[#14][M2S] .. I FINALLY killed my ebike battery.. times 2..

Sic Puppy

Member
I FINALLY killed my ebike battery.. times 2.. It is finally time to post a thread that answers the question that most novice ebike owners want an answer to: “Just how long can I expect the battery on my wonderful ebike toy to actually function correctly before needing to purchase a replacement unit?”. After all, the $600+ battery is by far, the most expensive component on a rear hub motor ebike. The motor comes in a distant 2nd at around $250.
I recently killed two of my batteries. Here is their past history (by the way, "Born on" is the date the ebike, or the individual battery, arrived at my front door):
BATTERY #1: 48volt/16ah.. Born on April 26, 2019.
Expired on Aug 23, 2022 (a lifespan of 1,195 days).
BATTERY #2: 48volt/16ah.. Born on July 11, 2019.
Expired on Sept 9, 2022 (a lifespan of 1,156 days).
Both of these batteries were originally M2S (ebike brand) https://shop.m2sbikes.com/? components. I would guesstimate that during the past 3+ years, I have charged each of these batteries at least 900 times, each time to 100% charge.
Battery #1 is actually a replacement provided by the wonderful folks at M2S because I thought the original item, delivered on April 30, 2018 with the rest of the 2018 KUSH (model, now known as 750FS) rear hub fat tire ebike had, at the 1-year mark, crapped out. Not so much “crapped out”, but rather experienced a reduced mileage-per-charge (40 instead of the original 55 to 60).
Back then I was not familiar with the idiosyncrasy known as “a full 4 seasons (summer, fall, winter, spring)” of battery fluctuation as a result of 100 degree temperatures, as well as 12 degree temperatures-- batteries do NOT like/appreciate either extreme. Therefore, as a result, the original power band is slowly reduced/degraded and mileage per charge suffers- for ever and ever. Both of the aforementioned batteries were down to 27 miles per charge, when used on the two M2S ebikes, at their final demise. However, when used on the ArielRider X52 ebike, only 14 miles per charge was attainable. Go figure.
M2S was really nice about my concerns that the original battery was defective. They just sent me a new battery (now known as battery #1) and I mailed the “defective” battery back to them. And that explains the one year time span (May 2018-April 2019) .End of that story.
Battery #2 came with my awesome 2019 M2S (brand) R750(model) rear hub fat tire ebike. I always refer to this ebike as WhiteyFord.
In regards to both of these batteries “stoppage”: they would charge up normally. However, when installed on the ebike and turned on, there would be an immediate (or very soon thereafter) shutdown of power. Since both of those batteries have an internal 40amp blade-type of fuse for protection, I checked that option . In both instances, the fuse was otay. That meant that enough of the individual internal cells had probably crapped out to then render the battery unusable.
You will find that there are companies out there who specialize in repairing these ebike batteries. What they will do is inspect/replace the defective cells, at a cost of around $400. That still leaves “X” number of the original cells still in use. What if, 3 months down the road, they decide to go titz up? Another outlay of $400 for replacement cells?? Just go ahead and buy a complete NEW replacement battery (my modus operandi). You will be ahead of the game in the long run. Plus, if like my situation, you have had many, many miles of usage from that original battery, then you have gotten your $$$ worth. Fer sure.
Let us proceed..
My daily ebike ride consists of 50 miles. I have been guilty of this activity since Summer 2018 (4+ years ago). Until the summer of 2020, the 2 batteries that recently keeled over were in daily use. To accomplish this distance, I always use 2 batteries-- 1 on the ebike and 1 stashed in my backpack. Depending on my state of mind, I will either stop at the 25 mile mark and swap out the units, or I will just continue riding until the first battery peters out and shuts down completely. I will then swap those rascals out. I may only need 15 miles from the replacement unit (to attain 50 total miles). I do this pretty much every day. If not every day, then at least 5 times per week. My batteries definitely earn their keep, so to speak. And, always tucked away in the nether regions of my lil peanut brain is “How long until this battery finally just keels over dead?”. Now I know. And so do you.
To be perfectly honest with you, I now have only 3 reliable batteries left with which to use for my daily 50 mile rides:
48volt/14.5ah battery, born on May 28, 2020 (842 days ago).
48volt/21ah battery, born on July 25, 2021 (419 days ago).
52Volt/18ah battery, born on Aug 5, 2021 (408 days ago).
As you can see, those 3 batteries are not nearly as old as the 2 deceased batteries (RIP). However, their time will come soon enough. So, what to do, what to do?? Order ANOTHER battery!! YaHoo!! Go Puppy, Go Puppy!! And, I did. More on that item later.
I guess that I keep straying from the intent of this particular thread subject, but that's otay.
Now, back on course:
Each of my batteries (and each of my 6 ebikes, too, for that matter) has a series of labels stuck to them:
Date of purchase..
Which ebike the battery belongs to..
The voltage/ah..
And, sadly, when available, date of death..

