VOMO electric scooter on Indiegogo

Discussion in 'Help Choosing an Ebike' started by platbr, Aug 14, 2015.

  1. platbr

    platbr New Member

    I suppose there are new scooters every day, but this one caught my eye. The Vomo on Indiegogo (http://igg.me/at/vomo/x/11756179) either shares a lot of parts with the EcoReco or is a prototype built from an EcoReco. So many features in common. Either way, it looks pretty good. I'd been looking at the EcoReco and thinking "it needs inflatable tires and a single disc brake" and then, here it is.

    No suspension, but the inflatable tubeless tires strike me as a better option. No front brake, which is fine by me. Rear disc is a great option. They claim to be using Samsung Li-Ion batteries which, if true, will be great.

    The IndieGogo price seems very reasonable at $349 for the 8.8a battery, or $399 for the 11.6a battery. Thoughts? For me, it looks good enough to take the risk, so I signed up as a backer for the 11.6a scooter. The IndieGogo pricing is good through 8/16.

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  3. Steve2014

    Steve2014 New Member

    I have a thought on this. And my thought is, "Another Indiegogo scam!"

    I was also tempted, but after doing some digging a few things came to mind:

    1. I've crunched the numbers, and I don't see ANY way they can get these scooters to people for the too-good-to-be-true price of $349 without losing money. The battery, controller and motor alone, even in quantity, would cost at least $250. Then they still have to pay for the frame, tires, wheels, etc. Oh, and all those parts need to be assembled and tested. That cost money. Then there are import/export taxes and fees. And all the other numerous costs associated with running a business and bringing a product to market. And it's clearly noticeable that the anonymous creator of this campaign (more on that in a second) spent a lot of money for paid-placement advertisements. Yet, they're selling these for $349??? As my grandmother used to say, "I was born in the morning, but not yesterday morning". These numbers don't add up. At all.

    2. There is absolutely no name associated with the Veetron Vomo scooter. Just an anonymous email address. Likewise, the Veetron website was registered with privacy protection. In fact I spent over an hour searching everywhere, and there is simply no name associated with this campaign or this company. Nor are there any names of the alleged "team members". Whoever is running the entity known as Veetron very clearly doesn't want you to know who he is. Now why would that be? I can think of a pretty good reason...

    3. When I emailed Veetron several weeks ago asking for some company information, and told them I would contribute IF I could put a name and address to the company, I never received a reply. Apparently this person would rather remain anonymous than get $349 from me. Strange, that.

    4. If you go look at all of Veetron's Indiegogo updates, you'll notice in all of them that he's very much in a hurry to get peoples' shipping money. When you read those comments within the context of what I'm writing here, tell me if you don't think his hurry sounds a little suspicious.

    5. Veetron extended the campaign several times, always with a "We're such good guys, we just want more people to get in on this great deal!" schtick. I wasn't buying it then, and I'm not buying it now.

    6. As of today, I just saw the first "I'm not getting any email replies from Veetron" comments. Just as I predicted would happen a few weeks ago on another forum. Veetron was supposed to deliver these scooters this month. But I suspect the REAL plan all along was to keep this campaign going for as long as possible, then disappear with the money. About a quarter million dollars at this point. Not bad for a few months worth of work. I suppose you could complain, but to who? You don't even know who you bought this alleged scooter from! And if you think Indiegogo cares, you're sorely mistaken. They got their 10% cut, and have filled their website with NUMEROUS disclaimers about how they aren't liable if you get ripped off. As Indiegogo says, "You are responsible for doing any and all due diligence on any campaign to which you contribute." They also state that in the event a product is not delivered, the gripe is solely between you and the campaign creator.

    I did contact Indiegogo about a month ago and told them this campaign had several earmarks of a classic scam. Of course, I only got a form email reply telling me how truly dedicated they are to Indiegogo's integrity, and they would "look into it". The translation of their email? "We really don't care. Caveat Emptor, sucka!"

