Removing the speed limit of 20 miles/hr

Sai Kodi

Member
I am looking to do some serious commuting on the RadRover during wet conditions. By serious I mean 26 miles each way 4 days a week. In order to do that, I want to be able to go at a much higher speed than being capped at 20 mph.

So I have 2 questions:
1. Beyond 20 mph - Has anyone been able to fool the system yet so it allows going above 20 mph? If so, how? I do understand that it will void the warranty and to be honest, I am past that blocker and am ready to set it free if possible.
2. Gearing - As of now, with PAS 5 and at 20 mph, its very difficult to keep up pedaling even in gear #7. Has anyone changed the cassette gearing to allow easy pedaling higher speeds?

I am new to the bikes world (transitioning from motorcycles). Still learning the terminology.

Note: Battery is not a problem since I intend to buy a second battery and carry it with me on the rack. Two batteries should be plenty enough to go 26 miles even at PAS 5.

Let me know what you guys think.
 

Sai Kodi

Member
Well either that, or I get a different bike which is speed capable and comes with full fenders out of the box even if it has a slightly higher cost. I am not sure if the RadRover is good as a commuting bike.
 

Thomas Jaszewski

Well-Known Member
Some motors can be overvolted for higher speeds. Unless is has a programmable controller and you get a more powerful battery you are likely stuck with the top speed. I don't know the model of motor or any details to answer more definitively.
 

mrgold35

Well-Known Member
You can set the motor cut off speed up to 25 mph (40 k/hr) for the Radrover on the LCD set-up screen.

- Turn the battery pack and LCD screen on
- press/hold the up and down arrows on LCD controller to enter set-up mode
- use the center "mode" button to scroll the options of wheel size, motor cut off speed, screen brightness, and mile or km for LCD display
- the motor cut off should be set 32 k/hr (20 mph). The motor cut off speed is only displayed in k/hr and you can adjust up or down 1 k/hr increments. I think the lowest is 11 k/hr (7 mph) and the highest is 40 k/hr (24.85 mph).
- press and hold "mode" button to get out of set up screen

I not sure how exact the mph gauges are for the Radrover (26" rim set in LCD set-up screen; but, 29" tire circumference). My Radrover LCD speed is 1 to 1.2 mph slower compared to the displayed radar speed when I pass two different neighborhood radar speed stands on my +6 mile work commute.

The fastest I can pedal is about 23 mph (70-75 rpm) before I look/feel like a hamster on an exercise wheel. I can only reach those speeds because I'm mostly at a decline going to work (5400ft down to 4900ft). I set my controller to 36 k/hr (22.4 mph) since 23 is my max pedal speed going to work. I'm lucky to maintain 20-21 mph on level ground at PAS 5 because of the heavy bike, my weight of 260lbs+25lbs of cold weather gear/rack/backpack/lunch/work cloths, upright riding position, usual head wind, and knobby tires. I end up using PAS 4 on the way home because it is up hill and ALWAYS a headwind. I would be at a constant 750 watts for +30 minutes in PAS 5 on the way home.

I did upgrade my tires to 120 tpi Vee 8 and they seem to roll a little easier, much less noise compared to the Kenda, a lot more knobs for a smoother ride, a little less road vibration felt because of the softer sidewall, and pretty good traction on paved roads and hard packed trails. I'm also playing with the PSI and the Vee 8 still feel pretty good anywhere in the 20-26 PSI range (higher the PSI, lower the rolling resistance, better for range).

On level ground (and only headwind is from the speed of the bike), I can maintain 17-18 mph in PAS 3 (350-375 watts). I use this PAS level when I know I need the range of 25-30 miles at a minimum. I can do 19-21 mph in PAS 4 (500-550 watts) on level ground; but, that will drop my range around 18-23 miles depending on how hard I pedal, terrain, and wind. I sometimes take my wife's Radrover battery on windy days if I ride on the weekends between 25-30 miles. I only had to use the extra battery once when the battery LCD indicator started to blink at 3 miles from home on extremely windy day after about 25 miles into the ride.