Each battery also has a color piece of tape stuck to the end cap for easy reference and as a place to jot down the miles used for that days ride. I also use black&white checkered duct tape wrapped around the charger input end of the two 52volt batteries. That visual reminder keeps me focused at charger usage time. The 52v charger also has that tape wrapped around its cable down near the connector. You can never to too careful when dealing with that part of ebike world.
As an interested ebike owner/potential buyer, you will encounter a never-ending barrage of ideas/opinions/expectations/encounters (like mine) as to the yin and yang of ebike battery maintenance. I, too, at one time, was one of those concerned folks. Then, finally, I just said SCREW IT. Nowadays I just give the batteries a 1 hour cool-down period (if from either 100 degree heat or 12 degree snow) and then I plug in the charger and let 'er rip, at 3amps, for 6 hours..
My daily modus operandi for my pesky batteries is to always begin the ride using the oldest battery on the shelf. After that decision, it is just a matter of which remaining battery to abuse. Remember, I had 5 batteries to choose from-- until the recent demise of those 2.
By the way, you will encounter much back-and-forth about “mixing” 48volt batteries/ebikes and 52volt batteries/ebikes. The reality is that it JUST DOESN'T MATTER. Sure, the “battery remaining” icon readings on your handlebar Computer Display Unit(CDU) might be off by a little, but not to worry. No smoke will appear from either the battery, the ebike motor, or the CDU. I used to actually get into the CDU menu and manually change the “voltage” option. However, when I realized just how minimal the the real difference was, I just left all my ebikes (two M2S brand 48volt ebikes AND the one 52volt ebike- a 2021 ArielRider X52) on the “48” display setting. Potato, potatoe.. Besides, my daily total miles ridden is really the only thing I care about.
Now, lets see.. You have seen just how long the top quality batteries in my ebikes have managed to survive my daily never-ending cycling escapades. By the way, the 2018 KUSH now has 21,000+ miles. The 2019 R750 has 15,000+ miles. The 2021 X52 has 8,000+ miles. So, I do get my $$$ worth out of my toyz. And herein lies another smattering of Words of Wisdom, as learned from my own interactions with aftermarket battery purchases..
I have purchased a battery from an overseas internet vendor on 2 separate occasions since 2019. Every instance was a really hard lesson learned. Should a situation occur, you are pretty much a screwed pooch as far as getting satisfaction/financial restitution from an institution ½ a world away. I sure learned some hard lessons. Ouch.
My initial advise to a potential battery buyer is to buy from an ebike company/dealer here in the USA. There is, most likely, going to be a few more $$$ spent for the purchase of the battery. You will, however, have piece of mind knowing that any kind of performance issue (from the battery) will be/should be taken care of promptly and with minimal hassle. After all, the USA company should have a decent Quality Control section.
I mentioned earlier in this posting that I had recently ordered yet another battery. The order was placed through this lady, Jenny Mao. The following is her EBReview thread, as posted on behalf of her company/employer: https://electricbikereview.com/forums/threads/reention-newly-upgrade-48v-25ah-36v-30ah-505l-interchangeable-for-ebikes-surface-604-ncm-rize-magnum-aventon.42705/ It was because of this thread, and the followup email communications with her concerning my potential purchase, that I went ahead and placed my order.
It is for the following: 52v/20ah Reention Dorado (it is the style of outer casing used on all on my ebikes), 18 inch battery length/14s4p Samsung 50E 21700 cell pack/5 holes/ 2 pin discharge port /DC2.1 barrel Charging Port&amp/30Amp BMS for max 1000w motor/with USB port/Battery+shipping cost to US $600, no extra customs. (I also had the option of buying other units, including a 48v/25ah battery for $700).
Jenny will offer you many options as to how you want YOUR new battery to be configured. Her company also offers JUICED (ebike brand) battery casings, so you JUICED owners have an option other than the JUICED website.
As for battery/charger connector items. Jenny offers the customer the choice of many different configurations. If you are interested in purchasing a compatible charger along with your battery purchase, their charger outer casing is finned aluminum instead of the cheapo plastic casing found on most chargers. Those plastic casings can get very warm, even hot. I learned a hard lesson on that matter very early in my ebike life (back in late 2017).
I also learned some interesting technical info from Jenny in regards to the charger output connector, specifically the DC2.1mm barrel unit. (it looks like a chrome .22 caliber bullet with a hole in the end); it is designed to be used by 1amp or 2amp or 3amp charger output. A 4amp or 5amp is considered to be too much of a strain on the 2.1connector/battery. So, while a 5amp charge will give your battery 100% in four hours, a 4amp charge takes five hours, and a 3amp charge takes six hours. Just goes to show you that life is definitely a trade-off.
In dealing with Jenny as it pertains to your particular ebike and its options: She will gather all of your information (ebike-wise) from you. She will then go research/find the options available to your situation. Quite the professional.
A word of advice from me: think of your ebike battery as an automobile gas tank. 48Volt/16ah= a sixteen gallon gas tank. 52volt/20ah= a twenty gallon gas tank. 48Volt/25ah= a twenty-five gallon gas tank. The 48volt-versus-52volt option is a trivial difference. Just expect to see 60volt batteries make an appearance in the future. That being the case, a 52volt battery will probably be compatible with the 60v unit. However, expect a 48volt battery to be too far out of parameter for a safe interaction. So, if at all possible ($$$ wise), go with the largest battery, both “volt” and “ah”.
By the way, I own the following aftermarket battery chargers:
Two 48v units (80%, 90%, 100%, and 1,2,3,4, or 5amp):
https://lunacycle.com/luna-charger-48v-advanced-300w-ebike-charger/
And one 52v unit ( also 80%, 90%, 100%, and 1,2,3,4, or 5amp) [I fixed this link on Sept.22]
https://cycles.eco/products/52v-advanced-300w-eco-charger-1-to-5a-80-90-100?variant=39355842953393
A SideNote: this 52v charger is also available from LUNA:
https://lunacycle.com/luna-charger-52v-advanced-300w-ebike-charger/
All of these specialty chargers have a great price-point.