    I very much hope I'm wrong on all of this. I truly and sincerely do! After all, I would love to have one of these scooters. It'd be a great deal even at the listed $599 MSRP. But I suspect a lot of people are going to learn the hard way that when you contribute to an Indiegogo campaign, you HAVE to do some research on who you're dealing with. And if you can't even determine who you're dealing with, well, that's what's known as "a clue". This campaign has all the earmarks of a scam, but apparently a couple hundred people didn't stop for ten minutes and ask some simple questions that would have had them questioning the wisdom of contributing to this campaign.

    If it turns out I'm correct, and if it's any consolation to anyone, I saved the email reply I got from Indiegogo a month ago. If someone wants to sue Indiegogo, they won't be able to say "Gee, we had no idea this might be a scam. Otherwise we would have looked into it." Nah, I flat-out warned them this looked like a scam. If it is, and if they didn't do anything, all the disclaimers in the world don't protect them. At least in the United States, as a matter of public policy you can't disclaim willful negligence. And frankly, I think Indiegogo needs to be sued a few times so that they start better policing the numerous scammers that use their platform. Kickstarter has measures in place to prevent such scamming. Indiegogo doesn't. Which is why I now avoid Indiegogo. LOTS of scams on that site.

    I hope it works out for you platbr.
  4. platbr

    platbr New Member

    Hey Steve,

    You make 6 really great points, which I can't argue with. The whole campaign seemed a little suspicious to me, as well . . . although I did search and found no indications or suggestions it was a scam (apart from your points above). What did strike me was that they had incorporated a lot of the thoughts and fixes I had regarding other scooters (e.g., EcoReco) into the Vomo. Price aside, it seems like a very good design. It would be a shame if the whole thing turns out to be a scam, because the design appears to be the perfect blend of function and minimalist.

    I will agree that each of the points you make above does make it somewhat suspect. However, I paid with American Express and they've never failed me when there was a question of fraud. If we don't see Vomo scooters shipping out with ~45 days of my payment I will file a chargeback and [hopefully] get my money back. We'll see... On the other hand, looking carefully at the photos of racks of scooter frames, it does appear as though there is at least some form of manufacturing going on. [Edit: the other photos of the various parts and pieces also make me feel much more comfortable that this may be going forward as hoped.]

    According to a Veetron press release (http://www.pr.com/press-release/624638) the name and address of its contact is a "John Murphy, +85294548211"
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2015
  5. Goal

    Goal New Member

    Hello together,

    I also contributed to the VOMO campaign. I also don't know if this is really real! My biggest worry is, that you don't find anything else about VEETRON but they are present on all social platforms whole the internet.

    I really hope, that this campaign is not scam. After I read the post from Steve above, I think about myself: What do you do? One thing I had read in the story: "Delivery of rewards/perks are subject to best efforts and not guaranteed."

    So, i hope we all get a VOMO. The updates with pictures from production let me hope. What I also find good is this: "Can I get a refund? We understand that things happen, we will do everything we can to be fair and just. Indiegogo stipulates in their Terms that all contributions are non-refundable, but upon successful completion of our campaign we work one-on-one with backers to determine appropriate refunds if applicable."
    The contact to "John" was always good. It's only a little bit curious, that there are no pictures and information of VEETRON. Phew!

    P.S.: I'm not from an english speaking country, hope you understand me anyway :D
  6. platbr

    platbr New Member

    I'm never sure of anything, but the recent updates showing piles of parts very specific to these scooters and the Vomo design do have me believing this is likely the real deal. I guess we'll see...
  7. jazz

    jazz Active Member

    Seems ok and since they are hong kong based, they can prob get mass quantities of these made much cheaper. However, the also the fact they are hong kong based is enough of a reason for me to say no to this.
  8. Steve2014

    Steve2014 New Member

    Hi platbr,

    I agree, the VOMO does look like the perfect scooter. They took the minor imperfections of the Ecoreco and solved for most of them. It does look like a very good design, but I’m still plenty skeptical about the price. I still can’t make the numbers add up to anything where Veetron makes any money on this. Their “too good to be true” price is still my biggest concern. That, and the anonymity of the company. I just don’t understand why a legit company wouldn’t post at least SOME information about who and what they are. That still strikes me as bizarre.

