Question for Commuters: Buy an extra charger?

#1
I have an Amego Infinite with a 624wh battery. My commute is 20 miles one way, and I am able to ride in PAS 6 most of the way (25 mph), which means a greater draw on the battery. My question is this: Should I buy an extra battery charger for $80USD so I can keep one at work and one at home, or just keep the charger at home and risk it?

I can make the round trip on one charge, but it's cutting it fairly close.
 

christob

Well-Known Member
#3
I'd guess the time-value of $80 is negligible in a work year of commutes -- ie, for you to "reliably" do the round trip (ie, without risk of going dead on the ride home) without a recharge at work, you'd have to lower the assist, pedal more, and extend the commute time -- whatever that added commute time would be, how long would it take costing that added time (at your salary level, for instance) to have "spent" the $80? I'm guessing not long.
For $80, which seems a great price for a 2nd charger, I'd take it for the peace of mind, if you've ever been really close to running the battery to dead in 1 commute round trip...
 
#4
If you can make it with one battery cycle then I would opt for that rather than 2 charge cycles a commute day. Batteries are hefty investments so anything you can do to prolong its life is a good thing. If your commute both ways brings you too close for comfort then make some minor adjustments to your power draw with PAS adjustments.

Or not. :) All boils down to personal preference.
 

Timpo

Well-Known Member
#5
The ebike charger shouldn't cost $80.
$80 or even $100 is a standard price when you buy one from the US / Canadian retailer.

I always buy one from AliExpress.
The battery on Amego has standard 48V (aka 56.4V?) 2.5mm x 5.5mm (I think? or was it 2.1mm x 5.5mm) DC connector with 2A charging rate.
You can get higher than 2A, for example 4A or even 6 or 8A to shorten the charging time. However some batteries are not compatible with fast charging, so I'd be very careful going over 3 or 4A.

Just make sure to get a right DC plug and outlet plug for the US market, because one in EU for example, is quite a bit different.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/54-...9.0&pvid=fb65ce91-4d44-44cf-9250-57a79ac9d2f2
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/HK-...0.0&pvid=13372b02-3771-4c8d-b215-a55e2bfa514c
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Okf...e3-4ebc-9a82-4ed5710b61ed&transAbTest=ae803_5
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/54-...0.0&pvid=fa7f273c-b626-4c07-af37-35e38891d8e2
 

harryS

Well-Known Member
#6
If you can make it with one battery cycle then I would opt for that rather than 2 charge cycles a commute day. Batteries are hefty investments so anything you can do to prolong its life is a good thing.
Could be wrong, but I've heard two partial cycles are said to be better for battery life than one deep cycle.
 

Timpo

Well-Known Member
#7
Could be wrong, but I've heard two partial cycles are said to be better for battery life than one deep cycle.
yeah for Lithium Ion, is it easier on the battery. You should never charge up to 100%, nor should you be draining down to 0%.

People on this forum say it is best to keep the battery somewhere around 20% to 80% all the time.

But I always just charge up to 100%, I know it's hard on the battery and not good for it, but I want the fully charged power & want to get a little extra range.
 

indianajo

Well-Known Member
#8
Remember cold weather range (40 deg F) is a lot lower than warm weather range. My 840 WH battery got down to 44 v (red LED) after 35 miles at 40 deg F. Deep cycling is bad.
When buying a charger on the internet market look at the picture for the charge voltage on the label. Many of the cheaper chargers are the wrong voltage. My $20 one came in with the right voltage but a different connector than shown. I had a mating connector and built an extension cable to the XT60 connector my battery has, to charge the battery outside.
 
#10
Yeah sounds like you might as well - the battery will probably decrease performance over time anyway so you’ll at least be ready for that...
 
#11
"Deep cycling" as you present it is circumvented by use of LVC circuits found even in the most basic of BMS. Charge your battery twice a day and you will use up the rated cycle capacity of the battery that much quicker. When charging and moving those lithium ions back to their home in the anode some oxidation occurs which results in plating. That seems to be one of the serious life limiting factors with the battery chemistry.

Never charging your battery to 100% is not good advice and will never allow your BMS to balance cell voltages in your pack.
 

Timpo

Well-Known Member
#12
"Deep cycling" as you present it is circumvented by use of LVC circuits found even in the most basic of BMS. Charge your battery twice a day and you will use up the rated cycle capacity of the battery that much quicker. When charging and moving those lithium ions back to their home in the anode some oxidation occurs which results in plating. That seems to be one of the serious life limiting factors with the battery chemistry.

Never charging your battery to 100% is not good advice and will never allow your BMS to balance cell voltages in your pack.
I don't know about that.

I have no idea about how the battery chemistry works.. But people on Juiced forum are spending well over $300 on satiator programmable charger so that the battery will not get charged past 80%.