So, you can use/abuse the crappy doodle out of these batteries and, if name brand ebike company quality units, they will just keep on ticking-- for thousands of days.
As for the 2 piece of chit batteries that I purchased from DHGate.com website and from AliXpress.com website: STAY FAR FAR AWAY FROM THOSE RASCALS. Straight up 3rd rate/poor quality batteries from 3rd world countries. Lets face it, in a world that contains millions of ebikes (and their batteries), isn't kind of weird to see “7 orders/sold” on the 3rd world websites listing??
In closing, for those of you who only ride 20 or 30 miles per week, etc: you need to follow a different mindset than I do with my daily charging up to 100% on multiple batteries. For your situation, just charge your battery up to 70% or 80%, or so, and then top it off to 100% the day before/day of your ride. If you are interested in a very inexpensive volt/amp meter buy this item: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B093KTYG3G?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details I actually have this item installed on the handlebar area of 2 of my ebikes. I just use the “headlight” wiring. This only comes on when I use the headlight function. I highly recommend this simple device.
Well, I guess that's all. I hope that I have provided you with some good information.
 
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May I ask what your expected miles per battery are. Can you suggest a recommended aftermarket seller with Canondale Compatible batteries for a bosch performance class 3? As far a range, Not range per charge but your, range over the life of the battery. So not necessarily "born on date" of manufacture but number of miles you get over the life of the battery? Since my bike has an odometer, my Bosch 500, got exactly 1600 miles in 4 years. Thank you for your much appreciated buy new, buy American. It's details like this that indepth reports like yours make this site priceless. Thank you for taking the time for the great review brother. I wish you many happy miles of riding!
 

Sic Puppy

Member
May I ask what your expected miles per battery are. Can you suggest a recommended aftermarket seller with Canondale Compatible batteries for a bosch performance class 3? As far a range, Not range per charge but your, range over the life of the battery. So not necessarily "born on date" of manufacture but number of miles you get over the life of the battery? Since my bike has an odometer, my Bosch 500, got exactly 1600 miles in 4 years. Thank you for your much appreciated buy new, buy American. It's details like this that indepth reports like yours make this site priceless. Thank you for taking the time for the great review brother. I wish you many happy miles of riding!
First:
To Ebiker01; "3rd battery wen ?"
I haven't answered your posting because I'm not sure what (if any) response you are looking for. So...
Now, onward and upward.

To Contro Killerz;
First of all, thanks for the kind words. I have quite a few threads posted on this forum. Many of them are quite long-winded but, hopefully, 100% informative to the viewer. I judge the acceptance of those offerings by the number of views each receives. I get very few replies. However, if I do, like yours, they are mostly of a positive nature. That, in and of itself, is my best motivator. And what is my own personal all time favorite posted thread? This one: https://electricbikereview.com/forums/threads/3-of-4-my-2020-swift-torque-sensor-bottom-bracket-price-is-200-00.40097/ [WhoseYerDaddy?? I'mYerDaddy!!]
Sorry, I kinda got carried away.. On a stretcher.. Wearing a straight jacket..

In reviewing this response to your posting, I must apologize in advance for commandeering this space to provide too much extra info. I had intended to do a separate “battery item” posting over on the ArielRider forum. This posting allows me to kill 2 (or even 3) birdies with one shot. Plus, it is on the M2S forum. So, here goes.