    As for Amex, you’re correct that they tend to be very good about refunding on fraud. The problem is, with VOMO – and Indeigogo in general – you aren’t technically buying anything, and you aren’t guaranteed to get anything. What you’re really doing is making a contribution, with the HOPE that you get something. Both Indiegogo’s terms of service and VOMO’s campaign explicitly state this. So if it turns out that nothing is shipped, it’s hard to argue to Amex that you didn’t get what you paid for. Because again, you didn’t technically pay for anything. You instead made a contribution with no guarantee of getting a product.

    If nothing ever ships I suppose you could argue with Amex that the whole thing was a fraud, but proving that would be very difficult. Veetron’s owner could simply say “Things didn’t work out like I had planned”, and take off with the money. How is anyone going to actually PROVE that the whole thing was a fraud, without investing massive amounts of time and money? They can’t. And that’s the beauty of scams like this: it’s almost too easy to pull off without fear of any real consequences. This is why, as I said in my first post, it’s important to know who you’re dealing with. That person or company’s reputation is really all you have to go on.

    As for the photos, I have two comments. First, those photos don’t suggest to me that anything is going to be shipping in August. There is still a lot of work to do on those parts. And when/if the scooters do ship, they still have to go through customs both in the origination and destination countries. And that’s after a two-week boat ride. So if these scooters haven’t shipped by now, I doubt anyone will see one until late September at the earliest.

    Second, we are PRESUMING those parts are actually Vomo scooter parts. Really, they could be photos of any of a number of other scooters. The guy behind this could have simply snapped a bunch of photos when he toured the factory, only to strategically post those photos in such a sequence to make it look like progress is being made. You might think, “That seems like an awful lot of work to scam people”. But really it’s not. Especially when you have close to ¼ million dollars at stake. I would like to see photos (that aren’t Photoshopped) of dozens of FINISHED Vomo scooters. It’s now August 25, and to the best of my knowledge nobody has seen anything except for two prototypes.

    Pretty soon people are going to start asking “Where is my scooter” questions. I sorta expect the next Indiegogo update to say something like “We are a little behind schedule on the August scooters, blah blah blah…”. If this is indeed a fraud (and yes, I still think it probably is), the person behind Veetron is going to try to ride this out as long as he can, until one day he just up and disappears. Any updates will be encouraging, but they will all ultimately be part of the larger fraud.

    Honestly, I’m surprised so many people have contributed to the campaign when they have no idea who the person or company is. I wonder if this just didn’t occur to these people, or if they’re simply a lot more trusting than me. I suspect they saw the scooter, thought “I need one of these!”, and didn’t do much due diligence before plunking down their money. That, and they probably believe that Indigogo is safer than it actually is. Unfortunately I think a lot of people are going to learn an expensive lesson here.

    As I wrote above, I very, very much hope I’m wrong about all of this! And I say that sincerely. This is one of those rare occasions where I would LOVE to be proven wrong. It’s a cool scooter, and I would like to buy one myself. Even at $650 it would be a bargain compared to what’s currently on the market. But after adding up all the things that don’t make sense to me, as I did in my first post above, I still have a very hard time believing this campaign is legit. There are too many red flags I can’t look past.
  9. Steve2014

    Steve2014 New Member

    Oh, you also mentioned the press release.

    I'm not sure what to make of that, but I suspect the name is an alias. I know that pr.com absolutely requires a person's name and telephone number. Otherwise they won't publish the press release. But they don't verify the name or number. You could say your name is "Jesus H. Christ" and they'll still publish your press release. "John Murphy" sounds almost comically phony. He might as well have used "John Smith". Moreover, how come he was willing to put "his" name on the pr.com press release, but didn't include it anywhere on his Indiegogo page or the Veetron website? Does that make any sense? To me, that's just another red flag.

    As for the phone number, if you try calling it I suspect either 1.) It won't be a valid number; or 2.) No one will answer; or 3.) Someone will answer, and have no idea who "John Murphy" is. I haven't tried calling it myself, as I have nothing at stake here. But if I had given this guy $350, you can bet I would have tried calling it. Have any of you who contributed tried calling it?

