reliability

Bedi bedang

New Member
Where is the bike that can travel 40kms a day,5 days a week all year round without falling apart on the southern west coast of British Columbia. What the name of the bike that has a warranty accepting this challenge. Until you have the warranty, you don't have a reliable mode of transportation,you have an unreliable expensive toy.
 

Feliz

Well-Known Member
Before we get into a bike I would ask if you have a good dealer near you and if so what brand bikes do they sell? A warranty is useless if you have to ship it to Toronto or Miami every time you have an issue. I've owned twelve eBikes and currently have eight, from my experience I would suggest getting a name brand bike having a good warranty from a reliable dealer. For example BH and Easy Motion bikes ( same company ) pretty much offer a five year warranty and sell very reliable bikes with dealers in Canada. By the way I'm from Vancouver now living in Vernon. You'll get lots of help on here, good luck.
 

Timpo

Well-Known Member
Well Google search revealed there are several ebike companies in BC.

Surface 604
Vancouver, BC

VoltBike
Coquitlam, BC

Hill Eater
Salt Spring Island, BC

Ride the Glide
Victoria, BC

Rad Power
US Company, Showroom located in Vancouver, BC

Spark Bikes
Vancouver, BC

Ebike BC
Vancouver, BC

Not an ebike company, but they have lots of tuning parts:
Grin Technologies
Vancouver, BC
 

Deacon Blues

Active Member
There's also Pedego. They have decent quality, but I find them overpriced (I ride a Ridgerider and my wife rides a Commuter).
A number of the riders in a seniors group I ride with have Specialized Vados and they all seem happy with them. Mind you, they aren't putting on anywhere near the mileage you plan on doing.
There's also Riese & Mueller. Serious German built quality, but very expensive.

As mentioned above, having a reliable shop that can handle any needed repairs is very important.
 

Timpo

Well-Known Member
There's also Pedego. They have decent quality, but I find them overpriced (I ride a Ridgerider and my wife rides a Commuter).
A number of the riders in a seniors group I ride with have Specialized Vados and they all seem happy with them. Mind you, they aren't putting on anywhere near the mileage you plan on doing.
There's also Riese & Mueller. Serious German built quality, but very expensive.

As mentioned above, having a reliable shop that can handle any needed repairs is very important.
I didn't put Pedego because they're an American (California) company, but there are several dealers in Canada.

I just thought I'd put BC ebike companies, but I posted Rad Power so what the heck lol 😅

I guess anything from Giant, Specialized, Trek, Cannondale, etc...they all have physical stores in Canada. (or BC in this case)
 

Alaskan

Well-Known Member
Where is the bike that can travel 40kms a day,5 days a week all year round without falling apart on the southern west coast of British Columbia. What the name of the bike that has a warranty accepting this challenge. Until you have the warranty, you don't have a reliable mode of transportation,you have an unreliable expensive toy.
Go see Kelly at Citrus Cycles in Ladysmith and test ride some Riese & Muller bikes - some of the most robustly built, durable bikes. Kelly's reviews on Youtube are outstanding.
 

Ebiker01

Active Member
If you planning to carry 70-80lb worth of groceries and doing 100mile rides in the weekend with 30mph speeds on flats and still have that ebike running impeccably after thousands of miles there’s only 1 company delivering reliability as of right now.

If a software glitch is a minor issue for you and you would happily waste a few hours to go to a dealer then reliability means something else for you.
Reliability means zero issues while of course taking good care/maintenance of the ebike.
 

Alaskan

Well-Known Member
I live on Vancouver Island and in October I dropped in to Citrus on my way back from Victoria. I love the R & M lineup, but they sure are pricey. I like the Moustache line of ebikes too.
The OP specified durability, reliability and serviceability, things normally achieved through superior design, engineering, materials, components, build quality and rigorous inspection. He said nothing about cost, which would logically be higher if all of the above standards were adhered to.
 

Weaselander

New Member
It would be interesting to try and compare the cost and depreciation of an electric bike, similar to what we do with cars. Right now, the IRS has put that cost at $0.58/mile. For the OP, that would equate to spending about $3k per year (again cost + depreciation). Personally, I hope that e-bikes come out much cheaper than a car, but then we need to demand parts designed to last.
 