As for your "Can you suggest a recommended aftermarket seller with Canondale Compatible batteries for a bosch performance class 3?" It is completely over my head. I have to suggest the lady (Jenny Mao) referenced in this (and other) post. She will provide you with quality up-to-date honest information. So, even if you chose to purchase a battery elsewhere, you will at least have all the pertinent data, thanks to Jenny Mao.

By the way, “born on date” refers to the day that the item is delivered to my front door, be it an entire ebike with battery included, or just a stand-alone battery purchase.
Your question: “number of miles you get over the life of the battery?” is a difficult item to pin down.
The 2 aforementioned, and now deceased (rest in peace) 48v/16ah batteries-- both M2S(ebike brand) items, received, by far, the most abuse of any of my many batteries. And they took a lickin' and just kept on tickin'. I did everything, and I do mean everything, wrong/incorrectly, practically from their day 1.
I would run the first battery down until it shut itself/the ebike off. I would then insert/use the second battery for the remainder of the 50 mile ride back to the condo. And, I did this almost daily, for 2 years. The horror, the horror. On a 98 degree/20 degree day, I would allow them cool down/warm up time of only about 15 minutes prior to hooking up the M2S-supplied 5amp charger.

And even then, I was apparently doing things back-azz-wards. I would connect the charger to the battery and THEN plug in the charger to the 110volt house outlet. It seems the correct procedure (as provided by LUNA website in 2022) is " Make sure you plug in your charger to outlet before battery. When LED is red it means the power is on."

So, you see, even 5 years (since Oct. 2017) into my ebike experience, I am still learning. A few sentences back, I mentioned the M2S-supplied 5amp charger. Their connector is the very commonly used DC 2.1mm barrel item. I charged both of those M2S batteries with the supplied 5amp charger(s) for 4 years. Never had a problem. The general consensus these days (in 2022) is that the 2.1 connector cannot adequately handle 5amps (or 4amps).

Nowadays, I have grown tired of chasing “the battery issue” and just charge all of my batteries, whether 48v or 52v, at 3amps and at 100%. That setting takes 6 hours to do a full charge from “1 battery” remaining icon (as seen on your ebikes cdu display). It is easy for me to keep an eye on the charging station (5 chargers total available for use) because it is located in a corner of the living room (1 bedroom condo) and only about 6 feet from my couch. Eazy Breezy..

Now, back to your question “number of miles you get over the life of the battery?”. I would have to guesstimate, even with excessive abuse, 17,650 miles per battery until the final demise of same. My M2S Kush @21,000 miles.. My M2S R750(WhiteyFord) @14,300 miles= 35,300 total miles and divide that # by 2= 17,650 miles per battery. I have used other batteries on these 2 beasts,too. However, I'd be splitting hairs to get down to that nitty of a gritty. But, you get a pretty good idea.
Also, to be fair, my riding, though skirting the foothills of the Rocky mountains, is 99.5% flat terrain. The bike paths I abuse follow alongside creeks, etc. So, if your own riding area consists of lots of climbing, you will have substantially lower “mileage” numbers.

You said your BOSCH battery has 1,600 total miles over a 4-year period. That gives you 11+ years to save up for a replacement battery. Either way, you will have definitely gotten your $$$ worth.
Also, I just noticed something on your posting: my Bosch 500, got exactly 1600 miles in 4 years. The word “got” caught my eye. Are you saying that, @1600 miles, your BOSCH battery has expired? If so, something is very, very wrong.

As for my “Buy in America” mindset, even that has limits/exceptions. Case in point:
AVOID THIS USA COMPANY: https://electricbikepros.com/produc...9&_sid=497828e02&_ss=r&variant=42056276312299
I made the mistake of attempting to purchase a 48v/20ah Reention Dorado (outer casing) battery from them. It was an absolute goat-rope of an experience.
In reality, they serve only as a “middle man” to some 3rd rate supplier located in a 3rd world country. Your order will be taken.. Your $$$ ($500, $600,etc.) will be withdrawn from your account.. And then, the fun REALLY begins.


You will wait. and wait. and wait. Eventually, you will email the company. They will give you the run around over and over. So, you decide to CANCEL the frigging order. Again, you will be given the same-o, same-o.. Excuses. Smoke and mirrors. Oh, and also, after making your purchase, you will eventually scroll down to the “cancel an order” section. There you will see “$100.00 cancellation fee imposed” for same.
What these varmits are doing is accumulating enough orders to make one large purchase/shipment from “over there”. In the meantime, you are treated to
CircusCircus as you attempt to actually take possession of the battery. Do not waste your time/energy in a pissing contest. You will finally (as I did) contact your credit card company/bank and file a complaint/request for full refund from this company. You will only need to supply a few back-and-forth emails from the guilty company to justify/verify the wrongdoings on their part. Your $$ will be refunded to your account (after a quick investigation). By the way, I am “debit card only” and I was still able to get my $500+ returned to my account. As for the company: they whined and complained (to me-via email), but not too much.

