What ever happened to ebikes powered by hydrogen fuel cells?

calvin

Active Member
Two to three years ago, articles concerning fuel cell powered ebikes were in the news for a while. Then the whole subject disappeared. Now another manufacturer is making the attempt to stir this pot again. Eurobike was to be the unveiling of the "Vorradle S3 FC" see this:
http://www.bikebiz.com/news/read/eurobike-to-showcase-first-hydrogen-fuel-cell-e-bike/016782

The claim of a 300 mile range is interesting. But where can you buy hydrogen canisters? Liquid propane canisters are available everywhere. Why not an LP powered fuel cell instead? See this:http://www.technologyreview.com/news/518516/an-inexpensive-fuel-cell-generator/
 

Shea N Encinitas

Active Member
We are lucky to have some energy density specialist in our midst. What I'm wondering is the 'Saltwater Supercar' (google that) something that scales to ebike territory. Here is a brief extract:

It is a specially compounded salt water that's loaded with way more electrolytes than your Gatorade. Essentially, they take one highly-charged solution and one low-charged, and simultaneously pump them past opposite sides of a membrane to generate electricity, which is then stored in capacitors until it's needed.

With over 2000 NM at each wheel it certainly has the current flowing! Wonder what the super caps weigh.. -S
 

Paul E.

Active Member
We are lucky to have some energy density specialist in our midst. What I'm wondering is the 'Saltwater Supercar' (google that) something that scales to ebike territory.
That's the "Quant", right? Sorry, it's just a scam to fleece stupid investors. The telltale sign is that they claim to have a battery that "boasts five to six times the storage capacity of other flow cell designs or lithium-ion batteries" but instead of selling this revolutionary battery design to everybody and making trillions, they just putter about with their own exotic car design that will never be quite finished.

In current reality, flow batteries unfortunately don't scale even to car territory, not to mention ebike.
 
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Shea N Encinitas

Active Member
BTW - REI sells a hydrogen canister based electric generator, I guess you can get a kit to produce your own hydrogen refills, not a lot of juice but clear indications of progress. Also if the Quant is a scam, what is that drifting around in the promo vids? Other players like Nissan are getting involved too. -S
 
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Paul E.

Active Member
what is that drifting around in the promo vids?
Who knows, and what does it matter? If you think about it, drifting around in a promo vid doesn't actually say anything about its' power source. What matters is: does it make any sense? If they really have a revolutionary battery, why are they not selling it and making a fortune instead of insisting on using it only in their own car design? Sorry, it's the classical revolutionary energy device scam: "we have this free energy/ultracapacitor/superbattery gizmo all ready to go, but for this excuse X that we're still working on, so invest now!"
 

Shea N Encinitas

Active Member
It matters a lot, and Quant is not the only one going this direction. Clearly you are skeptical, and I understand that, but nobodies skepticism should impede an open discussion. Also we are not talking about free energy here, just alternative energy, all within the laws of thermodynamics. -S
 

Paul E.

Active Member
I think this is quite an open discussion, and I meant what does it matter that something drifts around in a promo vid? Does the promo vid show that the drifting is done via any kind of flow cell and even less what kind of capacity the cell might have? Also, Quant doesn't claim they're "going this direction". They claim they already got there. They just have an excuse, the car, for not proving that they did, as all the scammers do.

Nunzio La Vecchia is and always has been nothing but a con man:
http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/wirtschaft/unternehmen-und-konjunktur/Der-wundersame-Solarforscher-aus-Zuerich/story/11885066
 
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Shea N Encinitas

Active Member
Drifting around with better than 2000 nm at each wheel is impressive to most of us, could it be a trick, sure but I'm not in that camp. And with the likes of Nissan also announcing working prototypes things are looking positive for the tech. Your position is triple noted.
 

Paul E.

Active Member
I'm very interested in all real battery developments: where can this announcement by Nissan be found? Quickly googling Nissan and flow cell or flow battery didn't turn up anything.
 

Chris Nolte

Well-Known Member
I don't know much about the cars allegedly using this technology, but I can say the bike made by Electrolyte at Eurobike may fall into the marketing scam arena. They displayed a prototype which was a traditional powered Ebike and they claim that they'll have a working version at Eurobike next year. I think there press release was very misleading. I hope they make something happen, but frankly I don't have too much confidence in their brand.
 

Shea N Encinitas

Active Member
I'm very interested in all real battery developments: where can this announcement by Nissan be found? Quickly googling Nissan and flow cell or flow battery didn't turn up anything.
Sorry my news feed merged alerts, combined a quant story with a Nissan consumer product story. I had to dig around too, quite a few people expecting your vaporware on the road soon. Guess we will see.
 

calvin

Active Member
I don't know much about the cars allegedly using this technology, but I can say the bike made by Electrolyte at Eurobike may fall into the marketing scam arena. They displayed a prototype which was a traditional powered Ebike and they claim that they'll have a working version at Eurobike next year. I think there press release was very misleading. I hope they make something happen, but frankly I don't have too much confidence in their brand.
Scam? Right you are. The article I referred to said it would be at Eurobike this year not next. Ouch! I was led by the nose once again.
 

Ravi Kempaiah

Well-Known Member
I'm very interested in all real battery developments: where can this announcement by Nissan be found? Quickly googling Nissan and flow cell or flow battery didn't turn up anything.
Scam? Right you are. The article I referred to said it would be at Eurobike this year not next. Ouch! I was led by the nose once again.
Sorry my news feed merged alerts, combined a quant story with a Nissan consumer product story. I had to dig around too, quite a few people expecting your vaporware on the road soon. Guess we will see.
Hydrogen Fuel cell E-bike is here.
Check out this video and I actually know a guy who graduated from this lab.
Group and research project info http://www.merlin.unsw.edu.au/
When I lived in Brisbane, I actually contacted this Prof couple of times. I certainly feel that Electrolyte's 300 mile bike is not scam. It is definitely possible. These guys at UNSW claim 125 Km but by increasing the energy density of the canister, 300 Km is doable.

 

calvin

Active Member
Thanks Ravi! Since the hydrogen is transformed directly into electricity, there is no need for a battery....the cannister is the energy repository. The cannister contains compressed hydrogen, rather than liquid hydrogen. Very Cool.