Why isn't there a "Type" for Road Bikes?

#1
The electricbikereview.com is wonderful. This post is not met to be critical of this wonderful resource.

I'm a road bike rider in my 70s and finally realized I can't keep up with the younger riders in my club (or some old ones who are just plain better riders than me). I got a Trek XM700+ after watching Courts review of it and love it. I do 30-50 mile club rides once or twice a week.

It seems like the development of ebikes is focused on commuters and off road riders. Both are great! But, what about us road bike riders? Although I love my XM 700+, it cold be a lot lighter without much design work from Trek. It would be nice to have a Type in the forum that focused on Road Bikes.
 

Ravi Kempaiah

Well-Known Member
#2
The electricbikereview.com is wonderful. This post is not met to be critical of this wonderful resource.

I'm a road bike rider in my 70s and finally realized I can't keep up with the younger riders in my club (or some old ones who are just plain better riders than me). I got a Trek XM700+ after watching Courts review of it and love it. I do 30-50 mile club rides once or twice a week.

It seems like the development of ebikes is focused on commuters and off road riders. Both are great! But, what about us road bike riders? Although I love my XM 700+, it cold be a lot lighter without much design work from Trek. It would be nice to have a Type in the forum that focused on Road Bikes.
Actually,
TREK's global service manager rides a modified XM700. There is a pic in this thread
https://electricbikereview.com/forum/threads/dail-e-grinder.8972/
 

Court

Administrator
Staff member
#3
Hi @Alan Acock! I've created a category on EBR which lists road-style electric bikes which tend to be lighter weight and some even have drop bars. If you haven't seen it yet, visit here: https://electricbikereview.com/category/road/ and as for the EBR forums, I hadn't created a sub-section yet because it didn't seem like this category had as many reviews or as much activity yet, I could add one though if you'd like :)
 

niteman

New Member
#4
The electricbikereview.com is wonderful. This post is not met to be critical of this wonderful resource.

I'm a road bike rider in my 70s and finally realized I can't keep up with the younger riders in my club (or some old ones who are just plain better riders than me). I got a Trek XM700+ after watching Courts review of it and love it. I do 30-50 mile club rides once or twice a week.

It seems like the development of ebikes is focused on commuters and off road riders. Both are great! But, what about us road bike riders? Although I love my XM 700+, it cold be a lot lighter without much design work from Trek. It would be nice to have a Type in the forum that focused on Road Bikes.
I agree on all counts with Alan and look forward to more productive comments. I'm 67 and for a variety of reasons I need some assistance in order to ride. I purchased a Giant Road-E and I'm in love. Back riding with my bike club and no issues with keeping up. Court, keep up the great work.
 
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#5
The electricbikereview.com is wonderful. This post is not met to be critical of this wonderful resource.

I'm a road bike rider in my 70s and finally realized I can't keep up with the younger riders in my club (or some old ones who are just plain better riders than me). I got a Trek XM700+ after watching Courts review of it and love it. I do 30-50 mile club rides once or twice a week.

It seems like the development of ebikes is focused on commuters and off road riders. Both are great! But, what about us road bike riders? Although I love my XM 700+, it cold be a lot lighter without much design work from Trek. It would be nice to have a Type in the forum that focused on Road Bikes.
Coverted, put some drop bars on it and you are good to go!!!
 

niteman

New Member
#6
That's a nice bike but it would never fly with someone who rides a road bike. Everything is incorrect including the geometry which can't be changed. Shfters, brakes, gears,wheels, tires.gears........the list goes on and on as to the changes required..
 

JRA

Well-Known Member
#7
I think that e road bikes make a lot of sense and made a couple based on drop bar bikes with front hub motors. I feel that for road use hub motors work plenty well enough and allow for more freedom of choice for gearing and separation of the gearing from the motors torque means you can shift whenever you want with impunity. This does not mean that a mid drive is bad, it is just my experience.

The reason I have a front hub motor is for more even weight distribution with the battery in the triangle and my weight mostly going towards the rear. I have a couple thousand miles now on this setup and really like it. The two wheel drive feature is useful also and I like the way the bike pulls instead of pushes. No odd handling traits that I can discern nor others who have ridden them. Even easy to unweight the front wheel when avoiding pot holes which surprised me even.

