New Yamaha Gravel Bike

#21
this is a pretty awesome bike! my one wish is with these bikes coming out, they make them class 3. i find 20mph to be pretty limiting (i'm in CA). i'm guessing yamaha and the like don't want to limit the market size. maybe have an option at the dealer to toggle between the classes without voiding the warranty?

as far as drop-bar versus non drop-bar, i find most on this site prefer non drop-bar. and that's just a matter of preference. i believe the preference for drop-bar is greater the faster you want to go, mostly because it's more aero.

i think both groups should be happy. the more bikes that are being developed, the more choice and competition there is and everyone wins.
 

Timpo

Well-Known Member
#22
It seems to be nothing much more than a rehash of their Cross Core and Cross Connect models, with a new color scheme, hydraulic brakes, trail tires and drop handlebars. Yamaha seems to have gone with an ultra-conservative bicycle lineup all around while the greater majority of us were thinking something a bit more daring along the lines of what Haibike has done in their lineup. But hey, if it attracts a niche segment rider who likes his or her gravel bikes, all is good. The reviews Court along with Sam have been doing of the Yamaha lineup show great value for the dollar in these bikes and I look forward to their review of this new model. As a Haibike Yamaha drive ebike owner, I share Sam's enthusiasm for the Yamaha ebike drive...

But now, onto the disclaimer: Hey Yamaha! When can we expect to see your fatbike version of the Haibike Full FatSix? I mean, your overlords in Japan there at Yamaha world headquarters defined the fat tired dual sport motorcycle in the Yamaha TW200....about time you give us the Ebike version!
What's with the 200cc fat tire dual sport trend?

Suzuki has one as well..
http://www.suzukicycles.com/Product Lines/Cycles/Products/RV200/2019/RV200.aspx

Unlike ebike version of fat bikes, the dual sport fat bikes only put fat tire in the rear.
I wonder why that is..
 
#23
this is a pretty awesome bike! my one wish is with these bikes coming out, they make them class 3. i find 20mph to be pretty limiting (i'm in CA). i'm guessing yamaha and the like don't want to limit the market size. maybe have an option at the dealer to toggle between the classes without voiding the warranty?

as far as drop-bar versus non drop-bar, i find most on this site prefer non drop-bar. and that's just a matter of preference. i believe the preference for drop-bar is greater the faster you want to go, mostly because it's more aero.

i think both groups should be happy. the more bikes that are being developed, the more choice and competition there is and everyone wins.
I’m in total agreement.
- Get what like
- Ride many many miles
- Enjoy the heck out it
- Ignore everybody else.
 

JRA

Well-Known Member
#24
There is a certain amount of hypocrisy in this thread that fails to address the fact that we are here due to our common interest in eBikes and what you choose to like about them is personal.
 

Timpo

Well-Known Member
#26
There is a certain amount of hypocrisy in this thread that fails to address the fact that we are here due to our common interest in eBikes and what you choose to like about them is personal.
I don't see a problem with people liking different things?

Just like motorcycles.. people have common interest of motorcycles, but what kind of bike they like is different.

Some people may like Italian bikes like MV Agusta and Ducati, some may like dual sports, some may like Kawasaki Ninja or cruiser bikes like Harley Davidson, and some may like Vespa.
 
#27
There is a certain amount of hypocrisy in this thread that fails to address the fact that we are here due to our common interest in eBikes and what you choose to like about them is personal.
What hypocrisy ? I'm not seeing any, just Spirited people with Lots of likes. ??
 
#29
What's with the 200cc fat tire dual sport trend?

Suzuki has one as well..
http://www.suzukicycles.com/Product Lines/Cycles/Products/RV200/2019/RV200.aspx

Unlike ebike version of fat bikes, the dual sport fat bikes only put fat tire in the rear.
I wonder why that is..
The TW200 has been around since 1987, so that qualifies more as a trend! They used to make a true fat tired bike called the BW200; but I believe that was not a street legal dual sport. Think of something more like the fat tired off road Rokon. The TW200 enjoys a healthy following of fans and riders wishing to go off road or onroad while not blowing the budget for something like a KTM. A more laid back, low powered bike that is also a great bike for beginning riders. I hope to maybe have one, someday.

