Some new design features in Surface line up

Mike's E-Bikes

Well-Known Member
Product shipping in August. Let's call it version 2 of their current line up.

New color displays.
All displays will have USB jack.
All models will have available 10 and 14 Ah batteries.
Torque sensors being moved back to rear hub area.
180 mm rotors on front and back for their hydraulic brakes.

Other subtle tweaks in frame design, controller positioning, and head set. Aim for more reliability and serviceability.

And yep, the price is going from $1799 to $1999 on Rook and Colt. (Was $1899 year before last, so not really a big change.)

Prices going up on shred and boar hunters too.

I have liked the Rook over the Magnum Metro over the past couple of years, and with the Metro price increased to $2175, and not having a torque sensor, not having front and back integrated lights, and the now available 14 Ah battery on Rook (or Colt), the surface is the better value ebike. The torque sensor gave it better range than the cadence of the Metro, despite a smaller battery. Now with 14 Ah battery, I could see folks getting 65 miles on a Rook or Colt in level 1 and maybe level 2 on relatively flat terrain. The color display I could give or take.

USB port at the display is nice.

Moving the torque sensor back, resolves several problems that occurred when they tried the bottom bracket position approach.

Very few hub drives have this benefit, and even fewer get it right in terms of tuning. So we'll see how this goes. Cautiously optimistic.
 

Mike's E-Bikes

Well-Known Member
Interesting, because in one of Court's reviews he said the bottom bracket location was superior (without saying why).
Nope. It was not superior. Mostly all plastic, some cases caused squealing at the crank, the torque wire would get ripped out, it was susceptible to damage when field service techs did not follow instructions to remove it, and at times would not even sense anything. Then holes in battery area, and seat tube would allow water to seep in, if caught in rain, and then rust, and bam you have failed sensor. Now that they have gone back to rear mount, My understanding from Surface is they had too many warranty claims. ( Of course they wouldnt admit it while we were having the issues.) It was inconsistent in its performance and reliability. Many have had no issues. Enough did to force the change.
 

smorgasbord

Active Member
I found Court's review of the 2018 Shred. In it, Court said:
The Bafang torque+cadence sensing bottom bracket used for this electric bike is VERY GOOD and really surprised me during the test rides, it must be a newer generation because it felt so natural and responsive
and in a subsequent comment said:
My favorite part about the drive system is how natural and fluid the torque sensing bottom bracket feels.
But one commenter did report that both bikes he bought had their torque sensors break, while another felt it wasn't sensitive at light or hard pedaling. I don't know much about torque sensors other than the theory of their operation. If a torque sensor in the bottom bracket is subject to water problems, then how are torque sensors at the rear protected? Seems like they'd be more exposed, so I guess they're somehow better sealed.
 

Mike's E-Bikes

Well-Known Member
I found Court's review of the 2018 Shred. In it, Court said: and in a subsequent comment said:

But one commenter did report that both bikes he bought had their torque sensors break, while another felt it wasn't sensitive at light or hard pedaling. I don't know much about torque sensors other than the theory of their operation. If a torque sensor in the bottom bracket is subject to water problems, then how are torque sensors at the rear protected? Seems like they'd be more exposed, so I guess they're somehow better sealed.
The problem at the bottom bracket location is that when water gets in, the bottom bracket will develop rust, and the wire design also is prone to be broken when the forces occurring cause interference. The sensor going in the rear (mounted at the drop out location) is not affected by water or exposure to elements with the way it is designed. And no external casing is around it, that can cause it to be affected like it was when it was internal inside the bottom bracket. Also, The one in the bottom bracket was more of a speed sensing design that would calculate 'torque'. The one in the back is more of a strain gauge design. At least that is my understanding of the two. The new GM at Surface explained the bottom bracket design was not a true torque sensor, but had the desired effect of what a torque sensor would do in terms of performance. Versus that of a cadence sensor, which is basically magnets being detected and telling the motor that there is rotation and to be activated. Torque sensing responds in a way that would detect effort made by the rider, and not just simple rotation. That is what gives the rider the experience of a more natural feel,similar to a regular bike where the harder you press the faster you go.

Too complicated of a subject to explain more here, but the above is my best attempt to put it in layman's terms without getting too technical.
 

vanrigt

New Member
I used to have a Smartmotion Pacer and I really liked the torque sensor. This Rook I have now feels like it has no torque sensor at all, so either its highly inferior or broken.... Would the bike still operate correctly if the torque sensor on my bike was broken?
 

iena

New Member
Hey Mike,

Did you get this info from Surface 604 support? Also, do you know if pre-ordered bikes as of now will be equipped with the new equipment? Thanks.