Surge and Ampere

#1
Awaiting my Surge and Ampere! My wife and I are really excited about these bikes and learning their capabilities. We'll be especially interested in experimenting with the range of the batteries as we plan on doing some longer rides.

A friendly shout out to EBR for all the video bike reviews and education needed to invest in a project like this!
 

Ann M.

Administrator
#3
Thanks to both @Don Payne & @Jay Rendeiro ! for the kind words. Let us know a bit about where you ride, send a pic or 2 with your bikes and give the community some real world experience with these new bikes.
Jay, remember that you don't need to ride the bike to empty to charge it; glad it's a good commuter for you.
 
#4
I almost decided to purchase a Shocke bike, however due to the inability to test drive one in person I opted not to do so. Their price point seems to be on part with the price conscious individual, but the inability to fully test the bike out leaves one clueless. The company has an awesome customer service team, they respond to just about every question you send them in a matter or minutes, well atleast that was my own personal experience. Also, having a 350 watt motor was another huge factor for me. I'm sure some may like that but I prefer a more powerful motor. Overall I think that the company is heading in the right direction... Curious, how are you liking the bike thus far?
 
#5
This is a solid bike and a comfortable ride. The first charge I was overusing the throttle and got about 70 miles for 360watt charge. This last charge was about 210 miles for 350 watt charge with no throttle use. I pay about 8 cents per KwH, so figure it out. I pick up my groceries using this bike. I bought a basket that fits on the rear assembly and with some pedal assist I'm loving the ride. Down side is there is no schematic available. My crank started squealing and squirted some oil onto it and it went away. I'm thinking not enough grease was packed in and the bearings were dry. Emailed customer service and Frank Lo asked me for photo. Come on now! Just send me a schematic and list of tools and I'll figure it out. It's a bicycle!! A rider should be able to maintain his own bike!
 
#6
With a 350 watt motor and a 36 volt battery you were able to get 70 miles?? Not sure if the battery is a 36 volt but that's awesome. How are you liking the bike? Share your pros/cons... Thanks!
 
#7
I almost decided to purchase a Shocke bike, however due to the inability to test drive one in person I opted not to do so. Their price point seems to be on part with the price conscious individual, but the inability to fully test the bike out leaves one clueless. The company has an awesome customer service team, they respond to just about every question you send them in a matter or minutes, well atleast that was my own personal experience. Also, having a 350 watt motor was another huge factor for me. I'm sure some may like that but I prefer a more powerful motor. Overall I think that the company is heading in the right direction... Curious, how are you liking the bike thus far?
If you still wish to test ride a Shocke e-bike, by mid to late January, I'll have one of each of their models at my Store which covers the Chicagoland metro area. Best Regards - Mike @ www.MikesE-Bikes.com
 
