Riese & Müller Over kill ?

Rick53

Member
These are really nice looking well made Bikes : In a way though they seem like too much : Compared to something like a Specialized Como or Vado that still look like Pedal Bikes : Don't get me wrong : I am considering a Charger or Super Charger : Butttt I have also test ridden the Como and Vado as well as a Trek Verve : They feel like Bikes : Anyone know what I mean ? Do I really want to pay 7000.00 to go 28MPH on a Tank vs 3500.00 on something that still looks alot like a regular Bike?

Guess I need to come out of retirement lol
 

Dentman333

New Member
These are really nice looking well made Bikes : In a way though they seem like too much : Compared to something like a Specialized Como or Vado that still look like Pedal Bikes : Don't get me wrong : I am considering a Charger or Super Charger : Butttt I have also test ridden the Como and Vado as well as a Trek Verve : They feel like Bikes : Anyone know what I mean ? Do I really want to pay 7000.00 to go 28MPH on a Tank vs 3500.00 on something that still looks alot like a regular Bike?

Guess I need to come out of retirement lol
Hard to make a comparison. Kinda like deciding between an Infiniti or a Mercedes. Both are great cars but have different appeal. Have you ridden an R&M?
 

rich c

Well-Known Member
If it's pleasure riding, buy something that brings you pleasure. I had a hard time justifying my first Haibike, now I have two. I still smile 3 years latter and enjoy every minute. Too many reports of cracked frames and early software issues for me to consider a Specialized, despite how nice they look. The one I'm going to have some restraint issues with is the Trek Allant. Just as nice looking as the Specialized, plus the two battery mounting system. Retirement is the time to spend money. It's just the kids' inheritance after all.
 

onethinline

New Member
You have to test ride a Riese & Muller to have a sense of what they're about. They put a lot of focus on the suspension system, with which their stated intention is just as much about control as it is comfort. But test riding R&Ms, I could certainly tell it was a cushier, more premium ride in terms of the feel of the bike on the road. That said, I ended up opting for a Gazelle CityZen, both to save money and get a bike much sooner, but also because I liked the sportier feel of the less-suspended Gazelle. Still, I wouldn't be mad about owning an R&M some day.
 
Its actually my wife that daily drives the R&M; I have been relegated to her older Diamondback Lindau EXC: a 2014 $2500 20mph class 2 E-bike. (Henceforth "the DB")

The difference is stark: the thousands of dollars more really deliver the mail. The trail quality where I ride is horrific, tree roots have pushed up the pavement, and the lack of suspension on the DB makes for a punishing ride. Between the fat tires and full suspension, the R&M eats all that up such that the rider barely notices. The DB is really on or off - it doesn't analyze my effort, it just notices I'm pedaling and gives 100%; it's near impossible to go less than top speed. The R&M can go any speed you want (so long as it isn't more than 28mph, though if you have the Roloff transmission the 28mph isn't such a brick wall).

The real problem with the R&M's is that they are just too damn expensive. Yes it's a fine bike, to be sure, but having to fork over $7k to get the right bike is frustrating. And hell now a fully loaded Super Delite is like what $12k?? Insane.

Having put 1000's of miles on both bikes, its hard not to want another R&M.
The DB is just about done at 3200 miles:
- the cables are stretched
- the brakes are gone, the brake levers and their adjustments are destroyed
- if you take your hands off the handlebars the front end gets a significant death wobble going
- there have been wiring gremlins that caused it not to function correctly from time to time
- there is duct tape and a chunk of a plastic Costco fork holding various pieces in place
+ wildly the chain and cassettes are still going and don't skip
- there are various squeaks and rattles
- the battery capacity is down 20-30% and a new battery of course doesn't exist.

The R&M has 1500 miles on it and it's basically the exact same as the day we bought it. Its actually a bit faster as the transmission has broken in/loosened up. I haven't had to adjust anything, or change anything. The belt did jump once when it got full of mud, but I think that was my fault.

I specifically went after the R&M after her first year on the DB daily: it was a constant headache and was becoming unsafe to ride or otherwise unreliable with the electrical gremlins. Now she rides a bike I won't even have to think about for the foreseeable future, save tires and brakes.

The DB is more of an appliance, to be thrown away after it's useful life. The R&M rides like a bike I'll still have 20yrs from now. And that's really the question: do you intend to put thousands or even tens of thousands of miles on the bike over the next years, possibly decades? Buy an R&M. If you are more likely to put a thousand miles, maybe two thousand, on the bike in the next few years and that'll be that, you could save a lot of money (albeit with many daily sacrifices) by buying one of those $3-4k Taiwanese bikes. Just a weekend bike or fair weather rider? Don't get the R&M, unless money isn't hard to come by and you just like nice things. But if you live in a metro city and intend to ride a bike daily for years without having to think much (or at all) about the bike, the R&M is a perfect fit (sucks about that price though.)
 

