100 Mile Challenge under 4.5 hours (at 22 mph average speed) Using Car Station Recharge Network

BikeMike

Active Member

Will you be the first or fastest person to complete an eBike ride for 100 miles at average speed of 22 mph, or higher?

  • I reason that you probably need to recharge twice at 33 miles apart.
    • 80% battery charge is probably optimal, from 40%.
    • The primary unanswered question is: What is the best battery strategy?
  • How you can train for the distance is explained in my notes, below.
  • I found this web site useful.
  • Fortunate ones might be able to ride around their city, or across their entire state using the car station network.
    • Why should it be any different than gas powered cars?
    • Connecticut is 110 miles long and 70 miles wide.
  • Please let us know how you solved this problem about a J1772 connector for the charger:
  1. Post #12
    • Not necessarily, a lot of e-bike chargers support 240V input.

      Just checked the 4 I have and they all do, including another 8 or so for other PEV. The Grin Cycle Satiator also support 240V input.
      I have a J1772 Level-2 AC adapter, but the important thing is it will only work on chargers that are AC, and not the newer DC chargers. Not sure how well this will work out in the real world charger network.
      • Interesting... thanks for sharing.
        Can you list the 240V chargers for reference?
        Where did you source your J1772 Level 2 adapter for 120V AC power?
    [*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*]

The original threads are:

The detailed reasoning from the posts follows:

A more quantifable question for planning purposes follows. I am trying reason about the solution, more than calculate the answer.

  • I am looking for a general ratio of human to motor power that maximizes speed and optimizes battery consumption.
    • My guess is 2:1 power ratio, @ 22 mph for four hours or 88 miles.
    • Therefore, i will pedal 12 miles unpowered over 100 miles.
    • The elapsed time is TBD.
    • A 2:1 ratio is another way of expressing Eco mode.
    • Therefore, I should be able to make my 105 mile trip by turing off power on the downhill sections.
      • Set three power modes to 05%, 17% and 33%.
      • 5% rather than turing off power.
      • Or, roughly 20:1, 4:1 and 2:1 human to motor power ratios
    • In adverse conditions, my backup plan is to recharge during lunch.
  • Let's simplify any parameter that upsets the ratio in a significant manner, by assuming a reasonable default,
    • i.e, wind less than 5 mph.
    • Excellent aerobic capacity and leg strength
    • Default bike

The goal is determine how far i must pedal unpowered.
  • I am willing to pedal unpowered for some distance ratio, depending on average powered speed.
  • I am willing to stop and recharge batteries during food break(s), for some ratio of time, given average speed.

At what approximate speed range is battery consumption optimized?
  • over a 100 mile course (along two rivers)
  • on relatively flat terrain, i.e., both gradually gaining and losing 1,000 feet per 50 miles
  • assuming 240 watts (same as motor)
  • Obviously, using the capacity of both batteries for Creo SL Comp Carbon
  • More parameters might be necessary?
  • What recharge strategy might minimize recharge delay?
    • Recharge battery from 40% to 80% ?
  • I don't have a power meter for my bike, but buying one might eliminate guesswork.
  • I am just trying to build a few profiles to categorize scenarios
    • 15 to 20 mph
    • 21 to 26 mph
    • Or any meaningful speed ranges

To establish a progressive training program that eventually allows me to reach 100 miles:
  • Turn around at half battery power, if distance is less than 55 miles.
    • Set three power modes to 05%, 17% and 33%.
    • 5% rather than turing off power
    • 20:1, 4:1 and 2:1 human to motor power ratios
  • At halfway point, recharge time is dictated by time needed to recharge to half capacity.
  • Which head unit gives most precise and/or useful battery and power information?
I feel fairly confident that a fast (22mph average speed), 100 mile ride is feasible with useful information and a car charging station network. The primary unanswered question is the best battery strategy?

  1. At what battery capacity level should the battery be recharged? (40%) ?
  2. What level should the battery be recharged to? (80%) ?
  3. I prefer to rely completely on the main battery, to save weight and expense.
  4. My guess is two stops are required, about 33 miles apart?
Here's an example 100 mile route around Denver:

Denver100Route.png
 
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harryS

Well-Known Member
Ravi did it in 2018. Average speed of 22 mph from Madison, WI to the Pacific Coast. 169 miles a day for 3 34 days. He had to work on his thesis during part of that ride and had a few days under 100 miles.