If you are planning to ride that long, I would get a good flat repair kit, Mr. Tuffy tire liners, tools to remove rear tire, spare inner tube, Stans tire sealant, good bicycle pump, and back-up plan if that isn't enough. I ended up running over glass at 5:30am and sliced the rear tire with an 1/8" slit that also sliced the tire liner, inner tube, and leaked all the tire sealant out. I was only 4 miles from home and I was able to call the wife to pick me up (the reason for the Vee 8 upgrade).
 
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Trail Cruiser

Well-Known Member
The fastest I can pedal is about 23 mph (70-75 rpm) before I look/feel like a hamster on an exercise wheel. I can only reach those speeds because I'm mostly at a decline going to work (5400ft down to 4900ft). I set my controller to 36 k/hr (22.4 mph) since 23 is my max pedal speed going to work. I'm lucky to maintain 20-21 mph on level ground at PAS 5 because of the heavy bike, my weight of 260lbs+25lbs of cold weather gear/rack/backpack/lunch/work cloths, upright riding position, usual head wind, and knobby tires. I end up using PAS 4 on the way home because it is up hill and ALWAYS a headwind. I would be at a constant 750 watts for +30 minutes in PAS 5 on the way home.
Cadence is your friend if you want to maintain a higher cruising speed. Many non e-bike road cyclist usually maintain within the window of 85-105 RPM. Short distance sprinters train at cadence between 120-150.

If you are doing 75 RPM at 23 MPH then you will be kicking 91 RPM at 28 MPH which is the ideal RPM for sustained high speed cruising.
 

walawn

Active Member
The motor is wound for 20 mph. The power tapers off after that. If you install a 52V battery and change your speed limiter to 40 kph you may get about 4 more mph on top end if you're not too heavy. I did this at first with my Radrover and am 185 lbs. You can change the cassette to change your gearing but it's a challege. You will either have to cut and solder your wires which I don't recommend or cut your tool in half to get the old cassette off. Eventually you will want more. I installed a BBSHD and run a 52V dolphin pack and I get 30+ mph on the flats. The BBSHD controller is twice as powerful as the Radrover's stock controller, hence more voltage to the motor (1,760W vs. 750W).
 
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mrgold35

Well-Known Member
I don't think I could maintain a speed of +23 mph on level ground with just leg power hauling around +350 lbs of Radrover (bike+me+ riding gear+water+accessories+rack+bag).:(

I would have to go with a different bike to maintain that kinda speed without using PAS-5 at full 750 watts on level ground. I have a hard time keeping up with my 4' 11", 125 lbs wife on her radrover at the same PAS level because she is so much lighter to me compared to what I have to haul around on my radrover (I'm 6'3" and +265lbs when riding).

I like the Radrover as a commuter bike because:
- the 4" fat tires can smooth out the road imperfections,
- I can transition from road, side walks, dirt lots, sand, and hop curbs without missing a beat
- upright riding position for comfort
- I can detour on the way to convert from commuter duties to trail riding and hit the +20 miles single track trails on the way home near Rio Grande river
- the suspension forks help smooth out the road a little more
- being a Class II bike with throttle+PAS comes in handy
- So far, Class II bikes are mostly allowed every where a regular bike can go in most places (side walks, bike paths, parks, etc...).
- added a suspension seat post and larger seat for comfort (bodyfloat with orange springs+Sunlite cloud-9 11.5X12.5 seat)
- pretty good 180mm brakes front/back for emergency stops to avoid distracted drivers. I think the brakes work very well with the larger contact patch you get with the 4" tires.
- 16-18 mph cruising and 20-23 mph max road speed is fast enough for me for my type of commuting
 
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Thomas Jaszewski

Well-Known Member
These brake systems just aren't good enough for higher speeds. Many are riding faster bikes with original brakes and taking much bigger risks than riding without a helmet. I take every bike out and do the Motorcycle Safety Foundation quick stop exercises. At 30 MPH every bike I've tired with mid grade brakes is off the chart for braking distance in a panic stop, at those speeds. 20MPH is much different.
There are hydraulic disc brakes capable but we're talking HUNDREDS of dollar for each wheel. $500-800 for a set. My opinion FWIW.
 