Dentman333

New Member
Its actually my wife that daily drives the R&M; I have been relegated to her older Diamondback Lindau EXC: a 2014 $2500 20mph class 2 E-bike. (Henceforth "the DB")

The difference is stark: the thousands of dollars more really deliver the mail. The trail quality where I ride is horrific, tree roots have pushed up the pavement, and the lack of suspension on the DB makes for a punishing ride. Between the fat tires and full suspension, the R&M eats all that up such that the rider barely notices. The DB is really on or off - it doesn't analyze my effort, it just notices I'm pedaling and gives 100%; it's near impossible to go less than top speed. The R&M can go any speed you want (so long as it isn't more than 28mph, though if you have the Roloff transmission the 28mph isn't such a brick wall).

The real problem with the R&M's is that they are just too damn expensive. Yes it's a fine bike, to be sure, but having to fork over $7k to get the right bike is frustrating. And hell now a fully loaded Super Delite is like what $12k?? Insane.

Having put 1000's of miles on both bikes, its hard not to want another R&M.
The DB is just about done at 3200 miles:
- the cables are stretched
- the brakes are gone, the brake levers and their adjustments are destroyed
- if you take your hands off the handlebars the front end gets a significant death wobble going
- there have been wiring gremlins that caused it not to function correctly from time to time
- there is duct tape and a chunk of a plastic Costco fork holding various pieces in place
+ wildly the chain and cassettes are still going and don't skip
- there are various squeaks and rattles
- the battery capacity is down 20-30% and a new battery of course doesn't exist.

The R&M has 1500 miles on it and it's basically the exact same as the day we bought it. Its actually a bit faster as the transmission has broken in/loosened up. I haven't had to adjust anything, or change anything. The belt did jump once when it got full of mud, but I think that was my fault.

I specifically went after the R&M after her first year on the DB daily: it was a constant headache and was becoming unsafe to ride or otherwise unreliable with the electrical gremlins. Now she rides a bike I won't even have to think about for the foreseeable future, save tires and brakes.

The DB is more of an appliance, to be thrown away after it's useful life. The R&M rides like a bike I'll still have 20yrs from now. And that's really the question: do you intend to put thousands or even tens of thousands of miles on the bike over the next years, possibly decades? Buy an R&M. If you are more likely to put a thousand miles, maybe two thousand, on the bike in the next few years and that'll be that, you could save a lot of money (albeit with many daily sacrifices) by buying one of those $3-4k Taiwanese bikes. Just a weekend bike or fair weather rider? Don't get the R&M, unless money isn't hard to come by and you just like nice things. But if you live in a metro city and intend to ride a bike daily for years without having to think much (or at all) about the bike, the R&M is a perfect fit (sucks about that price though.)
Price is what you pay. Value is what you get.
 

Rick53

Member
You have to test ride a Riese & Muller to have a sense of what they're about. They put a lot of focus on the suspension system, with which their stated intention is just as much about control as it is comfort. But test riding R&Ms, I could certainly tell it was a cushier, more premium ride in terms of the feel of the bike on the road. That said, I ended up opting for a Gazelle CityZen, both to save money and get a bike much sooner, but also because I liked the sportier feel of the less-suspended Gazelle. Still, I wouldn't be mad about owning an R&M some day.
Gazelle's are nice Bikes : In My Area Michigan on the Lake Michigan Side : It's Trek & Specialized : I also live where Bike Trails are very numerous : But so are long country rolling roads with limited to no Traffic : So 28MPH seems to be a Must : Not opposed to mail order : It does seem like the Vast Majority of available Motors are limited to 20 MPH like with R&M Not 100% sure on Gazelle as I haven't researched them much. I will say the Specialized Vado and Como are pretty plain : But both are Flyers : I have until March to decide : As 10 inches of Snow already on ground . Likely until March
 

Alaskan

Well-Known Member
The most common comment I have heard from new ebike owners is almost always something like: "I never imagined I would be riding a bike this often or this far" Buying a cheaper, mass produced bike may or may not give you the same quality of "whoopee!!" experience that boosts you right into an enthusiastic embrace of ebiking. All too often people who buy lesser bikes seem to arrive at regrets sooner because the bike's inherent limitations just never quite enabled it to do what they want. Personally I ended up spending way more than I initially thought I would or should. Given how much time I now spend on my bike, something I never could have imagined, I am glad I spent what I did and got a bike I can count on, that enhances my enjoyment every time I ride it.

My advice: test ride lots of bikes until you find the one that puts the biggest grin on your face and the people selling it you like the best. Then, if you can possibly afford it, pay more than you first thought you were willing to spend.

