Super Commuter Version 1.1

Ravi Kempaiah

Well-Known Member
#1
I am helping a friend to refine his product and get his start-up running. We have been testing some prototype bikes that are well thought-out and extremely capable.

The first prototype is aimed at producing very capable, low-maintenance commuter. The picture shows a bike with Gates+Rohloff combo but wheels, brakes, tires are not what we want it to be.

Some highlights:

Clean Ti frame, with internal routing.
Bafang-ultra limited to 750W federal limit and 28mph in PAS.
[We had to sign an agreement with Bafang to tweak the firmware, get the light output to 12V instead of 6V.]

Rohloff hub - not the E-14, just the manual
Gates carbon drive
1250 Whr custom battery by EM3ev with 2 yr warranty and smart BMS, Bluetooth app for measuring the state of charge (Base model will come with 850Whr battery that is similar to the EM3ev Jumo shark pack)
Programmable Cycle satiator charger - 8A fast charging
Tubus racks
Front and rear E-bike specific lights - Lezyne 1000 lumens
Schwalbe Supermoto-X tires - 2.4" tires
30mm wide tubeless ready rims.
SR Suntour AIR fork with 100mm travel.
Tektro 4-piston brakes
Kinekt/ Body float seatpost
Price of the decked out bike = $5800

By replacing the Rohloff with Nuvinci, Ti frame to Al, price will go down significantly.

Before sending the final version to the production run, I thought I would share it here so I could get your feedback on the product design and features.


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SC 2 - lights.jpeg
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J.R.

Well-Known Member
#3
The written specs sound great. I've never seen the jumbo, how well will the battery fit on the frame? I would love the range! Motor power is perfect, I commend you keeping it legal. Looking at the first picture, the headtube looks too tall for that fork. In the picture it gives the impression the frame is raised at the front. Hard to tell if that's the case from a photo though.
 

JRA

Well-Known Member
#4
Do you plan on adding any upper seat stay braze ons for a rack? Have you gotten the battery yet to get a final weight? Will the battery take an 8A charge rate, I guess that is a stupid question considering your credentials but I thought that the largest 18650 cells weren't up to that much?

Looking good though and seems like for the fit and finish the pricing is in the ball park. I have always been a fan of Ti and it is not that prevalent in the eBike market place.
 

Ravi Kempaiah

Well-Known Member
#5
I like everything about it ! Are you sure the Nuvinci can handle the torque of the Ultra ?
Good point. Since the motor is restricted to 750W, the cargo edition of Enviolo 380Se (the one used in TERN GSD S00) should handle the torque. We have reprogrammed the motor for a smooth ramp up of power so people don't get blindsided by sudden burst of power. With great power comes great responsibility ;).

The written specs sound great. I've never seen the jumbo, how well will the battery fit on the frame? I would love the range! Motor power is perfect, I commend you keeping it legal. Looking at the first picture, the headtube looks too tall for that fork. In the picture it gives the impression the frame is raised at the front. Hard to tell if that's the case from a photo though.
Thank you JR. The Jumbo pack kinda sticks out like Bosch or Yamaha battery but that's the only way to keep the price down without modifying the frame.
It's 52V, 17Ah pack with Samsung 3500mAh cells. The frame has decent rake and trail. Nothing too aggressive but I will check them again.

Do you plan on adding any upper seat stay braze ons for a rack? Have you gotten the battery yet to get a final weight? Will the battery take an 8A charge rate, I guess that is a stupid question considering your credentials but I thought that the largest 18650 cells weren't up to that much?

Looking good though and seems like for the fit and finish the pricing is in the ball park. I have always been a fan of Ti and it is not that prevalent in the eBike market place.
Ti frame with 1000+whr battery will weigh about 55lbs and the Al frame will be little more (both the Bafang Ultra and Rohloff add weight).
The production frames have internal routing and rear rack braze ons :)
Good point re: charging. Even at 8A, it's only 0.45C charging rate because the pack is quite big. I will check with Em3ev to make sure there are safety features to avoid any inadvertent problems that may arise with 8A charging. There are not many chargers that can suuply 8A at 58V but it may be better to restrict to 7A max.
 

Johnny

Active Member
#7
This has most of the things I had in mind for a great commuting ebike. You custom built with TI and Rohloff, 1250wh battery 8a charger and still it is close to Supercommuter's price while being far superior. That is how overpriced some of these big brand commuting ebikes are.

I wouldn't touch rohloff btw, cvt's are very inefficient.

Edit: Want to correct a misunderstanding, the statement should be read as "don't change rohloff with a nuvinci because nuvinci is a cvt and inefficient". You are talking about switching to a nuvinci to take the price down but I simply would not do it, yes rohloff is expensive but for a bike at this price I think it is a must have, it seems to be very durable , 14 gears have a very wide range and I would not think about changing it with something else especially a Nuvinci which is cvt (its average efficiency seems to be around %83 which in my opinion is quite low) not to mention its range is quite limited.
 