Sai Kodi

Member
I agree with everything that you all have said. I have come to a realization that perhaps the RadRover is not suited for my commuting needs. I need to travel 26 miles each way in the shortest time possible. The gearing makes it impossible for me to pedal it at anything > 18.5 mph for longer duration. I have definitely tried it multiple times and it is not comfortable.

Also, going in PAS 3&4, the battery seems to last 20-21 miles with some hills (Seattle area - hills are unavoidable). I tried to go down to PAS 3 and put more human effort but I have to be god to push this thing forward even on slight inclinations to maintain higher speeds due to the wider tires. I do like the comfort though. Well, this is the by far the most comfortable bike I have ever ridden. I have had my fair share of bikes (non-electric) but they dont compare to the level of comfort that RadRover provides. Also another thing I like about it is the throttle. Whenever I am tired after exerting too much effort to get it going at a higher speed, I did like the option of throttling my way. :)

I just dont think it is up for a 26 mile commute. I am planning to sell it out as I have upgraded to a better bike (at least so I think): "Haibike Xduro FullSeven S RX". I will receive the bike today and I am hoping it will be better in all aspects that I care about when compared to the RadRover of course at a significantly higher cost basis (times :)).

If any of you would want a RadRover, please reach out to me and I can sell you mine. Local is great (anywhere in Seattle).
 

Sai Kodi

Member
I do come from a motorcycle background. Have a Honda 919 and a Yamaha R6 in the garage right now but I dont like the look of it to be honest (purely my opinion). Motorcycles look way too good compared to that thing (again that is how I feel). Sorry if I hurt your feelings...
 

Sai Kodi

Member
These brake systems just aren't good enough for higher speeds. Many are riding faster bikes with original brakes and taking much bigger risks than riding without a helmet. I take every bike out and do the Motorcycle Safety Foundation quick stop exercises. At 30 MPH every bike I've tired with mid grade brakes is off the chart for braking distance in a panic stop, at those speeds. 20MPH is much different.
There are hydraulic disc brakes capable but we're talking HUNDREDS of dollar for each wheel. $500-800 for a set. My opinion FWIW.
Hey Thomas,

To me brakes are extremely important. I totally agree with you when it comes to stopping power and braking distance. Might as well limit the speed and mass when you dont have the breaking power!!
 

Thom473

Member
I do come from a motorcycle background. Have a Honda 919 and a Yamaha R6 in the garage right now but I dont like the look of it to be honest (purely my opinion). Motorcycles look way too good compared to that thing (again that is how I feel). Sorry if I hurt your feelings...
Don't worry, no feelings involved. My other ride is a BMW C600 sport. You just didn't sound like a committed ebike(r) so thot you (and others) might like to see something off the wall. As you can see by my photo, I prefer to sail anyway. Bikes and motorcycles are for when the wind dies.
 

Sai Kodi

Member
Don't worry, no feelings involved. My other ride is a BMW C600 sport. You just didn't sound like a committed ebike(r) so thot you (and others) might like to see something off the wall. As you can see by my photo, I prefer to sail anyway. Bikes and motorcycles are for when the wind dies.
Yeah no worries at all. I have been a committed motorcyclist so far. Between the 2, I put around 9000 miles per year. Have heated gear that lets me ride about 11 months in a year in Seattle. I am hoping to get to that with the ebikes too. :)
 