Cannot access your Suzuki link, but if you are referring to their Van Van, that is more an on-road bike than off road, enduro capable as the TW200 is.

Fwiw, I joined the TW200 forum and posted pics of the Haibike Full FatSix. The folks there gave a great reception to it; especially with the Yamaha genes built-in.
 

Timpo

Well-Known Member
#30
The TW200 has been around since 1987, so that qualifies more as a trend! They used to make a true fat tired bike called the BW200; but I believe that was not a street legal dual sport. Think of something more like the fat tired off road Rokon. The TW200 enjoys a healthy following of fans and riders wishing to go off road or onroad while not blowing the budget for something like a KTM. A more laid back, low powered bike that is also a great bike for beginning riders. I hope to maybe have one, someday.

Cannot access your Suzuki link, but if you are referring to their Van Van, that is more an on-road bike than off road, enduro capable as the TW200 is.

Fwiw, I joined the TW200 forum and posted pics of the Haibike Full FatSix. The folks there gave a great reception to it; especially with the Yamaha genes built-in.
yeah the link was for VanVan, but I don't know why it's not working for you.

And I agree, having Yamaha motor definitely helps when it comes to ebike.
Especially Haibike, I found their bikes are generally a lot sportier than other ebikes, which breaks the notion of ebikes are only for old people.
 
#33
For anyone wondering "why" did Yamaha introduce a gravel ebike...
#1 Category for IBD sales growth is ebikes.
#2 Category for IBD sales growth is gravel bikes.

Hence, Yamaha goes for both highest growth categories, with a gravel ebike.

Every other IBD sales category in the 'top 5' is either no growth, or declining, but not declining as fast as the rest.

Just like every other business you either GROW or die. There is no staying 'flat', or slow decline.

(i.e. GE stopped 'growing' around the year 2000. Now its basically a dead-man walking company, barely afloat and saddled with mountains of unrepayable debt. They can't sell off assets fast enough.)
 

CodyDog

Well-Known Member
#34
I like the new Yamaha gravel Bike. I have a Trek SL5 Checkpoint gravel bike that is a blast on gravel and dirt roads. What I like about some of the drop bar ebikes is their attempt to get the weight down. My Rad Rover weighs in at about 60 plus pounds. Riding a lighter ebike would be very desirable.
 

CodyDog

Well-Known Member
#35
So with motorized assist I guess I struggle to understand why anyone would want to ride a bike in an aggressive position like a gravel bike or road bike requires. There is information on how these riding positions (while required if you want to be a competitive racer as you must be as aero as possible) are not even good for balanced body exercise. Ever noticed how mtn bikers have more balance physiques than road bike racers....there upper bodies are more involved in riding and that's a good thing for 99% of us on ebikes as we still want to get some exercise.

Maybe if you just love to slip into spandex and pretend to be racing in the Tour de France it may make sense but I would not buy an ebike that is anything but more upright and comfortable. To each his own as I'm sure I'll be hammered by the spandexters for not openly embracing a road / gravel bike configuration.
Gravel riding and gravel bikes is a growing segment in the bike industry. The gravel bike geometry is very similar to a road bike as you can see. The geometry is built for speed and efficiency. With that being said, a large market for gravel bikes is the the Roadies. The benefit is not only are there a ton of gravel roads in the United States but the gravel roads are safer due to lack of traffic.

As much as I will defend upright positioned ebikes, I will defend road bikes as well. It's not about pretending to be a racer in the Tour de France, it's about a style of riding. People who buy road and gravel bikes purchased them for a specific reason. I think it's smart for larger manufactures to offer an ebike in that geometry. Now I'm not fond of wearing Spandex but it also serves a purpose.
 