Yes, he had a SAG vehicle that kept his batteries charged, but he was pounding out 200+ mile days.

By the way, it's your battery charger that will determine how fast the battery recharges, not whether you get 110VAC or 240VAC, so you don't need to detour out of the way to find a car charging network. If your bike happens to have a fast 5A charger (most are 2 amps), it will take 2 hours to put 10AH back into the battery. That means 5 hours to replenish 10AH with a 2A charger. That's the numbers. Do a 33 mile leg and see how long it takes to recharge. You might have more time for lunch than you think.

Also, I suggest not giving away 20% of your capacity for this challenge. Charge to 100%.

If you have a good bike and are in good shape, this sounds like fun. Good luck.

But in perspective, I mentioned to a golfing buddy (lives 4 blocks away), who is in his early 70's, that I like biking. He then tells me he rides 100 miles once a week on his road bike. Jeez.
 
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BikeMike

Active Member
Ravi did it in 2018. Average speed of 22 mph from Madison, WI to the Pacific Coast. 169 miles a day for 3 days. He had to work on his thesis during part of that ride and had a few days under 100 miles.


Yes, he had a SAG vehicle that kept his batteries charged, but he was pounding out 200+ mile days.

By the way, it's your battery charger that will determine how fast the battery recharges, not whether you get 110VAC or 240VAC, so you don't need to detour out of the way to find a car charging network. If your bike happens to have a fast 5A charger (most are 2 amps), it will take 2 hours to put 10AH back into the battery. That means 5 hours to replenish 10AH with a 2A charger. That's the numbers. Do a 33 mile leg and see how long it takes to recharge. You might have more time for lunch than you think.

Also, I suggest not giving away 20% of your capacity for this challenge. Charge to 100%.

If you have a good bike and are in good shape, this sounds like fun. Good luck.

But in perspective, I mentioned to a golfing buddy (lives 4 blocks away), who is in his early 70's, that I like biking. He then tells me he rides 100 miles once a week on his road bike. Jeez.
Hats off to Ravi! That's impressive! Did he ever charge his bike at an EV charging station?

I am considering this bike.

I doubt the charger is adequate. The 160wH extender is probably essential. I might need between one and two hours of recharge time.

The Amps are not stated. I searched google, but the amperage is not evident. 2.5 hours to charge a 320 wH battery.

I plan to ride a 100 mile route on a regular basis:


  • Custom Li-Ion battery charger for Specialized SL batteries.
  • 48V system
  • Compact and lightweight design.
  • Equipped with a custom plug and light indication of the charging status.
 
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opimax

Well-Known Member
I try to ride 100 - 125 miles every other day. I don’t have my bikes working well so it Is hit or miss . I have at least 3 batterries for either bike but carry 3 total When I ride. I avg 18-20 mph when actually pedaling. oh my Bh nitro I can get 30 miles per battery if I ride powered the whole trip. if I save battery and ride partially unpowered I can get 50 miles on the way out on a battery but can’t keep the speed up. On the Stromer I can run powered the whole trip and estimate over 140 miles and keep speed , bigger batteries . Most I have done is 129.

I am not an athelete! I am in my 60s , weigh about 200 lbs at 6ft

i stop 2 times usually to eat fruit and rest for about 20 minutes.

i could probably go faster if I remember to push or or went with someone that did.

stopping for charging would take too long for me and not many choices in the countryside

my main point is get more batteries! :)
 

BikeMike

Active Member
I try to ride 100 - 125 miles every other day. I don’t have my bikes working well so it Is hit or miss . I have at least 3 batterries for either bike but carry 3 total When I ride. I avg 18-20 mph when actually pedaling. oh my Bh nitro I can get 30 miles per battery if I ride powered the whole trip. if I save battery and ride partially unpowered I can get 50 miles on the way out on a battery but can’t keep the speed up. On the Stromer I can run powered the whole trip and estimate over 140 miles and keep speed , bigger batteries . Most I have done is 129.

I am not an athelete! I am in my 60s , weigh about 200 lbs at 6ft

i stop 2 times usually to eat fruit and rest for about 20 minutes.

i could probably go faster if I remember to push or or went with someone that did.

stopping for charging would take too long for me and not many choices in the countryside

my main point is get more batteries! :)
I think you accomplished alot already, no need to push it any further.