    Oh, and perhaps ironically, "John Murphy" is the name of a character on the TV series "The 100". On that show, Murphy is a criminal who eventually gets thrown out of the community for - among other things - stealing from people. ;)

    P.S. I tried posting on the Indiegogo website, but they won't let you publicly post unless you have made a contribution. One of you who HAS contributed should post and ask, "How come there are no details here about Veetron, where it's located, who owns it, etc.?" It's a very legitimate and reasonable question to ask. I'm curious to see what he says (or if he even responds), or if he tries to delete your question. If he doesn't respond or he deletes it, I think you'll have your answer. In a manner of speaking. And in that case, I would IMMEDIATELY request a refund or attempt a chargeback. I'm a little shocked no one has asked this to-date. Or maybe they have, and he quickly deleted it before anyone else could see it and start thinking "Yeah, now that I think about it, it's strange that there's absolutely no contact or company information here."
  10. Steve2014

    Steve2014 New Member

    From August 25: "I sorta expect the next Indiegogo update to say something like “We are a little behind schedule on the August scooters, blah blah blah…”


    Today, August 28: "By now we hoped to be shipping out but I'm afraid we are currently running about 14 days behind on our schedule. : ("

    14 days from now I suspect there will be another "unanticipated delay", as they ride this out as long as they can. We shall see.
  11. M Roberts 70

    M Roberts 70 New Member

    Hi Steve, You could be right, but from what I've seen on Kickstarter and Indiegogo, a shipping delay is more common than not. It could all be an elaborate scam, but if it is, someone should steal all their ideas because I think they have hit on some of the key issues with the ecoreco that could use improvement. Tires (inflatable), weight, etc.

    The one thing though I keep hearing about ecoreco is they have great customer support. Even if this company is legit, their lack of communication and transparency make me wonder if you'll ever get help from them if your scooter breaks.
  12. Ran Weiss

    Ran Weiss New Member

    I myself got interested in this Vomo. Since September, I see no activity here... Now, in November, is there anything new to report?
  13. M Roberts 70

    M Roberts 70 New Member

    Hi Ran, yes the campaign is delivering the scooters. The campaign is very real. Overall an excellent build and scooter.
  14. Andar

    Andar New Member

    I feel like such a fool. I saw this in July and thought of our daughter who commutes by light rail. It looked perfect for her to get to and from the station and around downtown on errands. So, I 'bought' one for her for Christmas. Needless to say, I have no scooter, she has no Christmas present and while my emails were returned by 'John' at the beginning and as late as Nov 24 when "Good News! your scooter is being shipped!" He gave a UPS tracking number but warned in a previous email, that UPS is slow to update tracking to certain countries. He said the scooter should be here (Northern California) in 7-10 days.
    The tracking number still says 'label generated'. I have emailed him twice since the 24th with no response, THIS IS A SCAM! I fee so stupid not to have investigated the issues listed above. As of now, the UPS tracking states "order processed, ready for pick-up' which just means they printed a label. If anything changes, I will update. Now I am wondering if new member "Robert" is real or maybe he is " John"

    I loved the idea of supporting 'start-ups' and have done one more before reading this. Hopefully it is not a scam too, but I will not be buying from any start up again. Too bad as bad apple has now spoiled the barrow.
  15. M Roberts 70

    M Roberts 70 New Member

    Hi, this isn't a scam and I say this as someone who was also suspicious at the beginning. I live in Canada and the same thing happened to me at the beginning of November. I got a UPS tracking number and then nothing for 3 weeks, no UPS update, no indication if it was even in the country. Then the day before it arrived the UPS tracking was updated and I received it the next day left at my door. If you go to the Indie gogo site it seems lots of other people are saying the same thing happened to them. It is strange because I receive lots of things from UPS and the tracking is generally updated much more frequently. I hope you get it soon.