So, as I constantly state during my many, many EBReview posts: Learn From My Mistakes.. Or Not..

Finally, to throw yet another twist into this particular thread string, my “Buy from American Companies in the USA” is truly heartfelt, there is always an exception. In this case it is the aforementioned Jenny Mao https://electricbikereview.com/foru...es-surface-604-ncm-rize-magnum-aventon.42705/
This particular thread of hers is now (as of Oct. 2022) 13 pages long. This gal/her company is DaBomb. Her group of minions consists of some of the most popular/notorious/dubious/devious EBReview posters. And I am proud to now include myself in that convoluted gangsta posse.

I currently am awaiting the arrival of a 52v/20ah Reention Dorado battery from her. It will be used on my 2018 M2S KUSH(48v), 2019 M2S R750(48v) and the 2021 ArielRider(brand) X52(model)(52v). That means that I will be mixing the following batteries:
  1. 48v/14.5ah--14.5? What the hell is up wit dat?
  2. 48v/21ah
  3. 52v/18ah
  4. 52v/20ah
in no particular order on all of the aforementioned ebikes.


Since I always do 50 miles rides, and always carry 2, and sometimes 3 (for the ArielRider X52 ebike), batteries, I don't really pay much attention to the battery icon info displayed on my cdu. Instead, at the 25 mile (or so) point, I simply stop, take 2 minutes to swap out batteries, and proceed with the remainder of my 50 miler.
[SideNote: this is the low side-profile laptop computer backpack that I have been using for 3+ years: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0732ZFF2M/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1
It is perfecto for the 18” long Reeention Dorado battery casing. I have also mounted a CamelBak 100oz water bladder in it.]

I seriously considered purchasing a 60v battery in lieu of the actually purchased 52v/20ah unit. I emailed Jenny Mao and she responded that her company is still working on an acceptable BMS interface, so, for the time being, no, no 60v units . The 2 following YT videos will explain my “60volt” interest. But, I would only be able to use it on the 52v ArielRider ebike.
Here is a very interesting YT video(s). It concerns my X52 ebike, but it is saying ALOT about “mixing” different voltage ratings, controllers, etc in a very basic sort of way-- which is why I am so unconcerned about mixing battery voltages.
and then there is this one, too:

In regards to the X52 ebike: though I carry 3 batteries total, I do NOT utilize the aforementioned laptop backpack. Instead, I store the extra 2 batteries inside the frame installed seat/mailbox (yes, an actual mailbox). Too much fun.
Again, Contro Killerz (that name is BadAzz), I apologize for commandeering your posting to put out all of this info, but it had to go somewhere. Works for me..
 

Muso

New Member
Region
USA
City
Hollywood
Great info, thank you for posting it! Although your use case is far different from mine (you probably rode more yesterday than I have in the last two weeks), any real-world* battery info is great to have. And I tend to be a bit long-winded too, so I appreciate all the details lol.

*Probably more like dystopian world, from the point of view of your batteries haha
 

snipechief

Member
Region
USA
City
Piney Flats
Excellent write up OP. Just starting out on my ebike journey, and learning a lot.
 

tomjasz

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Minnesnowta
You had me until the USA source for chargers. One Grin charger could do it all and more for the $$ spent. But I’m glad those high return chargers have worked out for you. I have 3 that lasted less than a year and with relatively low use. I bought my first Satiator very soon after their introduction. My former shop sold them. Current pricing seems ridiculously high but in the long run, for me, they solved a weak link. Lots of chargers suck IME.
 

Sic Puppy

Member
You had me until the USA source for chargers. One Grin charger could do it all and more for the $$ spent. But I’m glad those high return chargers have worked out for you. I have 3 that lasted less than a year and with relatively low use. I bought my first Satiator very soon after their introduction. My former shop sold them. Current pricing seems ridiculously high but in the long run, for me, they solved a weak link. Lots of chargers suck IME.

I'm back,

Maybe I should change my “name” from Sic Puppy to Babylon, as in Babble On. Duh on me. But, here goes.

In regards to the LUNA chargers:
I purchased the 1st 48v unit in early July 2020. LUNA sent me a “thank you” in the form of a $50.00 gift card email. So I went ahead and ordered the 2nd 48v charger 2 weeks later.
I used both chargers for 11 months on multiple batteries without any problems. At that 11 month mark, I bought a new 48v battery. It was while using that new battery the 1st charger went into “duh” mode.
I contacted LUNA via email. Their response was that the charger was almost 1 year old and all they could do is offer me a $30 discount on a new unit. They also stated the charger cannot be repaired. Needless to say, a $100 item which only lasts for 11 months, is not something ANY customer ever wants to hear.
So, I sent LUNA a more focused email and their response to THAT email was basically “Excuse me, but with that attitude, we are not going to do anything about your situation”. At that time they also told me the charger only has a 90-day warranty (try finding that bit of info on their website).