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Alaskan

Well-Known Member
#9
Nice looking bike with a fine spec sheet. Given the Rohloff, gates etc. I would suggest going with Shimano xt 8000 or Shimano Saint brakes I would also suggest going with a wider rim such as the Alexrim MD40. A front suspension upgrade option to Fox would be nice and optional fenders as well. Another good brake option would be the new magura mt5-e four piston version with brake light switching for the rear lights
 
#10
I am helping a friend to refine his product and get his start-up running. We have been testing some prototype bikes that are well thought-out and extremely capable.

The first prototype is aimed at producing very capable, low-maintenance commuter. The picture shows a bike with Gates+Rohloff combo but wheels, brakes, tires are not what we want it to be.

Some highlights:

Clean Ti frame, with internal routing.
Bafang-ultra limited to 750W federal limit and 28mph in PAS.
[We had to sign an agreement with Bafang to tweak the firmware, get the light output to 12V instead of 6V.]

Rohloff hub - not the E-14, just the manual
Gates carbon drive
1250 Whr custom battery by EM3ev with 2 yr warranty and smart BMS, Bluetooth app for measuring the state of charge (Base model will come with 850Whr battery that is similar to the EM3ev Jumo shark pack)
Programmable Cycle satiator charger - 8A fast charging
Tubus racks
Front and rear E-bike specific lights - Lezyne 1000 lumens
Schwalbe Supermoto-X tires - 2.4" tires
30mm wide tubeless ready rims.
SR Suntour AIR fork with 100mm travel.
Tektro 4-piston brakes
Kinekt/ Body float seatpost
Price of the decked out bike = $5800

By replacing the Rohloff with Nuvinci, Ti frame to Al, price will go down significantly.

Before sending the final version to the production run, I thought I would share it here so I could get your feedback on the product design and features.


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View attachment 30770
How much does the bike weigh?
Is the motor user-programmable?
 

Ravi Kempaiah

Well-Known Member
#14
A front suspension upgrade option to Fox would be nice and optional fenders as well.
Thanks, Richard!
The bike will have SR Suntour fork, optional FOX is a V. good idea. SKS fenders come default.

How much does the bike weigh?
Is the motor user-programmable?
Fully loaded with 1300Whr battery, racks, Ti frame, fenders, Body float et al ~ 56lbs. I will have the exact numbers in 2 weeks and will update you/this thread.
Yes, the motor is user programmable. Our goal is set the tuning such that 95% of the people love it.


it seems to be very durable , 14 gears have a very wide range and I would not think about changing it with something else especially a Nuvinci which is cvt (its average efficiency seems to be around %83 which in my opinion is quite low) not to mention its range is quite limited.
Fully agree with you, Johnny. I am not a fan of Nuvinci either and this bike deserves Rohloff.
We will seriously think of offering SRAM Eagle instead of Nuvinci.
 

Alaskan

Well-Known Member
#17
I would prefer the 11 speed Diore XT 8000 over the Sram 12 put the 11-16 tooth cassette on it. If you wanted to go any fancier the DI2 electronic shifter is pretty cool but compared to the Rohloff it is sort of lipstick on a pig as it still has that greasy chain to clean, maintain and replace.
 

Ravi Kempaiah

Well-Known Member
#18
Great looking bike. I would like it even better if a spare battery could be mounted in the main triangle. Hopefully, the battery can be switched on the go.
Thanks Mark.
Right now, friend is designing a 3D-printed box that will go in the front triangle and it looks elegant (like the AUDI ebike battery), houses a large battery 52V, 25Ah for a whopping 1250Whr capacity. One could always use the stock 870whr (not 850!) battery for weight and cost savings. The stock battery can be switched on the go, comes with Cycle satiator charger as standard.

The first batch should be out in 2-3 weeks and I will post the pics here.

This is looking promising, Ravi. Is there a reason why not go for the "Rohloff" E14 instead of the manual mode?
E-14 is not developed for non-Bosch motors. Also, E-14 has some kinks that need to be ironed out before it can be paired with the reputation that these hubs have garnered over the years.
Manual shifter has been refined over the last 15 years and it works pretty good and any service/maintenance can be done by a reasonably proficient mechanic. Doesn't need any extra electronics for diagnostics. One less headache from service perspective.

I would prefer the 11 speed Diore XT 8000 over the Sram 12 put the 11-16 tooth cassette on it. If you wanted to go any fancier the DI2 electronic shifter is pretty cool but compared to the Rohloff it is sort of lipstick on a pig as it still has that greasy chain to clean, maintain and replace.
With a 750W motor, 10-12 gears are a complete overkill. Even Rohloff is a overkill (originally designed for pedal bikes).
So, we finally decided to spec SRAM EX1 E-bike specific cassette. it's only 8 speeds but wide range of gears carved out of a single block of metal and it's really strong and lasts significantly longer than regular cassettes.

 

Feliz

Well-Known Member
#20
You'll only be allowed to produce the bike if it's available in Canada, I've already spoken to the authorities. I second SRAM kit, it's superior to the competition in my opinion. Nice bike.