Torque-sensing BBS-HD Bike

Ravi Kempaiah

Well-Known Member
Bafang has released their new BBS-HD with a torque sensor for OEMs only. Now, that's a drive I would love to get my hands on. Cadence sensor simply doesn't match against a well tuned torque sensor.

http://www.szbaf.com/en/drive-systems/drive-system/max/max-fortis.html

I am meeting with a well respected bike factory personnel tomorrow at Interbike. It would be fun to design a bike that is unique and very capable. So, this will be one of the discussion points. Not sure, if it truly materializes but at least I can get the ball rolling. I am sure companies like Juiced, Karmic, Flux can do it quicker given their association w/ these vendors.

Specs I have in mind:

  1. Torque sensing BBS-HD 750W, 160Nm operating at 52V or 48V.

  2. 48V, 18Ah pack that blends into the frame without any weight penalty.

  3. Tektro Dorado brakes 203mm.

  4. RockShox Reba forks, Supermoto-X tires.

  5. Hardtail w/ racks, fenders and lights. Total weight ~50lbs

  6. Aimed at a price point of $2.7K
 

George S.

Well-Known Member
Nice specs:

http://www.szbaf.com/en/components/component/motor/mm-g33250cb.html


Now I am confused. The Bafang page lists this drive as a subset of the Max drive, and it doesn't look like a bolt on, bottom bracket type drive, at all. I mention this only because the upgrade of the BBS series, the 02 and HD, to a TS is kind of the most wanted addition. The rated power is 1000 watts.

Don't get me wrong, but I'm assuming this is not a DIY drive (like the HD) and that it is basically for someone like Roshan who is a manufacturer, but not in the Haibike league? It's for someone who can contract for frames that match the specs.

Bafang says, in the listing, it is 'off-road'. This may be getting a little old. The problem is that the people making high power 'off-road' bikes are moving to the 3,000 watt mid-drive that Luna sells, high power hubs, and the stuff Karl Gesslein writes about.

So why isn't Bafang puting torque sensors in their DIY drives? Can they put it in their hub drives, or the BBS drives?
 

Jolly

Member
that is a dream come true mid drive. hope Roshan can get his hands on some of them to build bike around that.
 

grench

Well-Known Member
Bafang has released their new BBS-HD with a torque sensor for OEMs only. Now, that's a drive I would love to get my hands on. Cadence sensor simply doesn't match against a well tuned torque sensor.

http://www.szbaf.com/en/drive-systems/drive-system/max/max-fortis.html

I am meeting with a well respected bike factory personnel tomorrow at Interbike. It would be fun to design a bike that is unique and very capable. So, this will be one of the discussion points. Not sure, if it truly materializes but at least I can get the ball rolling. I am sure companies like Juiced, Karmic, Flux can do it quicker given their association w/ these vendors.

Specs I have in mind:

  1. Torque sensing BBS-HD 750W, 160Nm operating at 52V or 48V.

  2. 48V, 18Ah pack that blends into the frame without any weight penalty.

  3. Tektro Dorado brakes 203mm.

  4. RockShox Reba forks, Supermoto-X tires.

  5. Hardtail w/ racks, fenders and lights. Total weight ~50lbs

  6. Aimed at a price point of $2.7K
27.5" super motto's
 

Ravi Kempaiah

Well-Known Member
I got to ride the bike and snapped a chain.
Too powerful at 1000W. The programming wasn't set right and it was very torquey off the line.

BBS-HD Torque sensor 1.JPG BBS-HD Torque sensor.JPG

We are in the process of building a bike that is well suited for $1400 price point. Something with a Bafang Max mid-drive, hydraulic brakes, 400Whr battery. Aiming for 900 bikes delivery in 2017.
 

Jolly

Member
I got to ride the bike and snapped a chain.
Too powerful at 1000W. The programming wasn't set right and it was very torquey off the line.

View attachment 10593 View attachment 10595

We are in the process of building a bike that is well suited for $1400 price point. Something with a Bafang Max mid-drive, hydraulic brakes, 400Whr battery. Aiming for 900 bikes delivery in 2017.
Can the motor be dial down to maybe 500w or 750w via the control to give it more of smoother ride? Did you notice when the torque kicked in? This motor has peak my interest.
 

Ravi Kempaiah

Well-Known Member
Can the motor be dial down to maybe 500w or 750w via the control to give it more of smoother ride? Did you notice when the torque kicked in? This motor has peak my interest.
Yes, it can be dialed down to 750W.
I felt the drive wasn't as smooth Bosch or Brose. Although the torque kicked in better than the BBS-HD, it did not cutoff exactly when I stopped pedaling and it was a little harsh on the cassettes.
I could tell you that it was quite powerful and with a bit more tuning at the firmware level, it could be made into a powerhouse of an E-bike engine.
The first iteration is always going to be quite buggy. I hope by mid-2017, all the kinks would be ironed out.
 

Ann M.

Well-Known Member
Curious, I don't see anything in that link that indicates that this is the torque sensing motor; does look like a geared motor which would be different. Did see a torque sensing motor design by Bafang for e-RAD at Interbike and this will be available in 2017 as a kit.
 