My guess is the human-to-motor-power ratio is somewhere between 2:1 and 20:1. That's hard!
 
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dblhelix

Well-Known Member

Will you be the first or fastest person to complete an eBike ride for 100 miles at average speed of 22 mph, or higher?

  • I reason that you probably need to recharge twice at 33 miles apart.
    • 80% battery charge is probably optimal, from 40%.
    • The primary unanswered question is: What is the best battery strategy?
  • How you can train for the distance is explained in my notes, below.
  • I found this web site useful.
  • Fortunate ones might be able to ride around their city, or across their entire state using the car station network.
    • Why should it be any different than gas powered cars?
    • Connecticut is 110 miles long and 70 miles wide.
  • Please let us know how you solved this problem about a J1772 connector for the charger:

The original threads are:

The detailed reasoning from the posts follows:

A more quantifable question for planning purposes follows. I am trying reason about the solution, more than calculate the answer.

  • I am looking for a general ratio of human to motor power that maximizes speed and optimizes battery consumption.
    • My guess is 2:1 power ratio, @ 22 mph for four hours or 88 miles.
    • Therefore, i will pedal 12 miles unpowered over 100 miles.
    • The elapsed time is TBD.
    • A 2:1 ratio is another way of expressing Eco mode.
    • Therefore, I should be able to make my 105 mile trip by turing off power on the downhill sections.
      • Set three power modes to 05%, 17% and 33%.
      • 5% rather than turing off power.
      • Or, roughly 20:1, 4:1 and 2:1 human to motor power ratios
    • In adverse conditions, my backup plan is to recharge during lunch.
  • Let's simplify any parameter that upsets the ratio in a significant manner, by assuming a reasonable default,
    • i.e, wind less than 5 mph.
    • Excellent aerobic capacity and leg strength
    • Default bike

The goal is determine how far i must pedal unpowered.
  • I am willing to pedal unpowered for some distance ratio, depending on average powered speed.
  • I am willing to stop and recharge batteries during food break(s), for some ratio of time, given average speed.

At what approximate speed range is battery consumption optimized?
  • over a 100 mile course (along two rivers)
  • on relatively flat terrain, i.e., both gradually gaining and losing 1,000 feet per 50 miles
  • assuming 240 watts (same as motor)
  • Obviously, using the capacity of both batteries for Creo SL Comp Carbon
  • More parameters might be necessary?
  • What recharge strategy might minimize recharge delay?
    • Recharge battery from 40% to 80% ?
  • I don't have a power meter for my bike, but buying one might eliminate guesswork.
  • I am just trying to build a few profiles to categorize scenarios
    • 15 to 20 mph
    • 21 to 26 mph
    • Or any meaningful speed ranges

To establish a progressive training program that eventually allows me to reach 100 miles:
  • Turn around at half battery power, if distance is less than 55 miles.
    • Set three power modes to 05%, 17% and 33%.
    • 5% rather than turing off power
    • 20:1, 4:1 and 2:1 human to motor power ratios
  • At halfway point, recharge time is dictated by time needed to recharge to half capacity.
  • Which head unit gives most precise and/or useful battery and power information?
I feel fairly confident that a fast (22mph average speed), 100 mile ride is feasible with useful information and a car charging station network. The primary unanswered question is the best battery strategy?

  1. At what battery capacity level should the battery be recharged? (40%) ?
  2. What level should the battery be recharged to? (80%) ?
  3. I prefer to rely completely on the main battery, to save weight and expense.
  4. My guess is two stops are required, about 33 miles apart?
Here's an example 100 mile route around Denver:


Why is this a challenge? I did 200+ miles in a day last summer on tour. No support van. Plugged into outlets at convenience stores. I think you will find many who have done 100+ here.

My impression is you are overthinking this. Why an EV charging station? Your trail is super-flat, which is helpful. My best day last summer was 236 miles IIRC bc I was able to leverage flats and downhills That didn’t use much juice. I have a dual-battery set-up which helped enormously.

i 100% agree with the users who are pointing out that your charge rate is rate-limiting. This is your real issue depending on how many batteries you have. To facilitate charging in these situations,I take two chargers which is kind of a drag. It’s not the miles or time on the bike — it’s the sitting on your butt while charging that sux! Have fun with your route.
 

BikeMike

Active Member
Why is this a challenge? I did 200+ miles in a day last summer on tour. No support van. Plugged into outlets at convenience stores. I think you will find many who have done 100+ here.