Lost

Active Member
These brake systems just aren't good enough for higher speeds. Many are riding faster bikes with original brakes and taking much bigger risks than riding without a helmet. I take every bike out and do the Motorcycle Safety Foundation quick stop exercises. At 30 MPH every bike I've tired with mid grade brakes is off the chart for braking distance in a panic stop, at those speeds. 20MPH is much different.
There are hydraulic disc brakes capable but we're talking HUNDREDS of dollar for each wheel. $500-800 for a set. My opinion FWIW.
You can get the hydraulic brakes pretty cheap actually if you are concerned about it. Less than $100 from lunacycle.

https://lunacycle.com/parts/bicycle-parts/brakes/shimano-hydraulic-disc-brake-set-for-bbshd-and-bbs02/

I may do it just for the front- which I already upgraded from 180mm to 203 mm. My concern is will the fork handle the added stress, but I would like is the power to lock up the front. (Not that I ever would, I just want powerful brakes.)

I feel it could use a touch bigger chain ring though.
 

vincent

Well-Known Member
lost if you get the hydraulics for the rover please let us know if your motor cut out still works or not

that is an upgrade i would love to do if the motor cut out works
 

Lost

Active Member
lost if you get the hydraulics for the rover please let us know if your motor cut out still works or not

that is an upgrade i would love to do if the motor cut out works
I can't imagine why they wouldn't. The levers on brakes have the ebrake cutout built in. You can see the extra wires in the product photos on the luna website. What you do lose is that handy bell.
 

vincent

Well-Known Member
my understanding is that for some dumb reason all these bafang setups are not wired the same

so i am not sure that brake kit will plug into your rover wiring harness- or be wired right even if it does plug in
maybe on the brake cut offs it is different and they tend to be the same....

let me know what luna says and if it works, if it does i will definitely do it to my mini and rover
 

mrgold35

Well-Known Member
I agree with everything that you all have said. I have come to a realization that perhaps the RadRover is not suited for my commuting needs. I need to travel 26 miles each way in the shortest time possible. The gearing makes it impossible for me to pedal it at anything > 18.5 mph for longer duration. I have definitely tried it multiple times and it is not comfortable.

Also, going in PAS 3&4, the battery seems to last 20-21 miles with some hills (Seattle area - hills are unavoidable). I tried to go down to PAS 3 and put more human effort but I have to be god to push this thing forward even on slight inclinations to maintain higher speeds due to the wider tires. I do like the comfort though. Well, this is the by far the most comfortable bike I have ever ridden. I have had my fair share of bikes (non-electric) but they dont compare to the level of comfort that RadRover provides. Also another thing I like about it is the throttle. Whenever I am tired after exerting too much effort to get it going at a higher speed, I did like the option of throttling my way. :)

I just dont think it is up for a 26 mile commute. I am planning to sell it out as I have upgraded to a better bike (at least so I think): "Haibike Xduro FullSeven S RX". I will receive the bike today and I am hoping it will be better in all aspects that I care about when compared to the RadRover of course at a significantly higher cost basis (times :)).

If any of you would want a RadRover, please reach out to me and I can sell you mine. Local is great (anywhere in Seattle).
I feel your pain with the Radrover. The only thing that makes my RR work for me is I have to travel half the daily distance and traverse main streets down to dirt lots on my ride compared to you (and +20 miles of single track trails I can detour into for fun 1/2 way home near the Rio Grande river).

The RR is an excellent value and is a jack of all trades; but, a master of none. It is a perfect starter ebike to dip your toe into the ebike world and test its capabilities in a lot different riding environments to see how it fits into your lifestyle. I'm thinking I will eventually upgrade to a full suspension mid-drive MTB with the 2.8" tires in the next year or two. I like the ideal of having a mid-drive and purchasing extra tires/rims combos to switch out for aggressive trail riding or for smooth weekday commuting.

Please report back on a side-by-side comparison of the Haibike and RR on your +26 miles commute in Seattle. I'm thinking you will get the same smooth ride with Haibike tires+full suspension, more TQ for hills, higher sustained speeds, and the added bonus of 2X-3X the range.