Yamaha or Bosche ?

J31968

New Member
I am about a month into the e-bike scene and I am looking to upgrade in the next 2-3 months. I am 6' currently weigh 280 and targeting myself to lose at least another 30 pounds. My normal/comfortable riding cadence is in the 60-70 range and I can make it up to 80 but over that and I start to bunny hop. I live in Eastern TN in a quite hilly region. Up until 3 years ago I was avid rider weighing around 240 until my knees just could not take the hill climbing anymore. I really like the Haibike Hardseven but I have been torn between the bosche or the Yamaha drive system. I would like to get some real world mileage results from those of you that have been riding either system. My current Raleigh Tekeoa will get up to 20 miles in level 4 and I can get right at 30 in level 1 on the local rails to trails. I have seen 1 report stating that the yamaha would do 30 miles in turbo on level ground. My reasons for the upgrade 1. looking for a better drive system. 2. would like to get more range than my current setup without having to carry 2 batteries. my typical evening ride is in the 15 mile range and when the wife and I go on the rails to trails 30 - 50 in a day is normal. i bought the raleigh at a very good price just to give this try. Now I'm hooked and feel like a kid again
 

Ravi Kempaiah

Well-Known Member
I am about a month into the e-bike scene and I am looking to upgrade in the next 2-3 months. I am 6' currently weigh 280 and targeting myself to lose at least another 30 pounds. My normal/comfortable riding cadence is in the 60-70 range and I can make it up to 80 but over that and I start to bunny hop. I live in Eastern TN in a quite hilly region. Up until 3 years ago I was avid rider weighing around 240 until my knees just could not take the hill climbing anymore. I really like the Haibike Hardseven but I have been torn between the bosche or the Yamaha drive system. I would like to get some real world mileage results from those of you that have been riding either system. My current Raleigh Tekeoa will get up to 20 miles in level 4 and I can get right at 30 in level 1 on the local rails to trails. I have seen 1 report stating that the yamaha would do 30 miles in turbo on level ground. My reasons for the upgrade 1. looking for a better drive system. 2. would like to get more range than my current setup without having to carry 2 batteries. my typical evening ride is in the 15 mile range and when the wife and I go on the rails to trails 30 - 50 in a day is normal. i bought the raleigh at a very good price just to give this try. Now I'm hooked and feel like a kid again
Brose system with 650Whr battery.
You will certainly get more range than Bosch or Yamaha with 400Whr or 500Whr batteries.
 
I have Bosch system. It's personal choice, but for me Bosch has a good name in UK, batteries are cheaper than Yamaha and i think they will be upgrading battery capacity in 2018. I manage about 60 miles from one charge in eco mode. Reading about some of the Brose issues put me off.
 

Bicyclista

Active Member
I have a Haibike Sduro FullSeven AllMtn Plus with the Yamaha motor. Never had an issue and the motor feels strong. I feel I can climb any hill. I've never been able to completely drain the battery on 40 miles roundtrip on high assist level (I like the propulsion!), including a steep descent, level paths, many small hills, and a long, long climb on the way home. The battery indicator says I have about 33% left at the end. I could probably go 60 miles. But then, I only weigh 150 lbs., considerably less than the OP.
 

Alphbetadog

Active Member
I have a Haibike Xduro, and a buddy has the Sduro. Essentially the same bike except one is the Bosch and the other a Yamaha. I ride rugged trails with lots of climbs (and downhills) and using Tour mode whenever possibly, but will go into Turbo to climb if necessary, I typically only get about 18-20 miles, whereas my buddy still has an indicated 30-40% charge left. Both have 400 watt batteries.
I've got a Bulls Brosh on its way to me, and I'm expecting a little better range.
 
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pxpaulx

Well-Known Member
Bulls with brose is awesome. So is the sduro...I have one of both! I exceed the weight limit of both bikes, and would expect to get forty miles out of the sduro on the next to highest setting, probably between 25 to 30 on full power. Honestly though, I dont really need the extra power with the amount of torque the sduro puts out. I'd say similar for the bulls, just multiply by 1.5 for the numbers as that is how much bigger the battery is.

Can't go wrong with either of those bikes or brands.
 

J31968

New Member
I like the Haibike Sduro hardseven 6.0 and the Bulls E-stream Evo 2- 27.5. Although I do not see the Evo 3 listed as a 27.5 only a 29. I am trying to get away from 29'ers. while the roll out is nice on the roads I don't like the extra height and slower starts on the trails. The drop tube on the haibike is an added plus to have a little extra clearance for rough trails. So I have heard mention of a few problems with the Bros Motors can anyone elaborate on what those problems were or what to watch out for if I go with the Bulls. Both bikes are in about the same price range so it's really just a matter of deciding which motor system I like better.
 

pxpaulx

Well-Known Member
You won't go wrong with either choice j! They are both nice bikes and the motors ride very similarly. The extra battery size should probably be your determining factor here, depending on the average length ride you intend to do.
 