#9
Thanks Mike, however I want to stay away from Chinese made motor systems for now~
Hi there chgofirefighter - I'm curious why you say you want to stay away from 'Chinese made motor systems for now' ? Given that 95% of all motors on the large population of ebike manufacturers are made in China, that sentiment which is likely from years of perceived poor quality of chinese goods, is terribly misplaced in this market. Nearly 98% of all the components in fact on e-bikes come from Asia, since manufacturing of components anywhere else has largely been gutted over the past 3 decades, and given that more than 200 million ebikes have been sold and made in China, the motor technology you refer to is well proven. The only other possible make of motor that is not Chinese that is on the market, that would be possibly worth considering is Bosch, but even parts in that motor come from China as well, and its not a proven design yet (just a few years and not more than few thousand bikes), and doesn't have nearly as many years as other Chinese designs. Also, the OEM is paying 2 to 3 times the cost to put a high enough quality middrive vs a hub drive on their ebike to be reliable for more than just a few seasons, so if you are considering staying away from Chinese made, I hope you have the budget for a $3000 to $4000 ebike, bc you won't find a Bosch on an ebike that sells for much less than that. Given the high cost of the Bosch to any ebike manufacturer, they are likely to put equally higher cost other components with that motor on the entire e-bike. (higher cost doesn't always mean better quality either). For what its worth, I'm a degreed mechanical engineer, with experience working at numerous manufacturers such as Ingersoll-Rand, and GE, along with having rebuilt cars at the age of 16, and many years of working with equipment, motors, and energy technology such as high speed turbines and compressors. Motors of these designs on these ebikes are mostly hub motors, and the size and power are pretty much a commodity these days, and their reliability is such that they will give you years of service on that ebike, such that you are likely to either get bored with the ebike style, or wish to upgrade, before you need to replace the motor itself. And if you do, the motor replacement is less costly than the battery. More important to the ebike functionality is the gearing, controller electronics, and everything else that surrounds the motor in the drive train. As far as the makes of ebikes go, you will be better off looking for a brand where you are not paying such high mark up for their name and their top heavy marketing and distribution model (i.e. Pedego, Stromer, Haibike, EasyMotion, Trek) as the components they use are pretty much the same as other not as well known names, with similar levels of quality. As an ebike only dealer, I have tested over 30 brands, and analyzed the components, frame design and so on, and also understand what the buy prices are to dealers, and each brand's distribution model, and have found you can get the same ebike in terms of components and overall quality for 40 to 50% less if you do your homework. I have taken ebike motors apart, controllers apart, battery casings, and the reliability is mostly going to come down to the components in the drive train. Everything else on the bike is a proven commodity that's largely 50 to 100 years old, with very little innovation since the time regular bikes were first made. That all said, I would stay away from the ebikes that are selling for less than $800-$1000 new, because an OEM can't build them that cheaply, and also have a profit for himself, and a distribution profit that is going to be capable enough to do service. As far as components, I would look for a quality derailleur, such as at least 3 levels up on the Shimano brand (an Altus or higher, maybe even Deore but not critical), Avid or BB disc brakes, Samsung or Panasonic batteries (which generally include a reliable controller and battery management system integrated into the housing), Tektro hydraulic brake levers, or equivalent, higher quality adjustable stem, higher quality seat such as Serfas, Kenda brand tires or equivalent. From there, everything else on the ebike has zero to do with comfortably getting you from point a to b, reliably and cost effectively. As far as holding off on anything, I would highly suggest folks staying away from mid-drives for 3 to 5 years, and see which design proves itself out and stays in business. They are a much more complicated animal, and these ebike manufacturers are trending that way to increase profits, while not necessarily doing anything else for the benefit of the rider. Its VERY very hard to build a mid drive, that will stay as reliable as a hub drive, be as responsive, and do so cost effectively. Shimano is one of several examples, who tried to do a mid drive 6 to 7 years ago, and failed miserably. Now they are trying again with the STEPs. They'll likely fail again, because unless they convince enough OEMs to adopt their drive to give them sales of 500,000 to 1,000,000 units a year, they wont be able to get their costs down low enough, and keep reliability high, nor recoup their original design R&D to keep the product on the market. That is the same problem all of these other Ebike OEM's have in introducing mid drives, especially when the Chinese market is mature and dominates number of units sold, and the US market is only about 200,000 sold ebikes per year where innovation may be appealing to the ebike consumer, but the numbers bought aren't there yet to support the innovation. It'll be at least 10 years before number of units sold in US, can support any real innovation that might be adopted, so these mid drive guys are going to be lucky to survive. They will also have to pay heavily for marketing them over the hub drive. These ebikes have been in place in Europe for 10 to 15 years longer than here in the US, so that market is much more mature, and they are simply used to effective hub drives and have found them to be proven and reliable. Since I have worked at a number of equipment manufacturers, I know you can't just have a quality product, but you have to keep numbers high, have a sustainable distribution model, and rapid market penetration, or your 'great idea' will be beaten every time, by those who can sell in quantities into a commodity market (bikes), and already possess large quantity manufacturing resources, and larger market penetration. Innovation is interesting in this market, but very few will withstand the test of time. (i.e. 10 years from now, more than half these Ebike OEMS will no longer be in business - likely firms like BionX, BESV, and many others due to their business models wont be around). So unless you want to spend $3000 to $4000 for an ebike, and I cannot fathom why anyone would want to spend that much, I'm not sure I would understand the sentiment behind not wanting Chinese made, unless its just a prejudice sort of thing.
 
