Yamaha or Bosche ?

RoadWrinkle

Active Member
I have owned a Bosch CX Haibike and was just able to demo an SDURO all mtn at Crank Cycles here on Maui. I honestly think the Bosch CX is punchier than the Yamaha, with a feeling of a bit more power when climbing. Yamaha motor actually gives more assist at a LOWER cadence which is the opposite of the Bosch which pretty much gives you more juice the harder you pedal. So Bosch has a very sensitive torque sensor which is actually more generous than the Yamaha sensor. Probably why the Yamaha's have better range. All of these parameters are programmable, but your motor has to be able to take the extra wattage a generous system setting requires. Maybe Bosch leads in the durability factor so they can tune up their systems more than the others (?).
 

33red

Member
I have a Haibike Xduro, and a buddy has the Sduro. Essentially the same bike except one is the Bosch and the other a Yamaha. I ride rugged trails with lots of climbs (and downhills) and using Tour mode whenever possibly, but will go into Turbo to climb if necessary, I typically only get about 18-20 miles, whereas my buddy still has an indicated 30-40% charge left. Both have 400 watt batteries.
I've got a Bulls Brosh on its way to me, and I'm expecting a little better range.
I just want to be sure i understand your point correctly.
From your experience wich system delivers more range?
I am used to non assisted rides of 4 hrs so i look for good range first, speed is not a big factor for me.
Thanks
 
The biggest factor in range is the environment, not the drive.

The Bosch e-bike range calculator is a very good indication of how far you'll go, and I've found it to provide a reasonable estimate even for non-Bosch systems. You just have to make sure you put in all the parameters (hills, weight, wind, tire type, drive type, etc). If you're in the US and think your average speed might be over 25km/h, then select the Bosch Performance Speed as the drive....
The link to the US version of the range calculator is at https://www.bosch-ebike.com/us/service/range-assistant/.
 
I weigh a little more than the OP and have Haibike 6.0 with Yamaha. I selected it over the Bosch due to my rpms being similar to yours. I rode the Bosch and really liked it at high rpm but I tend not to ride that high in real world.
The Yamaha is also great from the start, which makes a difference in hilly areas. I live in the mountains and most of my riding is like interval training. I tend to adjust the power level accordingly unless I am really focused on training or just want to get pumping.
I ran out of battery on a 35 mile ride with thousands of feet of elevation gain but could get to 40 on a bike trail. I mostly use Eco or Standard but on a big hill might max it out for a bit.
Also like the build quality of the Haibike, thus far it has been a good pick.
None of that is meant to be anything against the Bosch system, which is a workhorse. I rode it in Portugal in very steep areas and it performed all as long as I kept my cadence high (to me).
 

Rapid Dog

New Member
I dunno. New to this but I just test rode a 2018 Bosch CX back to back with a 2018 Yamaha on the street and it felt anemic in comparison.
Went with the Yam.
 

Nagash

New Member
Hi everyone. First thanks for this topic, i've been reading a lot about these e-bikes and probably going to buy/order my first one tomorrow.

Would anyone have a recommendation for me considering the following usage / "needs":
  • I weight ~260 lbs, I'm 6'3'' with quite long inseam I think and have been riding adventure motorcycles for 15 years. I like comfort, a one-can-do-everything style of bike, and I'm probably not a good / real cyclist (yet?)
  • I just moved from France (mountain region) to Chicago downtown (flat area but windy city) and intend to visit all the countryside around the city / lake Michigan, so potentially long range trips / wind resistance.
  • I might go on low level trails, just to try, but definitely not the main objective. Tourism on week-ends / for a week is the main target.
  • I'm not lazy and can pedal fast (read a lot about RPMs impact of engine), rather than pedaling with high effort (knees...)
  • I don't plan to use the bike to commute, unless we move out of downtown next year.
After looking a huge amount of EBR videos, my choice is narrowed down between
  • Haibike 2018 Trekking 6.0 (Yamaha PW)
  • Haibike 2018 Trekking 7.0 (Bosch CX)

Thoughts?
 

33red

Member
I enjoy my 2017 Haibike Hardseven model 6.0 so i can recommand it for the bike and the Yamaha. Than for my toughts, you are a candidate for a Mobylette. I had one 45 years ago it is a category where the engine must be under 50 cc so they are 49 cc motorcycle with pedals. You can refill the gas thank so the range is never a concern. You are starting with 3 strikes, A- your weight B- the wind C- you do not have the habit of pedaling for hours. You will drain your batery real fast so you will need to carry 2 X 500. Ebikes are sold to all kind of buyers but they are not suited for everyone. For a short commute i mean 30 to and 30 minutes back you can buy. I can use mine for 4 hours but i was used to 4 hrs not assisted and i am 135 pounds. Why bother with the assist, why not simply get a bike? If you buy a bike get the cassette switched for easier gearing, mine was 11-36 and i use a 11-42 it allows you to climb if you are without assist and streches your range.
 
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Nagash

New Member
I actually bought a regular bike last week (Electra Verse 24D), since they had a 7 days full refund policy (and I returned it today). I wanted to test riding in this area, see how I'd handle it and where I could go. I did a 30 miles trip right after exiting the shop and obviously was worn out after that since I don't really have a regular fitness activity. And a bike saddle is wayyyy smaller than my previous motorcycle saddle...
The main "issue" for me is the ratio pleasure / effort and this video somehow inspired me:
I don't intend to do tough hill climbs (there's no real hill here, as far as I know...) but for me every interesting point is far from downtown.

As for the "mobylette" (didn't know this french word was used here ;) ), I'd assume you can't ride that on bike trails / lanes.
If I were to guy something with a thermal engine, that'd definitely be an adv bike, but I'd like to "resist" a bit longer than 2 months before diving into that again :D

I don't mind pedaling for 4 hours (I think), if the effort put in the pedaling isn't too much for my thighs / knees.
 

33red

Member
Well you got your answer, you will appreciate max assist but you will be limited in your range. Buy a used one,
if you resell you will not have wasted too much.
 

Nagash

New Member
I looked for used ones, but can't find anything in my size around me.
I'm not a big Ebay fan for such a purchase, so the deal I found on the Trekking 7.0 sounded good to me. $1999 instead of 3399$ for a 2018 new model, that made my decision. Bought at my LBS (learning terms here...) who aligned on the Haibike USA website price
Now just need to wait for it to arrive... :)
 

33red

Member
I hope you enjoy it. Without real hills being on an empty batery is not that bad. The bike is good, i was just warning you that at max assist it will not last as long as if you dial it down.
 

Nagash

New Member
First 2 rides, 13 and 18 miles, only 1/5 battery bar turned off using mainly Eco / Tour modes. That's exactly what I was looking for.
I expect longer rides this coming 3-days week-end :)