My impression is you are overthinking this. Why an EV charging station? Your trail is super-flat, which is helpful. My best day last summer was 236 miles IIRC bc I was able to leverage flats and downhills That didn’t use much juice. I have a dual-battery set-up which helped enormously.

i 100% agree with the users who are pointing out that your charge rate is rate-limiting. This is your real issue depending on how many batteries you have. To facilitate charging in these situations,I take two chargers which is kind of a drag. It’s not the miles or time on the bike — it’s the sitting on your butt while charging that sux! Have fun with your route.
I called Specialized. They weren't sure. I would have bikepacking gear for camping overnight, perhaps 20 pounds.

Speed, rather than distance, is the issue. I want to average 20 to 25mph, over the entire elapsed time. I am concerned about recharge time reducing the average speed below 15 mph.
 
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dblhelix

Well-Known Member
I called Specialized. They weren't sure. I would have bikepacking gear for camping overnight, perhaps 20 pounds.

The distance is not the issue. I want to average 20 to 25mph, over the entire distance. I am concerned about recharge time reducing the average time below 15 mph.
I am not familiar with Specialized, so you tell us: you have two batteries, can you charge them independently? What is the battery capacity? Charging rate of charger: 2A, 4A, etc? With that info, you’ll get a reliable estimate on discharge and charge durations to help you plan.

You will likely spend as much time charging as you do riding. That’s what I found at about the same clip.
 
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BikeMike

Active Member
I am not familiar with Specialized, so you tell us: you have two batteries, can you charge them independently? What is the battery capacity? Charging rate of charger: 2A, 4A, etc? With that info, you’ll get a reliable estimate on discharge and charge durations to help you plan.
Thanks.
  1. One 340 wH intermal battery that takes 2.5 hours to charge (6.9 Amp Hours)
  2. One 170wH external Extender battery that takes 3.5 hours to charge (no mistake in numbers)
  3. They can be charged from the same charger or independently using two chargers.
  4. 3A charger
My goal is ride the 100 miles in 4.5 hours. I doubt that is possible with recharge time.

 
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dblhelix

Well-Known Member
Thanks. The amperage is not readily available online. I will call Specialized after they open.
  1. One 340 wH intermal battery that takes 2.5 hours to charge
  2. One 170wH external Extender battery that takes 3.5 hours to charge (no mistake in numbers)
  3. They can be charged from the same charger or independently using two chargers.
  4. My guess is 2 or 4A charger. Info seems hidden.
My goal is ride the 100 miles in 4.5 hours. I doubt that is possible with recharge time.
I think you are correct as you will need two charge stops @ prob 3hrs ea, two chargers going. It’ll be a 10hr day with the charging. You wI’ll have to provide a lot of the power yourself to reduce charging time. That might not be so bad if the bike doesn’t weigh a ton and u keep your gear to under 20lb.
 

BikeMike

Active Member
I think you are correct as you will need two charge stops @ prob 3hrs ea, two chargers going. It’ll be a 10hr day with the charging. You wI’ll have to provide a lot of the power yourself to reduce charging time. That might not be so bad if the bike doesn’t weigh a ton and u keep your gear to under 20lb.
The bike weighs around 30 pounds.

I'm trying to find a ratio of human-to-motor-power. I might be able to train to achieve 22mph. If i exert four times motor power, is 4.5 hours reasonable?

My guess is the ratio is somewhere between 2:1 and 20:1. Here's how i reason about a 4:1 ratio. 3:1 is more reasonable. I just estimating in approximate numbers to guess at some ratio.
  1. I would set power modes to 5%, 17% and 33%.
  2. The motor is 240 watts. The maximum power from me is 240 watts * 0.33 * 4 = 317. (3:1 = 240)
  3. The max power is 80 + 317 = 397. (3:1 = 320)
  4. I believe 25mph is 300W, therefore i believe it might be feasible with minimum recharge delay.
  5. The battery is 510wH. 100 miles is 80W * 4.5h = 360W.
    1. Recharge may be necessary.
    2. The second battery is required, unless i want to ride unpowered for 20W.
    3. I never draw my phone under 40% power, to preserve health.
    4. I would like to recharge at 310W of battery use, which is probably a two hour delay.
    5. I need a 6A Charger to average 22mph, roughly speaking.
 
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dblhelix

Well-Known Member
The bike weighs around 30 pounds.