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#10
Hi there chgofirefighter - I'm curious why you say you want to stay away from 'Chinese made motor systems for now' ? Given that 95% of all motors on the large population of ebike manufacturers are made in China, that sentiment which is likely from years of perceived poor quality of chinese goods, is terribly misplaced in this market. Nearly 98% of all the components in fact on e-bikes come from Asia, since manufacturing of components anywhere else has largely been gutted over the past 3 decades, and given that more than 200 million ebikes have been sold and made in China, the motor technology you refer to is well proven. The only other possible make of motor that is not Chinese that is on the market, that would be possibly worth considering is Bosch, but even parts in that motor come from China as well, and its not a proven design yet (just a few years and not more than few thousand bikes), and doesn't have nearly as many years as other Chinese designs. Also, the OEM is paying 2 to 3 times the cost to put a high enough quality middrive vs a hub drive on their ebike to be reliable for more than just a few seasons, so if you are considering staying away from Chinese made, I hope you have the budget for a $3000 to $4000 ebike, bc you won't find a Bosch on an ebike that sells for much less than that. Given the high cost of the Bosch to any ebike manufacturer, they are likely to put equally higher cost other components with that motor on the entire e-bike. (higher cost doesn't always mean better quality either). For what its worth, I'm a degreed mechanical engineer, with experience working at numerous manufacturers such as Ingersoll-Rand, and GE, along with having rebuilt cars at the age of 16, and many years of working with equipment, motors, and energy technology such as high speed turbines and compressors. Motors of these designs on these ebikes are mostly hub motors, and the size and power are pretty much a commodity these days, and their reliability is such that they will give you years of service on that ebike, such that you are likely to either get bored with the ebike style, or wish to upgrade, before you need to replace the motor itself. And if you do, the motor replacement is less costly than the battery. More important to the ebike functionality is the gearing, controller electronics, and everything else that surrounds the motor in the drive train. As far as the makes of ebikes go, you will be better off looking for a brand where you are not paying such high mark up for their name and their top heavy marketing and distribution model (i.e. Pedego, Stromer, Haibike, EasyMotion, Trek) as the components they use are pretty much the same as other not as well known names, with similar levels of quality. As an ebike only dealer, I have tested over 30 brands, and analyzed the components, frame design and so on, and also understand what the buy prices are to dealers, and each brand's distribution model, and have found you can get the same ebike in terms of components and overall quality for 40 to 50% less if you do your homework. I have taken ebike motors apart, controllers apart, battery casings, and the reliability is mostly going to come down to the components in the drive train. Everything else on the bike is a proven commodity that's largely 50 to 100 years old, with very little innovation since the time regular bikes were first made. That all said, I would stay away from the ebikes that are selling for less than $800-$1000 new, because an OEM can't build them that cheaply, and also have a profit for himself, and a distribution profit that is going to be capable enough to do service. As far as components, I would look for a quality derailleur, such as at least 3 levels up on the Shimano brand (an Altus or higher, maybe even Deore but not critical), Avid or BB disc brakes, Samsung or Panasonic batteries (which generally include a reliable controller and battery management system integrated into the housing), Tektro hydraulic brake levers, or equivalent, higher quality adjustable stem, higher quality seat such as Serfas, Kenda brand tires or equivalent. From there, everything else on the ebike has zero to do with comfortably getting you from point a to b, reliably and cost effectively. As far as holding off on anything, I would highly suggest folks staying away from mid-drives for 3 to 5 years, and see which design proves itself out and stays in business. They are a much more complicated animal, and these ebike manufacturers are trending that way to increase profits, while not necessarily doing anything else for the benefit of the rider. Its VERY very hard to build a mid drive, that will stay as reliable as a hub drive, be as responsive, and do so cost effectively. Shimano is one of several examples, who tried to do a mid drive 6 to 7 years ago, and failed miserably. Now they are trying again with the STEPs. They'll likely fail again, because unless they convince enough OEMs to adopt their drive to give them sales of 500,000 to 1,000,000 units a year, they wont be able to get their costs down low enough, and keep reliability high, nor recoup their original design R&D to keep the product on the market. That is the same problem all of these other Ebike OEM's have in introducing mid drives, especially when the Chinese market is mature and dominates number of units sold, and the US market is only about 200,000 sold ebikes per year where innovation may be appealing to the ebike consumer, but the numbers bought aren't there yet to support the innovation. It'll be at least 10 years before number of units sold in US, can support any real innovation that might be adopted, so these mid drive guys are going to be lucky to survive. They will also have to pay heavily for marketing them over the hub drive. These ebikes have been in place in Europe for 10 to 15 years longer than here in the US, so that market is much more mature, and they are simply used to effective hub drives and have found them to be proven and reliable. Since I have worked at a number of equipment manufacturers, I know you can't just have a quality product, but you have to keep numbers high, have a sustainable distribution model, and rapid market penetration, or your 'great idea' will be beaten every time, by those who can sell in quantities into a commodity market (bikes), and already possess large quantity manufacturing resources, and larger market penetration. Innovation is interesting in this market, but very few will withstand the test of time. (i.e. 10 years from now, more than half these Ebike OEMS will no longer be in business - likely firms like BionX, BESV, and many others due to their business models wont be around). So unless you want to spend $3000 to $4000 for an ebike, and I cannot fathom why anyone would want to spend that much, I'm not sure I would understand the sentiment behind not wanting Chinese made, unless its just a prejudice sort of thing.