Having been mtb'ing for the last 35 years and only riding roads enough to get to the next trail these bikes have been a real revelation to me and the possibilities of e road bikes going forward. I am a bit put off at the manufacturers in that they are putting so much emphasis on e mtb's instead of e bikes potential for use on existing motorways. It does seem that a few of the makers are doing drop bar bikes and I am thinking they will become popular. I know that the majority of commuters where I live ride drop bar bikes and perhaps this will entice more of them to get with the e program.

The bikes have 1000w, legal in my state of OR, motors and run at 48 and 52v. I have found that I like to ride mostly in the low 20's as it affords the best range but also like the option to open it up now and then or have more on tap for hills and headwinds. I have gearing high enough to support the motor at all speeds and like to pedal on top of the motor for the most part to get a decent workout and help with range. I run as big a tire as I can at as low of a psi as I can get away with to absorb road chatter and don't feel the need for any other suspension. Fenders, lights and carrying capacity round out the utilitarian aspect.

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I managed to drop a considerable amount of weight from v 1 to v 2 but they both end up performing pretty much the same in the end.

If anyone reading this is in the PDX and wants to try out the concept hit me up!
 

JRA

Well-Known Member
#8
In order to get the gearing range I want I use Schlumpf bb drives for the above bikes. I got turned on to the concept back in 1999 while attending Interbike and got a Speed Drive, 1:1/1:1.65, in time for the 2000 riding season. That drive has a lot of miles on it now and has been mostly on this bike since new and still works great.
IMG_4257.JPG


The next year Schlumpf came out with a high speed drive, 1:1/1:2.5, and I got one of those as at the time I was experimenting with ICE motor assist and wanted a higher gear ratio. Never really got that off the ground and it stayed in the parts pile for a long time but always had a motor assist mission in mind for it. When I built the black bike up last summer I took off the stock cranks and finally got to put it to good use. As I thought years ago the high gear ratios attainable with it are great for being able to be able to pedal on top of the motor at any wattage.

When I put together the silver bike I took the Speed Drive off my Townie and installed it on it. But although it rides and shifts the same it lacks the top end capability of the High Speed Drive. The other day I had the bikes together and was doing some routine service work on them and decided to swap the drives around while doing so. On the black bike I have a 9c speed wind and the fastest I could record while pedaling on flat ground was 34 mph @ 1200w. The silver bike with the Speed Drive would spin out pretty much @ 26mph although you could coax it faster by spinning way more and with the motor up to 30+ a bit. After swapping I took the silver bike out for a speed run and recorded a 36.6 mph with perhaps a little more to go but I ran out of straight stretch, although it didn't really take too long to get up to speed.

The overall high gear with the Speed Drive is a 114" gear and with the HS Drive it is a 171" gear. Big difference for sure and what it really allows for is the ability to vary my cadence some while cruising in the mid 20's. Otherwise they both work really well for use with a hub drive motor and I am just glad that I got mine when they were half the price they are now!

I am not apt to go that speed much, if at all, during my normal rides. But I do like the gearing range afforded with the Schlumpfs and a cassette/derailleur system and how it pedals the same as my non motorized bicycles which I still enjoy riding.
 
#9
That's a nice bike but it would never fly with someone who rides a road bike. Everything is incorrect including the geometry which can't be changed. Shfters, brakes, gears,wheels, tires.gears........the list goes on and on as to the changes required..
Just purchased a Giant Road Ebike. Highly recommended.
 

pmac

New Member
#12
I think one of the more interesting road ebikes coming on the market is the pinarello nytro. It looks like Pinarello is attempting to create a true road ebike, that is very lightweight, a carbon frame, high end components and ability to ride without the battery or motor when appropriate. The fazua motor and battery can be removed from the bike as a unit. No telling what it sells for.

I don't think Court has reviewed a bike which uses the fazua motor/battery combo yet. Apparently Focus, Cube and Bianchi all have bikes that use the fazua. The downside is the battery is only 250 wh. Enough to help on hills, but completely different from most ebikes and pretty clearly aimed for road bikers. Fazua apparently allows for remote diagnostics by using downloadable software. Sounds like something Bosch, Shimano, Brose, etc should be doing. https://fazua.com/en/evation/software/

Like the bike industry in general, my guess is that the ebike market will continue to fragment to cater to various niche markets. But there is always room for one more in the garage, right?

A very nice looking bike, but I don't think is it available in the USA yet.


http://www.pinarello.com/en/bike-2018/e-bike/nytro
 
#13
The Pinarello Nytro looks to be very similar to the Focus Y road bike and both bikes look promising. In my view the biggest problem facing e-road bikes is weight. The Focus, with a weight of approximately 26 pounds is an excellent compromise. Anything heavier than that means the bike will be a chore to ride with the power off and these bikes, with their limited batteries, will not be able to travel very far with the power on all the time.
A small motor and battery means less weight, but it also means less performance and less range. I suspect these two bikes are engineered to ridden with the power only to be used on the hills.