I'm trying to find a ratio of human-to-motor-power. I might be able to train to achieve 22mph. If i exert four times motor power, is 4.5 hours reasonable?

My guess is the ratio is somewhere between 2:1 and 20:1. Here's how i reason about a 4:1 ratio. 3:1 is more reasonable. I just estimating in approximate numbers to guess at some ratio.
  1. I would set power modes to 5%, 17% and 33%.
  2. The motor is 240 watts. The maximum power from me is 240 watts * 0.33 * 4 = 317. (3:1 = 240)
  3. The max power is 80 + 317 = 397. (3:1 = 320)
  4. I believe 25mph is 300W, therefore i believe it might be feasible with minimum recharge delay.
Actually, at that bike weight, you could treat this as a regular (human) effort with polite boosts along the way. Didn’t realize the bike is this light. It’s only about 5lb more than my non-e touring bike, and on consistently flat terrain like what you’re eying, light use of the battery might get you through. I also wonder how much drag the motor will oppose you with If you ride stretches unpowered.

if you haven’t purchased one yet, are you able to get one to use for a day? That would be ideal.
 

BikeMike

Active Member
Actually, at that bike weight, you could treat this as a regular (human) effort with polite boosts along the way. Didn’t realize the bike is this light. It’s only about 5lb more than my non-e touring bike, and on consistently flat terrain like what you’re eying, light use of the battery might get you through. I also wonder how much drag the motor will oppose you with If you ride stretches unpowered.

if you haven’t purchased one yet, are you able to get one to use for a day? That would be ideal.
Yes. My bike shop has one in their demo fleet. The demo program is shutdown until further notice.

Evidently, the SL motor has unnoticeable drag. That's the big appeal. I expect to ride without power at times.
 

BikeMike

Active Member
Yes. My bike shop has one in their demo fleet. The demo program is shutdown until further notice.

Evidently, the SL motor has unnoticeable drag. That's the big appeal. I expect to ride without power at times.
BTW - i believe the lightest model is 27 pounds.
 

dblhelix

Well-Known Member
Yes. My bike shop has one in their demo fleet. The demo program is shutdown until further notice.

Evidently, the SL motor has unnoticeable drag. That's the big appeal. I expect to ride without power at times.
That’s really a game-changer. I’m not sure of the CO situation but in the northeast, everything is reopening, for the moment at least. I would definitely want to try this one out before buying bc the marketing is so critical to your intended use.
 

BikeMike

Active Member
Actually, at that bike weight, you could treat this as a regular (human) effort with polite boosts along the way. Didn’t realize the bike is this light. It’s only about 5lb more than my non-e touring bike, and on consistently flat terrain like what you’re eying, light use of the battery might get you through. I also wonder how much drag the motor will oppose you with If you ride stretches unpowered.

if you haven’t purchased one yet, are you able to get one to use for a day? That would be ideal.
T
That’s really a game-changer. I’m not sure of the CO situation but in the northeast, everything is reopening, for the moment at least. I would definitely want to try this one out before buying bc the marketing is so critical to your intended use.
yes. I agree. The numbers are rough estimates. The bike in my size is not in USA inventory. Waiting until next year might be advantageous. Battery pack recharge time might improve. Splurging on a watt meter is probably a better use of money.

I estimate the effective range is 75% of my need. A substantial gain over my mechanical Diverge road bike. The Creo geometry comes from the Diverge, which i love. The balance of comprises is excellent.

The biggest weakness in this product is the battery pack recharge time.
 
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CdnShaun

Active Member
You have two awesome threads on the go for this challenge you are chasing down BikeMike - well done and exciting.

I really appreciate all you have shared and all the other members have given for input. Your approach is from a lightweight design, option to ride human power only and use charging services along the way.

I'm currently working on a project that is your opposite, heavy duty bike with enough battery capacity to move itself plus me (270lbs) plus tools/fluids/trailer/camping gear (100lbs total more?) - still very much a bike that will have me pedaling along with a 125-135bpm heart rate average but otherwise the motor/batteries will be doing much more of the work I admit and share - having the 100mile (or more?) range as you are looking to achieve.

I look forward to your decisions and your updates on your adventures (this year or next) when you achieve your purchase and plan to go riding as you have shared. In turn I hope to be sharing my bike camping updates in August/September this year if everything goes to plan.

Cheers!