Hi Mike, I currently own a Stromer ST2 which I love and yes its not the most friendly budget ebike on the market but its a quality made ebike. Now I've been on the market for something more affordable for my fiance to enjoy without breaking the bank because I did break the bank with the Stromer. Also Mike, the super long post is hard to read a bit. Sure that Asia, China etc make good things, not saying that they don't but IMO I prefer either a Bosch system, sure that marketing works but quality also speaks for itself. I like the smoothness, easy shifting, etc of my Stromer, I tested a bunch of ebikes prior to making a decision to purchase the ST2, I visited tons of places and I just couldn't find a motor that work as smooth and efficient as the ST2 but then again this is my personal opinion. I am looking into a Haibike as a second option, but I'm doing my homework as to where to spend my hard earned money on a ebike, but I totally understand where you coming from Mike. You're not too far Chicago, so one day I may take a ride and visit your store to discuss this topic more in person~ Thanks
 
#11
Stromer ST2 is certainly a nice ebike. I'd consider carrying Stromer if I lived in California or Florida, were my clients would have many warm months throughout the year to take advantage of such a purchase. I've owned Audi's, and the Stromer is like an 'Audi' of e-bikes. Its just that I've found the customer base here in Chicago isn't in sufficient numbers yet in the income strata, and willing to spend that kind of money for just a few months of e-bike enjoyment. I do carry several brands that your fiance may want to try out, that she will likely find to be well suited for her, that will be less than half, or maybe even a third of what an ST2 would cost, and be of very high quality. (dont know what you paid, but Normally I see new 2016 ST2's priced between $5800 and $6900 across the US, or even $9999 here in Chicago at Kozy's for 2017 ST2) There's enough mark up in it, where some dealers will be inclined to heavily discount a demo after they have had one sitting for a year or longer in their store. Its fairly heavy too weighing in at more than 63 lbs. I try to carry only brands and models that are less than 53 lbs, especially for the female clients I get.
 
#12
Hi Mike,

I purchased the stromer below the 5k mark, here in Chicago I would of paid $7000 but I traveled outside the state for such a great deal~ Thanks again Mike
 
#13
It’s been 2 years since I’ve posted here, but I’d like to know if anyone else has an issue with broken spokes on the rear wheel? I’ve had to replace the stock spokes with larger dia. Spokes. However, since the switch I’ve managed to break one. I attribute the problem to the spokes’ inability to manage the increase in torque from the rear wheel motor.
 

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