The defective(not) charger sat unused for about 15 days. At that time I actually formed a thought and decided to experiment with the charger at different settings. At 1amp, all was normal (red light on..battery charging).. At 2amp, all was normal.. At 3amp, all was normal.. At 4amp, nothing/nada/ zilch. The green light just stayed on.. At 5amp, same results as at 4amp..

So, it was at this time I was introduced to the fact that batteries can (and do) have a “limiter”. Some are at 5amps max. This would be why my two trusty M2S supplied units batteries/ebikes ALSO included a really nice 5amp aluminum-casing charger. Since I was ignorant to the fact that not all 48v batteries are created equal, I had automatically placed the blame on the LUNA charger.

And, what REALLY pizzed me off about that little interaction with LUNA (back in June of 2021) is that they should have offered up the possibility of a battery limiter (built-in to the battery) as reason for the chargers behavior. After all, they are supposed to be the knowledgeable professionals. I am but a humble, naive, ignorant customer. A quick test at that time would have solved the problem.

And for viewers of this posting: Most ebikes come with a 2amp or a 3amp charger. That is not to mean the ebike battery definitely has the aforementioned “limiter” installed-- it just means the ebike companies are saving a few $$$. I can't fault them for that. However, read on.

Case in point: My mighty mite beast, a 2021 ArielRider X52 ebike, came equipped with a 52v/18ah battery and a 3amp charger. Since the stock charger has a plastic outer case (I am NOT a fan because they tend to get warm-- sometimes too warm), I decided to buy a better charger, but not a LUNA brand unit.

I eventually came across the 52v ECO charger, at $120.00.. I thought it was probably the same as the $100.00 LUNA charger, only black instead of blue-- and with a $20 “upcharge”. However, I was to discover the ECO charger has a “on/off” switch (that I don't use- just something else to wear out), while the LUNA charger doesn't.

I bought the ECO charger, set it up at 100% and 5amp, plugged it into the ArielRider 52v battery and NOTHING- just like the LUNA had done. So, I turned everything off, reset the charger at 100%/1amp: everything worked just fine and dandy. Same at the 2amp setting. Same at the 3amp setting. At the 4amp setting NADA. At the 5amp setting NADA. My 52v beastie battery had a built-in 3amp limiter. Or did it??
I zipped off a ??? email to ArielRider. And their response? Not the slightest idea.. Clueless.. Eventually, I did receive conformation, from Jenny Mao of all people, that yes, the ArielRider 52v/18ah battery has a 3amp limiter. Ya see, it is crap like the LUNA interaction AND the ArielRider interaction that just drives me bat-s*it crazy. But, boy, do they readily accept my/your hardly earned $$. It is why people like Jenny Mao (and M2S ebike company) are such a welcome godsend in “ebike world”.

Something that really catches my attention is that these multi-chargers have only a few examples of their style out there in ebike world. I appreciate just having the multi-option. Imagine your re-action if you decided to buy a more powerful charger (amp-wise) only to discover, after the fact, that your lil' ebike battery has a limiter.. No refunds either, baby.. So, go with a multi-..

In regards to the Satiater (talk dirty- I love it), the $300+ price just seems kind of hefty, at least for my tastes.

Finally, in closing, the two LUNA 48v chargers (now both 28 months old) and the ECO 52v charger (now 15 months old) have all been used on a daily basis (at 100%/3amp) and worked flawlessly. However, if/when the LUNA unit(s) should decide to expire, I will replace with the ECO 48v version of its 52v charger. Why? Because LUNA showed its true colors and they ain't BLUE..
 
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Sic Puppy

Member
You nearly spent that…
Hmmm.. I didn't really take a close look at that Grin Satiator. Can it charge multiple batteries ( two 48v units and also one 52v unit) at the same time? If so, then yes, it would have been an ideal charger for my uses.
 

tomjasz

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Minnesnowta
Hmmm.. I didn't really take a close look at that Grin Satiator. Can it charge multiple batteries ( two 48v units and also one 52v unit) at the same time? If so, then yes, it would have been an ideal charger for my uses.
No, multiple voltages but not at the same time. I use two convinced they have extended battery life.
 

Sic Puppy

Member
Me again,

I just want to use this “reply” to give an update on the 52v/20ah Reention Dorado battery, which was mentioned up at the initial posting of this thread. I thought about posting it over on the Jenny Mao battery info thread but, that location, at 13+ pages, would just allow it to get lost in the crowd.