J31968

New Member
Well I ran across a deal so good I could not pass it up. I purchased Sduro allmtn RC 2016. So cheap I can afford a second battery and still be well below the retail of the 2017 model. I am going to hold out and get the new 500wh battery as soon as they available
 

pxpaulx

Well-Known Member
Well I ran across a deal so good I could not pass it up. I purchased Sduro allmtn RC 2016. So cheap I can afford a second battery and still be well below the retail of the 2017 model. I am going to hold out and get the new 500wh battery as soon as they available
Congrats! The rc has a nice set of components, I'm sure you'll be happy with it. I love the Yamaha motor, it has a very nice instant delivery of power. You'll be surprised by how far the battery will take you. Nice thing about the Yamaha is that the gauge has a power output meter which shows how hard the motor us working (didn't site an actual percentage but a meter at least helps to show current output at a given moment!)
 

J31968

New Member
Took the new bike out for 20 mile run last night. I now understand why I heard the comment " tail wind" in reference to the Raleigh I have. Completely different ride. Everything went great but I did develop a creak about 1/2 way thru the ride. It almost sounds like the bash guard is rubbing on the motor. Has anyone else experienced this?
 

Steve Davies

New Member
Took the new bike out for 20 mile run last night. I now understand why I heard the comment " tail wind" in reference to the Raleigh I have. Completely different ride. Everything went great but I did develop a creak about 1/2 way thru the ride. It almost sounds like the bash guard is rubbing on the motor. Has anyone else experienced this?
Check your frame pivot bolts. I had a couple of these come loose and lost one early on. £25 each so I check em regularly now.
https://goo.gl/photos/MN8jaFwqtbdEYMBc8
 

J31968

New Member
I believe i have narrowed down to the bottom bracket. I spoke with the dealer yesterday and was instructed to re-tork the motor mounting bolts. He also said if it still creaked after that to lightly grease the shank on each one. I have read of this on earlier bosche systems but was'nt aware that yamaha experienced it too.
 

Aelx

New Member
I am about a month into the e-bike scene and I am looking to upgrade in the next 2-3 months. I am 6' currently weigh 280 and targeting myself to lose at least another 30 pounds. My normal/comfortable riding cadence is in the 60-70 range and I can make it up to 80 but over that and I start to bunny hop. I live in Eastern TN in a quite hilly region. Up until 3 years ago I was avid rider weighing around 240 until my knees just could not take the hill climbing anymore. I really like the Haibike Hardseven but I have been torn between the bosche or the Yamaha drive system. I would like to get some real world mileage results from those of you that have been riding either system. My current Raleigh Tekeoa will get up to 20 miles in level 4 and I can get right at 30 in level 1 on the local rails to trails. I have seen 1 report stating that the yamaha would do 30 miles in turbo on level ground. My reasons for the upgrade 1. looking for a better drive system. 2. would like to get more range than my current setup without having to carry 2 batteries. my typical evening ride is in the 15 mile range and when the wife and I go on the rails to trails 30 - 50 in a day is normal. i bought the raleigh at a very good price just to give this try. Now I'm hooked and feel like a kid again
I think Bosch and Yamaha are both great. I would not think about Bosch vs. Yamaha at all. Find the bike that you like and it doesn't matter what drive it has (Bosch or Yamaha). They both do exactly the same function and both excellent. In my opinion Bosch is nosier than Yamaha. I actually proffered Yamaha and I love it.
 

Larry Larson

New Member
I have a Haibike Xduro, and a buddy has the Sduro. Essentially the same bike except one is the Bosch and the other a Yamaha. I ride rugged trails with lots of climbs (and downhills) and using Tour mode whenever possibly, but will go into Turbo to climb if necessary, I typically only get about 18-20 miles, whereas my buddy still has an indicated 30-40% charge left. Both have 400 watt batteries.
I've got a Bulls Brosh on its way to me, and I'm expecting a little better range.

Do you both the same weight?
 

Steve Davies

New Member
I'm probably about 15 lbs heavier, but am certainly a stronger peddler.
I might be wrong but I don't think the Bosch has a power output bar on the display?
This is invaluable to me on my Sduro Full FatSix as I can see when I'm chewing up battery.

You say you're a stronger peddler which is possibly the problem. The more torque/pressure you put into the motors, the more they give you back.
I find my power output is loads less if I spin more/higher cadence than if I put more strength into it.
It also saves your knees.

On my "slow bike" I still use maximum pedal pressure to power through climbs but adjust to spinning more on the ebike.

The battery usage has massively reduced for me doing this.
I mostly use Eco to get a work out and only Std to be fast or lazy. Turbo is pointless on the Yamaha I feel as you get full power output from Std if you give it enough torque,
whereas Turbo uses maximum power output all the time, even if you don't need it.

One other observation since de-restricting the speed limiter - using this method
I find that as wind resistance increases you hit a top speed on a climb and it doesn't matter whether you are in Std(Tour) or Turbo mode, you won't get any faster,
but in Std mode the power output drops off at that speed limit so it's mostly your legs that keep it sustained. However Turbo mode just keeps outputting power without any increase in speed,
and it's only marginally easier on the legs. Hence a waste in battery.

As I say, the power output bar tells me everything I need to know to conserve battery.