The pain of paying out some more money wears off quickly. The joy of riding a bike that really suits you will endure long into the future every time you saddle up.
 

onethinline

New Member
Gazelle's are nice Bikes : In My Area Michigan on the Lake Michigan Side : It's Trek & Specialized : I also live where Bike Trails are very numerous : But so are long country rolling roads with limited to no Traffic : So 28MPH seems to be a Must : Not opposed to mail order : It does seem like the Vast Majority of available Motors are limited to 20 MPH like with R&M Not 100% sure on Gazelle as I haven't researched them much. I will say the Specialized Vado and Como are pretty plain : But both are Flyers : I have until March to decide : As 10 inches of Snow already on ground . Likely until March
My Gazelle CityZen T10 Speed is a 28mph bike. I believe Gazelle has a number of 28mph options, and I know Riese & Muller do as well. Just be sure to specify you're looking for the 28mph speed models when you shop for both. I was only considering 28mph when I was shopping, and R&M was in the running.
 

Rick53

Member
My Gazelle CityZen T10 Speed is a 28mph bike. I believe Gazelle has a number of 28mph options, and I know Riese & Muller do as well. Just be sure to specify you're looking for the 28mph speed models when you shop for both. I was only considering 28mph when I was shopping, and R&M was in the running.
The most common comment I have heard from new ebike owners is almost always something like: "I never imagined I would be riding a bike this often or this far" Buying a cheaper, mass produced bike may or may not give you the same quality of "whoopee!!" experience that boosts you right into an enthusiastic embrace of ebiking. All too often people who buy lesser bikes seem to arrive at regrets sooner because the bike's inherent limitations just never quite enabled it to do what they want. Personally I ended up spending way more than I initially thought I would or should. Given how much time I now spend on my bike, something I never could have imagined, I am glad I spent what I did and got a bike I can count on, that enhances my enjoyment every time I ride it.

My advice: test ride lots of bikes until you find the one that puts the biggest grin on your face and the people selling it you like the best. Then, if you can possibly afford it, pay more than you first thought you were willing to spend.

The pain of paying out some more money wears off quickly. The joy of riding a bike that really suits you will endure long into the future every time you saddle up.
I don't know if I consider myself a Bike Enthusiast : I like it : I just have a lot of other interests Don't misunderstand I ride almost every day the 4 Months maybe 5 I have the weather for. I average 7 miles a day . Sometimes more in a day. It's all I have time for . My interest in an e-bike at least for starters . Would be to go farther faster in the same amount of time . Maybe twice a month I go with friends and we maybe ride 20-25 miles.

I also don't call Specialized and or Trek low quality : IMO E-Bikes are overpriced : Thanks for your Input :
 

Rick53

Member
My Gazelle CityZen T10 Speed is a 28mph bike. I believe Gazelle has a number of 28mph options, and I know Riese & Muller do as well. Just be sure to specify you're looking for the 28mph speed models when you shop for both. I was only considering 28mph when I was shopping, and R&M was in the running.
Can you get near 28 easy enough? How does that bike climb and take off?
 

Cowlitz

Well-Known Member
I went with a Gazelle, also. I tried a R&M and it was nice, but felt heavy and less responsive than the Gazelle. It was heavier. I ended up with a Gazelle Arroyo and I don't care to go very fast on it. I have hit 21mph going downhill.

Just got back from a grocery trip with it. It should have been a 4 mile ride but I turned it into a 13 mile ride, and am now warming up in the house cuz I got caught in the rain.
 

gtpharr

Member
These are really nice looking well made Bikes : In a way though they seem like too much : Compared to something like a Specialized Como or Vado that still look like Pedal Bikes : Don't get me wrong : I am considering a Charger or Super Charger : Butttt I have also test ridden the Como and Vado as well as a Trek Verve : They feel like Bikes : Anyone know what I mean ? Do I really want to pay 7000.00 to go 28MPH on a Tank vs 3500.00 on something that still looks alot like a regular Bike?

Guess I need to come out of retirement lol
You don't have to spend $7,000. I just paid $4,779 for an R&M Nevo GH delivered to my door. Most other similar bikes were $3,500 or so and very, very few had the Enviolo/Nuvinci hub and belt drive which I am very happy with. The hub and belt drive were well worth the extra $1,000 - $1,300 to me.

When I shopped & purchased in Sep, there were plenty of deals to be had on in stock 2019 bikes that dealers wanted to move. I found a brand new 2019 chain drive Super Charger for $5,800 if I wanted it. I also found a chain drive Nevo with Dual Battery for around $5,600 (I can't remember the exact price). I strongly considered both bikes, but eventually passed as I really wanted to try an IGH with belt drive.

The Nevo I bought is for my wife who is still healing from a shoulder replacement surgery. I've been riding the Nevo for a while and absolutely love it. I'll by buying something for myself soon. Not sure what I'll get but I'm pretty sure it will be another R&M and it will definitely have IGH with belt drive.

Last but not least, I still feel like I'm riding a bike on the Nevo. I don't feel as sporty and nimble as I do on my Trek Pilot and Specialized Roubaix. However, I am much more comfortable on the Nevo and I'm all about comfort these days! The overall value of what I got for $4,779 makes our Nevo a "Best Buy" for me.