I actually purchased this item and here is how things went:

a). I sent Jenny Mao an “information request” email.
She asked me to send her all the pertinent info, as it applied to my ebike (brand/model/year/current size and power of battery, etc).

b). After receiving the info, she gave me some battery options available for my particular ebike (she also told me yes, the original battery did have a built-in 3amp charge limiter-- something ArielRider Home Office did NOT know) and the $$ of those options, with and without a charger. I could choose the type charger-to-battery connector, whether I wanted a USB connector, and a few other options.

c). I selected the 52v/20ah battery with the DC2.1mm connector, and without charger.
Jenny told me that a flat blade in-line fuse (usually 30 or 40amp) was not included on this size because of space constraints.. Not too happy about that, but not a deal breaker, either.

d). Jenny informed me $$$ payment was required to be via an Alibaba or Aliexpress website account:
[[ Pls send me registered email for your Alibaba or Aliexpress account, will bill the order to your account.
I already got your shipping address in early emails, pls also send your phone number, only for delivery use. ]]

Since I was already a registered (and frequent) buyer through the Aliexpress website, this stipulation was a no-brainer.

If you, the reader, haven't already been indoctrinated to this venue, and want to be registered there, check out this item on their website: https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2255800442274337.html? I actually ordered this item in size 31.8mm/620mm(24.4 inches). It is absolutely beautiful. However, due to the configuration of stuff on my handlebar, it was 1 inch too short. Someday, I will definitely mount it. Anyway, an inexpensive item such as this bar will get you started as a customer on the website. They have a bazillion bike items..
By the way, it will take 2 or 3 weeks for anything you order from AliExpress to actually arrive at your front door. You will be able to track the items progress as it makes its way from China to you.

e). I placed the order on Sept.13th. (per Jenny: we have each battery new customized and tested a cycle of charging and discharging before shipment.). The battery was built, tested, and then shipped on Sept 23rd.

f). On Oct 5th, I received an email from FedEx (Calif.) notifying me that they now had the package and to expect delivery on Oct 9th. It arrived at my location on Oct 7th.

g). A quick check of the battery “green light” bar showed 4 (out of 4). I checked the internal battery info with my trusty $10 voltmeter (at setting L 14) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B093KTYG3G?, as mounted on my X52 ebike beast: charge was 46%.. voltage was 51.6.. I will do a 1amp slow charge to get it up to 100%/58.8 volts..

One way in which this particular shipment varied from my other Aliexpress purchases is that I was unable to track its shipping path, something which was a no-brainer in my other China purchases.
Thankfully, Jenny had forewarned me that “limbo” would be the name of the game until FedEx had actually received the package [ real estimated delivery date will be updated only after the package is custom cleared in US in about a week. So please wait about more 10-14days for the final delivery. Thank you! ] .. It was 15 days in total, of which 12 days were “no mans land”, as far as the package location was concerned.
And that, sports fans, is how my adventure unfolded.

Tomorrow, I plan to do an easy 10 mile ride using this new battery just to wake it up. I will then swap it out for another battery. When I return to the condo, I will give it another slow recharge @ 1amp to 100%. I may even leave the combo hooked up overnight just because.. I have read on some internet locations that this is actually a good idea because it allows every individual cell to “settle down” and promotes uniformity. I figure 1amp is the best option.

Hope you all have enjoyed the ride.

Dat's all, folks.
 
Last edited:
First:
To Ebiker01; "3rd battery wen ?"
I haven't answered your posting because I'm not sure what (if any) response you are looking for. So...
Now, onward and upward.

To Contro Killerz;
First of all, thanks for the kind words. I have quite a few threads posted on this forum. Many of them are quite long-winded but, hopefully, 100% informative to the viewer. I judge the acceptance of those offerings by the number of views each receives. I get very few replies. However, if I do, like yours, they are mostly of a positive nature. That, in and of itself, is my best motivator. And what is my own personal all time favorite posted thread? This one: https://electricbikereview.com/forums/threads/3-of-4-my-2020-swift-torque-sensor-bottom-bracket-price-is-200-00.40097/ [WhoseYerDaddy?? I'mYerDaddy!!]
Sorry, I kinda got carried away.. On a stretcher.. Wearing a straight jacket..

In reviewing this response to your posting, I must apologize in advance for commandeering this space to provide too much extra info. I had intended to do a separate “battery item” posting over on the ArielRider forum. This posting allows me to kill 2 (or even 3) birdies with one shot. Plus, it is on the M2S forum. So, here goes.

As for your "Can you suggest a recommended aftermarket seller with Canondale Compatible batteries for a bosch performance class 3?" It is completely over my head. I have to suggest the lady (Jenny Mao) referenced in this (and other) post. She will provide you with quality up-to-date honest information. So, even if you chose to purchase a battery elsewhere, you will at least have all the pertinent data, thanks to Jenny Mao.