Ravi Kempaiah

Well-Known Member
Curious, I don't see anything in that link that indicates that this is the torque sensing motor; does look like a geared motor which would be different. Did see a torque sensing motor design by Bafang for e-RAD at Interbike and this will be available in 2017 as a kit.
BBSHD Torque sensor - 1.JPG
BBS-HD Torque sensor 2.JPG
 

Bike_On

Well-Known Member
Bafang has released their new BBS-HD with a torque sensor for OEMs only. Now, that's a drive I would love to get my hands on. Cadence sensor simply doesn't match against a well tuned torque sensor.

http://www.szbaf.com/en/drive-systems/drive-system/max/max-fortis.html

I am meeting with a well respected bike factory personnel tomorrow at Interbike. It would be fun to design a bike that is unique and very capable. So, this will be one of the discussion points. Not sure, if it truly materializes but at least I can get the ball rolling. I am sure companies like Juiced, Karmic, Flux can do it quicker given their association w/ these vendors.

Specs I have in mind:

  1. Torque sensing BBS-HD 750W, 160Nm operating at 52V or 48V.

  2. 48V, 18Ah pack that blends into the frame without any weight penalty.

  3. Tektro Dorado brakes 203mm.

  4. RockShox Reba forks, Supermoto-X tires.

  5. Hardtail w/ racks, fenders and lights. Total weight ~50lbs

  6. Aimed at a price point of $2.7K
Sounds like a fun build Ravi. Hi quality parts, high power motor, large battery > kind of like an Optibike but with PAS., and costs much less.

That 2.7k must be cost for parts only?
 

dandam

New Member
Bafang has released their new BBS-HD with a torque sensor for OEMs only. Now, that's a drive I would love to get my hands on. Cadence sensor simply doesn't match against a well tuned torque sensor.

http://www.szbaf.com/en/drive-systems/drive-system/max/max-fortis.html

I am meeting with a well respected bike factory personnel tomorrow at Interbike. It would be fun to design a bike that is unique and very capable. So, this will be one of the discussion points. Not sure, if it truly materializes but at least I can get the ball rolling. I am sure companies like Juiced, Karmic, Flux can do it quicker given their association w/ these vendors.

Specs I have in mind:

  1. Torque sensing BBS-HD 750W, 160Nm operating at 52V or 48V.

  2. 48V, 18Ah pack that blends into the frame without any weight penalty.

  3. Tektro Dorado brakes 203mm.

  4. RockShox Reba forks, Supermoto-X tires.

  5. Hardtail w/ racks, fenders and lights. Total weight ~50lbs

  6. Aimed at a price point of $2.7K
This is my dream bike. I've been looking for this setup for a while. At this point we can get everything but a torque-sensing mid-drive with decent power. Hoping to buy this bike in Spring of 2017 (probably very optimistic I guess).
 

Ravi Kempaiah

Well-Known Member
Has this torque sensing BaFang motor materialized yet?

@Ravi Kempaiah , have you found the bike you were looking for in 2017 yet?

Best
Hi Greg,

We started to work on a project with Tora @Juiced Bikes. He spends a lot of time in factories in Asia and knows whole lot about the technical aspects of designing.
There has been some delay to get the product materialize for various reasons but we will make it happen.
To answer your question, I tested the Torque sensing Bafang motor and it had a lot of power to it but it lacked the finesse.

I will update this thread once the prototype is complete.
 

fredi

Member
I wonder if this is the motor in the new Evelo Delta, "750W Bafang Custom Mid-drive Brushless Motor, 48V." The motor certainly doesn't look like the MM G320.750.
 

roshan

Active Member
Nice specs:

http://www.szbaf.com/en/components/component/motor/mm-g33250cb.html


Now I am confused. The Bafang page lists this drive as a subset of the Max drive, and it doesn't look like a bolt on, bottom bracket type drive, at all. I mention this only because the upgrade of the BBS series, the 02 and HD, to a TS is kind of the most wanted addition. The rated power is 1000 watts.

Don't get me wrong, but I'm assuming this is not a DIY drive (like the HD) and that it is basically for someone like Roshan who is a manufacturer, but not in the Haibike league? It's for someone who can contract for frames that match the specs.

Bafang says, in the listing, it is 'off-road'. This may be getting a little old. The problem is that the people making high power 'off-road' bikes are moving to the 3,000 watt mid-drive that Luna sells, high power hubs, and the stuff Karl Gesslein writes about.

So why isn't Bafang puting torque sensors in their DIY drives? Can they put it in their hub drives, or the BBS drives?
Already did! Check it out here: https://www.biktrix.com/collections/bikes/products/juggernaut-mx?variant=43607281429
 

roshan

Active Member
Yes, it can be dialed down to 750W.
I felt the drive wasn't as smooth Bosch or Brose. Although the torque kicked in better than the BBS-HD, it did not cutoff exactly when I stopped pedaling and it was a little harsh on the cassettes.
I could tell you that it was quite powerful and with a bit more tuning at the firmware level, it could be made into a powerhouse of an E-bike engine.
The first iteration is always going to be quite buggy. I hope by mid-2017, all the kinks would be ironed out.

That Ultra is super smooth. Anyone who says it's harsh have only ridden an earlier version. We have these on production bikes and here's a customer's review:
https://electricbikereview.com/forum/threads/first-impressions-juggernaut-ultra.14661/
 

George S.

Well-Known Member
The video is pretty convincing. I've teased Mikey at Blue Monkey about not believing in Bafang, not believing in 'light manufacturers' of ebikes, and not believing in higher power and TS plus throttle for MD's. Well, here it is, maybe a year late, but looks like the whole package. (I like Mikey. He's a good guy!)

I guess one thing to resolve is the power. In Utah the bikes are limited to 750 watts, but that's output. I assume it takes around 1000 watts from the battery to make that 750 watts output, but I don't really know how any of this would work, like the enforcement.

Nice bike.