    Oh and btw I am not John. You can see my posts on the Indie gogo site being just as critical as you are now and I was fairly worried when I first started to read this thread. I think John is Veetron and its a one person show. I have asked repeatedly for information on his team and he indicates that he will share more information but has yet to do so. I think the reason things have been slow is he is managing everything. There is also now a Facebook group. Just search for "VOMO eScooter IG campaign backers" and you can see a lot more discussion there both positive and negative.
  16. Andar

    Andar New Member

    Well 'Robert' I did search Facebook for that group. Guess what? just like the other facebook picure there is nothing comes bak
    "We couldn't find anything for "VOMO eScooter IG campaign backers"
    Looking for people or posts? Try entering a name, location, or different words. I can't understand why it is not removed from Indiegogo. They even sent a survey asking how I felt about the company. Please, anyone save your money! I would love to be wrong.....
  17. M Roberts 70

    M Roberts 70 New Member

    Hi Andar, you clearly don't believe me. In any case I reached out to the community and owner of the group
    Sergio Contreras. No idea why you can't find it, I've had no problem but hopefully they can respond here and help you join.

    Here was his post on Indie go go
    sergio 4 days ago - you only have to scroll back "show more" on the indie go go comments to see it.

    Register your location here http://www.zeemaps.com/view?group=1763764&x=-122.121512&y=47.673988&z=15 and if you have a facebook account join our community https://www.facebook.com/groups/1063668323650857/

    ref: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/vomo-20mph-high-performance-electric-scooter#/comments
  18. M Roberts 70

    M Roberts 70 New Member

    Hi Andar, I would like to revise my sense of this campaign. While I received my scooter, I'm hearing more and more people who have not received them and should have by now. On the Facebook group many are calling their credit card companies and some filing lawsuits in the U.S. Again see above link. The Facebook Group is real and its a good place to talk to others who also haven't received them. Why I received mine and had not trouble, who knows, but I appear to be in the minority.

    JAMES MORITZ New Member

    I was a little concerned until this new shiny scooter showed up. I did the pay first installment and second later before delvier with the larger battery. This schooter is really sweet. Very solid and smooth sliding handlebar, super solid hinge. All around solid metal feel, a little on the heavy and bulky side but its a schooter with a decent range. I would love if it fit in a gym locker but some gyms it does some it doesn't. I went out and got a big cable bike lock that can go through the tire.

    This schooter has five gears which are a nice feature but not always needed. I probably shout shift more but I end up setting it on 4 and that seems to be fine with a good push off speed. Excellent battery wear. I can ride to/from the gym which is a few miles and the first bar hasn't even gone down. I'm socked. I had a Goboard 2000? similar size and the distance was rediculous. I could barely go a few blocks.

    Seems like this schooter is good for a full day of running around New York City on a single charge. So far it was an incredible deal. It does look a little rough around the edges. Meaning they took some common metal parts and pieced it together. Just seeing that this looks a lot like the EcoReco I have a strong feeling this is a secrete beta test of the new EcoReco. The panels, shifting and breaking systems are too similar for them not to be related. I think this was the prototype and we are testing the performance before it goes on with thier brand. So far its an excleent schooter and has exceeded my expectations. Its a functional and practical way to get around NY when it is dry. Sadly it can't handle any moisture. But there are pleanty of nice days to enjoy this great new way to zip around the city and run super fast errands. Until now the bike was the only option this allows you to zip around New York without much effort and its a lot of fun to handle.

    So five stars on this product.
  20. M Roberts 70

    M Roberts 70 New Member

    This Veetron Scooter is positively a SCAM. While I did receive mine incredibly, my sense is this is just a generic scooter you can buy in China with a new branding label on it. The person who runs the scam presented themselves as 'John' but his real name (to our knowledge) is Simon Bright. Indiegogo has shut down the campaign now and some people have been successful in getting refunds from their credit card company. As for 'John' Simon Bright, he has simply disappeared. So Andar and Steve2014, you were both absolutely correct, the scooter campaign was indeed a scam.
  21. platbr

    platbr New Member

    I'm the OP, and I concur with M Roberts 70, this was definitely a scam. A few people got scooters, but as with so many other "new" scooters it turned out to just be a cheap Chinese model. It seems the scammer used the shipping of a few dozen scooters as a way to prolong the scam and get further away with the money. In hindsight, Indiegogo and (to a lesser extent Kickstarter) are a haven for scammers. I have thus far been successful getting my money back, and ended up with an iMax S1+ from the Super Scooter Store. It is an amazing scooter, and even though it was more money, it was definitely worth the wait.