One of the big pluses with the Focus is the bike can be ridden with the battery and motor off the bike,. This would bring the weight down to around 19 pounds.....the same weight as my Diverge.

Will there be an e-road bike in my future? Probably, since my 66 year old knees no longer like those steep hills. The big question will be how much a bike like the Nytro or Focus Y will cost.
 

JRA

Well-Known Member
#15
Considering that most of the time you would be up against the limiter on a road bike like that it probably is a good feature if it is easy to pedal. But it is never going to be as light as one without the e assist or as efficient pedaling at 20 or more because of that fact.
 
#16
My Pedego Ridgerider (e-mountain bike) tops out at 25 mph. I'd be very happy with a bike like the Orbea had the same top end. 20 mph would be the bare minimum. Anything less than that and I wouldn't be interested.
 
#17
The Orbea Gain is a very slick looking bike. I really like the specs on the gravel model that allows up to 40 mm tires. My guess is that the Orbea, Pinarello and Focus road ebikes won't be available in the US until 2019. These bikes are taking the "stealth" concept to a different level. The long-term reliability of the Fazua mid-drive motor used on the Focus and Pinarello and the x35 hub motor on the Orbea remains to be seen.

It will be interesting to see how the road ebike market develops here. Depending on the price point for highend road ebikes, I think there is a market niche for aging road bikers who want to continue to do group/club rides, charity rides, etc, but want some limited, assistance. One problem is that I doubt few bike shops that cater primarily to road bikers will be stock ebikes, thereby limiting test rides. Another issue will be whether they can overcome the historical disdain of ebikes from the road biking community. I have never understood why one rider thinks another rider is "cheating" for riding an ebike.

Court, you should try to get your hands on these to do a review.
 
#18
It's only cheating if you're competing with other cyclists, although I do like passing road bikes while riding my e-mountain bike. :D

I'll probably be a candidate for an e-road bike (66 years old, with 90 year old knees :p), if they're available in 2019. Presently, the two bikes that interest me are the Orbea and the Focus Y.

I still really like riding my road bike, but I have to admit that I'm not happy when I see a steep hill up ahead while on a ride. Hills don't bother me when I'm riding my e-mountain bike. I just select a higher power setting go.
 

Mr. Coffee

Well-Known Member
#19
On a related note, is there a possibility for a category for Touring e-bikes?

Basically, a "Touring" bike is usually a steel-framed bike with somewhat wider tires and geared a bit lower than a typical road bike, and is designed to comfortably carry a modest load. For an e-bike you'd probably want a dual-battery bike so you could plausibly cover a hundred miles or so if you were riding across Nevada or Utah.

Some of the Stromer and R&M bikes look like a plausible fit for this category, but so far I know of no purpose-built touring e-bikes.
 

Over50

Well-Known Member
#20
On a related note, is there a possibility for a category for Touring e-bikes?...
Basically, a "Touring" bike is usually a steel-framed bike with somewhat wider tires and geared a bit lower than a typical road bike, and is designed to comfortably carry a modest load. For an e-bike you'd probably want a dual-battery bike so you could plausibly cover a hundred miles or so if you were riding across Nevada or Utah...Some of the Stromer and R&M bikes look like a plausible fit for this category, but so far I know of no purpose-built touring e-bikes.
Steel framed for durability and serviceability. More comfortable riding geometry vs the road bike. Wider gear range and more durable drive trains like the Rohloff. Wheel sizes like 26" that are ideal for varied terrain and are common in other countries. Perhaps touring is one of the toughest categories to tackle for an e-bike manufacturer. Adding electronics to the bike not only complicates the travel logistics (carrying batteries, transporting batteries if you are flying to your tour start point, charging batteries etc) but also greatly increases the probability of catastrophic bike failure whilst out in the hinterlands. If I had the opportunity to do some real bike touring that was off the beaten path, I think I'd still opt for a human powered bike. For first world touring or staying on the beaten path then I think a modest electrical system that was mainly designed to provide hill climbing assistance would be ideal. It would need to have re-gen and perhaps the ability to charge via a small solar panel. And most importantly would need to be mostly drag-free when turned off. The bike needs to be able to work independently of the electric assist.