Tora (Juiced founder) has an engineering degree or something so presumably he knows what he's talking about too.

Because otherwise people are wasting their money.
 
#13
Grin makes fine products and they are certainly not a waste of money in my book. I have the charger you speak of and use it almost daily. Do I charge my cells to 4.2v every time? No, as I generally shoot for 4.1v to increase longevity and the Satiator makes that much easier to do. But I do charge my packs to 4.2v at least a couple times a month, if not more, to allow the BMS to do its balancing function with the cells.
 

ebikemom

Administrator
Staff member
#14
I’ve got plenty of battery capacity for my round trip and then some, but keep a charger at work. Then if I forget to charge my battery at home I can still commute in to work.
 

Timpo

Well-Known Member
#15
Grin makes fine products and they are certainly not a waste of money in my book. I have the charger you speak of and use it almost daily. Do I charge my cells to 4.2v every time? No, as I generally shoot for 4.1v to increase longevity and the Satiator makes that much easier to do. But I do charge my packs to 4.2v at least a couple times a month, if not more, to allow the BMS to do its balancing function with the cells.
hmm ok well I feel like you know what you're talking about, at this point it's getting a bit too technical for me to understand lol. I don't know how BMS balancing works.
 

pnop

Active Member
#16
hmm ok well I feel like you know what you're talking about, at this point it's getting a bit too technical for me to understand lol. I don't know how BMS balancing works.
I feel the same way. I would rather ride than constantly worry about charge level. If I have to get a new battery 6 months before someone else, so be it. So with that said, I'd likely get the extra charger so I could ride to and from work how I wanted to without worrying about running low on battery.
 

jazz

Well-Known Member
#17
I feel the same way. I would rather ride than constantly worry about charge level. If I have to get a new battery 6 months before someone else, so be it. So with that said, I'd likely get the extra charger so I could ride to and from work how I wanted to without worrying about running low on battery.
Exactly! For a majority of people, they don't over think this. They just charge their battery when it needs to be charged and then use it. Yes, there are a lot of things you could do to prolong your battery life but for most, the hassle is not really worth the effort. The only rule I follow is I keep the state of charge at around 60% when storing for a month or longer, otherwise I charge it up to 100% and use it. I just rebuilt a battery that was from 2013 and always charged to 100%. I have other ebike batteries around the 4-5 year mark which are still at 85% or higher of original capacity. If that is the kind of life I can get and not have to think too much about how I need to always charge it, then that works for me.
 

pnop

Active Member
#18
Exactly! For a majority of people, they don't over think this. They just charge their battery when it needs to be charged and then use it. Yes, there are a lot of things you could do to prolong your battery life but for most, the hassle is not really worth the effort. The only rule I follow is I keep the state of charge at around 60% when storing for a month or longer, otherwise I charge it up to 100% and use it. I just rebuilt a battery that was from 2013 and always charged to 100%. I have other ebike batteries around the 4-5 year mark which are still at 85% or higher of original capacity. If that is the kind of life I can get and not have to think too much about how I need to always charge it, then that works for me.
There are people who really enjoy the technical aspects of charging and I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with that either. However you get the most enjoyment is a good thing.
 

erider_61

Active Member
#19
"Deep cycling" as you present it is circumvented by use of LVC circuits found even in the most basic of BMS. Charge your battery twice a day and you will use up the rated cycle capacity of the battery that much quicker. .
Absolutely not true....a full cycle is a complete recharge from 0 to 100%. If you were to charge your battery from 50 to 100% twice, this would still be only 1 FULL CYCLE.

Or 75 to 100% four times would be 1 FULL CYCLE.
 
#20
The ebike charger shouldn't cost $80.
$80 or even $100 is a standard price when you buy one from the US / Canadian retailer.

I always buy one from AliExpress.
The battery on Amego has standard 48V (aka 56.4V?) 2.5mm x 5.5mm (I think? or was it 2.1mm x 5.5mm) DC connector with 2A charging rate.
You can get higher than 2A, for example 4A or even 6 or 8A to shorten the charging time. However some batteries are not compatible with fast charging, so I'd be very careful going over 3 or 4A.

Just make sure to get a right DC plug and outlet plug for the US market, because one in EU for example, is quite a bit different.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/54-...9.0&pvid=fb65ce91-4d44-44cf-9250-57a79ac9d2f2
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/HK-...0.0&pvid=13372b02-3771-4c8d-b215-a55e2bfa514c
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Okf...e3-4ebc-9a82-4ed5710b61ed&transAbTest=ae803_5
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/54-...0.0&pvid=fa7f273c-b626-4c07-af37-35e38891d8e2
Timpo you saved me $60! I ordered a charger from Ali Express for $26 and it just arrived. Thanks for the tip!