Asher

Well-Known Member
#37
You can have an aggressive setup with flat bars. I do. Get 45' backswept bars, remove some spacers, and use a longer stem. Combine with ergo grips, and now you've got a way more ergonomic setup than drop bars, and you can put some weight on your hands because your palms are fully supported, and your hands are close in, like you're doing a pushup. If you can support most of your weight during a pushup for a few minutes, then you can support a fraction of your weight on and off during a ride. It's a bit like aerobars, but more flexible, and you can crouch as low or high as you like.

And with the flat bars, your cockpit controls are always in reach. With drop bars, multiple positions or access to controls: pick one.

People bash flat bars because they've never remotely tried to run them this way. Long flat bars are dumb for road applications. The backsweep, or at least narrowed bars, is critical.
 
#38
You can have an aggressive setup with flat bars. I do. Get 45' backswept bars, remove some spacers, and use a longer stem. Combine with ergo grips, and now you've got a way more ergonomic setup than drop bars, and you can put some weight on your hands because your palms are fully supported, and your hands are close in, like you're doing a pushup. If you can support most of your weight during a pushup for a few minutes, then you can support a fraction of your weight on and off during a ride. It's a bit like aerobars, but more flexible, and you can crouch as low or high as you like.

And with the flat bars, your cockpit controls are always in reach. With drop bars, multiple positions or access to controls: pick one.

People bash flat bars because they've never remotely tried to run them this way. Long flat bars are dumb for road applications. The backsweep, or at least narrowed bars, is critical.
Your post is baffling, all the more so because you actually seem to believe that what works for YOU is what works best for everyone, universally, across the board, without exception.

I ride bikes with riser bars, flat bars and drop bars. All are comfortable. Brakes and shifters are easily accessible from both drops and hoods. From the tops/flats, no but it's an easy transition to the hoods or drops. I spend the most time on the hoods but drop bars give you at least 4 distinct hand positions which is superior for comfort over long rides.

In theory, multiple hand positions are a superior setup: you can ride for speed (drops), flat terrain cruising (hoods) or climbing (tops/flats). Flat bars regardless of sweep only offer a single hand position. This is bad ergonomically for longer rides. OK, I don't really believe this as I've ridden on multi-hour rides on flat bars and didn't have a problem with comfort. It's just to say I can make up any wack a doodle argument and promote it as truth on the internet.

In reality, I really like wider, conventional drop bars, with a relatively thin tape. Compact drops don't allow you to get aero enough. Even though I have average sized hands, I don't find the drops large enough with compacts either. And thick cushy tape just feel vague and imprecise.

tl, dr: don't oversell or overhype a personal setup as a universal, iron-clad law.

You're the first person I've encountered who has claimed that swept back bars are useful for an "aggressive" ie aero, quick handling ride. Swept back bars were designed for an upright ride. Nothing wrong with that, but the more upright you are, the less aero you are. It's not the "correct" ride position: it's simply one option among many. There's nothing "right" or "wrong" about it as you imply.

Second, you can use ergo grips with flat bars with little to no sweep. You don't seem to take this possibility into account.

Third, some riders find ergo grips on flat bars as well as drop bars comfortable. It's not either/or.

Maybe ask others first what setups they find comfortable instead of assuming you know it all.
 
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#40
I should have added, I meant for urban applications. If you're riding in a city, especially on an ebike, you want the brakes within immediate reach. So that cuts you down to one position, probably the hoods. Which doesn't offer as much of a platform for your hands as ergo grips.

Even scarier: I'm not alone :p

https://www.outsideonline.com/2392431/myth-forever-bike
The brakes are within "immediate reach" from the drops and the hoods. That's two positions, which is one more than you have available with flat bars.

The hoods don't offer "as much of a platform" as ergo grips?!? That doesn't mean anything. You wrap your hands AROUND the hoods. Your hands wrap securely around the handle bars. With ergo grips, there is a platform for the palms. What is your point?

No one knows what you're talking about, seriously.