Timpo

Well-Known Member
It would be interesting to try and compare the cost and depreciation of an electric bike, similar to what we do with cars. Right now, the IRS has put that cost at $0.58/mile. For the OP, that would equate to spending about $3k per year (again cost + depreciation). Personally, I hope that e-bikes come out much cheaper than a car, but then we need to demand parts designed to last.
I don't know if missed something, but ebikes are far cheaper to operate than cars. I don't think it is even a debate.
 

David Berry

Well-Known Member
It would be interesting to try and compare the cost and depreciation of an electric bike, similar to what we do with cars.
When I'm asked how much an ebike costs, I usually say 'about 10% of the cost of a car'. The enquirer will almost certainly be asking about the purchase price of an ebike so I don't venture into ongoing costs relating to cars versus ebikes.
 
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Weaselander

New Member
Yes, cars cost more and are more expensive to operate, but a good car should easily last 150k miles. The OP was wanting to ride over 5k miles per year. I haven't seen much here (or anywhere) about high mileage e-bikes and the total cost of ownership. I think it would be valuable to collect and present that information. Looking at used bikes, a new bike can easily lose 30% of its value in a year. So depreciation alone could be several thousands of dollars year 1.
 

Mass Deduction

Active Member
Where is the bike that can travel 40kms a day,5 days a week all year round without falling apart on the southern west coast of British Columbia. What the name of the bike that has a warranty accepting this challenge. Until you have the warranty, you don't have a reliable mode of transportation,you have an unreliable expensive toy.
A long warranty is good. A reliable product can be even better, since warranties are often only against defects and not against something wearing out (which can happen during the warranty period, and not be covered). A high quality bike pannier that'll stand up against wear (but only has a 5 year warranty) can be a better buy than a medium quality pannier that won't stand up as well against wear but has a lifetime warranty (but one that covers defects only). I look at bikes the same way.

Shimano's warranty is 2 years on their entire electric system (including the battery) against manufacturers defects. My experience dealing with dozens of people who own e-bikes with Shimano systems is pretty much zero problems from early 2016 to now, so nearly a four year period. (I can't think of any warranties at all, but I'll say "pretty much zero" in case I forgot one!) One woman I dealt with did finally start having a reduction in power assist strength after nearly 20K kilometres of riding, but after a re-and-re it was working fine again. And 20K clicks is no small amount of riding to need her first significant servicing!

I think Bosch and Yamaha are also probably nearly equally good to Shimano in overall quality. Brose I'm less sure of, I've experienced a lot of quality-assurance (or lack thereof) problems with Brose motors.

If buying Canadian is important to you then both Devinci and Opus are Canadian companies that exclusively use Shimano motors. Kona is a company that started in Canada (and the Canadian office is still very influential within the company) and uses a mix of Shimano and Bosch. Norco is also Canadian, and is also the authorized Bosch service centre for Canada through its Live to Play Sports division (though, amusingly, Norco sells e-bikes with Shimano motors almost exclusively, despite being the Bosch parts and service centre for Canada!).

I think buying from a Canadian company can have advantages for a Canadian citizen (if a part needs to be ordered in, it might come in faster for example coming from that company's warehouse than from the U.S. or China), but the reverse may be true when buying from a company that's re-badging Chinese bikes. There are lots of companies in Vancouver doing that, and good on them for being entrepreneurial but I'm concerned about the long-term parts and service availability of these no-name bikes.

For a do-it-yourselfer, it might be the right thing to go with a no-name bike if you like to tinker, or if it offers features and the ability to tune it in ways that the class-1 bikes from the big players don't. The rest of us are usually better served partnering with a bike shop that they get a good vibe from, and buying a brand name bike with a brand name motor. And there I'd recommend any of the big local bike shop brands mentioned in this thread, except for Specialized and Giant since my understanding is they expect you to go to a Giant or Specialized dealer only for service and for e-bike-specific parts. Whereas you won't have that problem with Devinci, Opus, Kona, Norco, Trek, etc. If you stick to Shimano or Bosch, you can go to any Shimano or Bosch dealer of which there are untold numbers of each.

But overall when you look at price, long-term durability, size of the dealer network, quality level, weight-to-cost ratio, weight-to-torque ratio, Shimano is usually far and away the best bang for the buck for anyone looking for a class 1 e-bike. For class 2 or 3 you obviously have to look elsewhere.

