit...you are a true bicycle warrior, not only for your choice of bike but how you use it and what you have done to customize it. Far be it for me to give you much advice. I do have a two word suggestion for you though...pop rivets.
 

Dmitri

Active Member
#17
Dmitri, I admire your indomitable spirit...you are a true bicycle warrior, not only for your choice of bike but how you use it and what you have done to customize it. Far be it for me to give you much advice. I do have a two word suggestion for you though...pop rivets.
Thanks for the suggestion! But the issue is typically not on the side of the mudguard - it's on the side of the fork. The attachments to the fork were flimsy to begin with, and one was them was replaced with a zip tie. This is how things went wrong. Now, on the new mudguards, I'll end up having to invent something new to hold them all in place.
 

Dmitri

Active Member
#18
The ordering of the mudguards from 720bike (what a weird name!) is not going well. Not well at all.

After ordering the mudguards and paying for them, I got the following email:

Thanks for your order,
enclosed you find our prepayment invoice.
Our delivery conditions are only of EU and you have also to pay the freight costs ( difference of € 34,95 ) and after payment we`ll send you the ware.


I responded asking to be billed via PayPal, but there has been no reply. Might have to rollback the transaction...
 

Dmitri

Active Member
#19
Removed the rear fender entirely, installed 45NRTH Wrathchild on the rear too. Dropout clearance is plenty, just need wider mudguards!
 

Dmitri

Active Member
#20
More of my ramblings. This covers some alternatives (e.g., fork choices) and the idea of reengineering dropouts for either a Rohloff tensioner (something I was blissfully unaware of until visiting this forum) or having twin-caliper rear brakes (there's consensus on StackExchange that this is unnecessary which to me is an indicator I'm on the right track).

 
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