Full disclosure I do own a bike shop on Vancouver Island, but we sell all four of the big players (Shimano, Bosch, Yamaha, and Brose), and routinely check out new entrants (we just got a bike in with a Promovec motor, and have a bike with a Bafang OEM mid-drive on order). But if that makes me biased, it's only because the Shimano bikes offer us the fewest problems by far. :)
 
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Mass Deduction

Active Member
Yes, cars cost more and are more expensive to operate, but a good car should easily last 150k miles. The OP was wanting to ride over 5k miles per year. I haven't seen much here (or anywhere) about high mileage e-bikes and the total cost of ownership. I think it would be valuable to collect and present that information. Looking at used bikes, a new bike can easily lose 30% of its value in a year. So depreciation alone could be several thousands of dollars year 1.
I own a bike shop in BC, so possibly similar terrain to the OP (they didn't say where in southwestern BC they are). We have customers doing that kind of mileage, such as the woman I mentioned in the previous post who has now done over 20K klicks. She bought the bike in January 2017, so she's coming up on three years of ownership. Other than new bike parts (brake pads, chains, etc.), the only thing she's had to do is that one motor re-and-re (remove, regrease with electrically conductive waterproof grease, and reinstall). She's doing about 7500 KM a year or so on a Shimano STePS 6000 motor. All my high mileage customers have opted for Shimano e-bikes (probably because Shimano e-bikes are typically the longest range per Wh of battery, so these kinds of customers gravitate to Shimano e-bikes), so I can't offer any similarly high-mileage anecdotes for Bosch, Brose, or Yamaha yet, and we no longer sell anything from companies without track records of long parts availability so I can't comment on the reliability of no-name product over the long haul (other than to say our experience with it in years past, meaning product we sold 2015 and earlier, was very bad).
 
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Timpo

Well-Known Member
Yes, cars cost more and are more expensive to operate, but a good car should easily last 150k miles. The OP was wanting to ride over 5k miles per year. I haven't seen much here (or anywhere) about high mileage e-bikes and the total cost of ownership. I think it would be valuable to collect and present that information. Looking at used bikes, a new bike can easily lose 30% of its value in a year. So depreciation alone could be several thousands of dollars year 1.
You can't be serious about comparing ebikes vs cars for ownership cost.
It's just so obvious.

Cars cost $20,000 to buy, you will lose tons of money on depreciation.
And an okay ebike can cost $2,000 but you will only lose few hundred bucks, even if it depreciate down to zero in several years, you only lost $2,000 in depreciation. Whereas cars, if it goes down to $18,000, you already lost $2,000 in depreciation.

You do realize many car owners spend gas money every year to buy a new ebike right?
On top of that, insurance.

Depending on where you live, insurance can be very expensive.. enough to buy another ebike.
In addition to insurance (that's possibly enough to buy another ebike), there's fuel cost. And many people pay thousands of $ just for fuel a year (another ebike)

On top of that, regular maintenance cost, which can add up very quickly. Also incidental cost like parking tickets, etc.
 

Mass Deduction

Active Member
The Canadian Automobile Association estimates that the average cost to own and operate a compact car in Canada is $9500 (CAD) a year: https://www.caa.ca/caa-provides-real-picture-of-annual-driving-costs/

The average Canadian underestimates their car ownership costs by about $4000 as well, apparently.

However you slice it, e-bikes are crazy cheap to operate. It varies by local power costs of course, and electricity is very cheap where I live, but a full charge on a 500 Wh battery costs about 2-3 cents here if I did the math correctly. Even considering the hit to maintenance and longevity with each charge of the battery and each use of the bike, it's drastically cheaper than a car. Heck, it's cheaper than buying bus fare, at least where I live.
 

Timpo

Well-Known Member
The Canadian Automobile Association estimates that the average cost to own and operate a compact car in Canada is $9500 (CAD) a year: https://www.caa.ca/caa-provides-real-picture-of-annual-driving-costs/

The average Canadian underestimates their car ownership costs by about $4000 as well, apparently.

However you slice it, e-bikes are crazy cheap to operate. It varies by local power costs of course, and electricity is very cheap where I live, but a full charge on a 500 Wh battery costs about 2-3 cents here if I did the math correctly. Even considering the hit to maintenance and longevity with each charge of the battery and each use of the bike, it's drastically cheaper than a car. Heck, it's cheaper than buying bus fare, at least where I live.
yeah, and average ebike from Canadian companies like Amego, Surface 604, VoltBike, SparkBike, etc.. will cost you probably $2,500 Canadian.

The annual cost to operate will be a few hundred dollars a year (chain change, tire/tube change, broken spokes, brake pads, brake cable/fluid, etc.) and new battery every couple of years.