By the way, “born on date” refers to the day that the item is delivered to my front door, be it an entire ebike with battery included, or just a stand-alone battery purchase.
Your question: “number of miles you get over the life of the battery?” is a difficult item to pin down.
The 2 aforementioned, and now deceased (rest in peace) 48v/16ah batteries-- both M2S(ebike brand) items, received, by far, the most abuse of any of my many batteries. And they took a lickin' and just kept on tickin'. I did everything, and I do mean everything, wrong/incorrectly, practically from their day 1.
I would run the first battery down until it shut itself/the ebike off. I would then insert/use the second battery for the remainder of the 50 mile ride back to the condo. And, I did this almost daily, for 2 years. The horror, the horror. On a 98 degree/20 degree day, I would allow them cool down/warm up time of only about 15 minutes prior to hooking up the M2S-supplied 5amp charger.

And even then, I was apparently doing things back-azz-wards. I would connect the charger to the battery and THEN plug in the charger to the 110volt house outlet. It seems the correct procedure (as provided by LUNA website in 2022) is " Make sure you plug in your charger to outlet before battery. When LED is red it means the power is on."

So, you see, even 5 years (since Oct. 2017) into my ebike experience, I am still learning. A few sentences back, I mentioned the M2S-supplied 5amp charger. Their connector is the very commonly used DC 2.1mm barrel item. I charged both of those M2S batteries with the supplied 5amp charger(s) for 4 years. Never had a problem. The general consensus these days (in 2022) is that the 2.1 connector cannot adequately handle 5amps (or 4amps).

Nowadays, I have grown tired of chasing “the battery issue” and just charge all of my batteries, whether 48v or 52v, at 3amps and at 100%. That setting takes 6 hours to do a full charge from “1 battery” remaining icon (as seen on your ebikes cdu display). It is easy for me to keep an eye on the charging station (5 chargers total available for use) because it is located in a corner of the living room (1 bedroom condo) and only about 6 feet from my couch. Eazy Breezy..

Now, back to your question “number of miles you get over the life of the battery?”. I would have to guesstimate, even with excessive abuse, 17,650 miles per battery until the final demise of same. My M2S Kush @21,000 miles.. My M2S R750(WhiteyFord) @14,300 miles= 35,300 total miles and divide that # by 2= 17,650 miles per battery. I have used other batteries on these 2 beasts,too. However, I'd be splitting hairs to get down to that nitty of a gritty. But, you get a pretty good idea.
Also, to be fair, my riding, though skirting the foothills of the Rocky mountains, is 99.5% flat terrain. The bike paths I abuse follow alongside creeks, etc. So, if your own riding area consists of lots of climbing, you will have substantially lower “mileage” numbers.

You said your BOSCH battery has 1,600 total miles over a 4-year period. That gives you 11+ years to save up for a replacement battery. Either way, you will have definitely gotten your $$$ worth.
Also, I just noticed something on your posting: my Bosch 500, got exactly 1600 miles in 4 years. The word “got” caught my eye. Are you saying that, @1600 miles, your BOSCH battery has expired? If so, something is very, very wrong.

As for my “Buy in America” mindset, even that has limits/exceptions. Case in point:
AVOID THIS USA COMPANY: https://electricbikepros.com/produc...9&_sid=497828e02&_ss=r&variant=42056276312299
I made the mistake of attempting to purchase a 48v/20ah Reention Dorado (outer casing) battery from them. It was an absolute goat-rope of an experience.
In reality, they serve only as a “middle man” to some 3rd rate supplier located in a 3rd world country. Your order will be taken.. Your $$$ ($500, $600,etc.) will be withdrawn from your account.. And then, the fun REALLY begins.


You will wait. and wait. and wait. Eventually, you will email the company. They will give you the run around over and over. So, you decide to CANCEL the frigging order. Again, you will be given the same-o, same-o.. Excuses. Smoke and mirrors. Oh, and also, after making your purchase, you will eventually scroll down to the “cancel an order” section. There you will see “$100.00 cancellation fee imposed” for same.
What these varmits are doing is accumulating enough orders to make one large purchase/shipment from “over there”. In the meantime, you are treated to
CircusCircus as you attempt to actually take possession of the battery. Do not waste your time/energy in a pissing contest. You will finally (as I did) contact your credit card company/bank and file a complaint/request for full refund from this company. You will only need to supply a few back-and-forth emails from the guilty company to justify/verify the wrongdoings on their part. Your $$ will be refunded to your account (after a quick investigation). By the way, I am “debit card only” and I was still able to get my $500+ returned to my account. As for the company: they whined and complained (to me-via email), but not too much.

So, as I constantly state during my many, many EBReview posts: Learn From My Mistakes.. Or Not..

Finally, to throw yet another twist into this particular thread string, my “Buy from American Companies in the USA” is truly heartfelt, there is always an exception. In this case it is the aforementioned Jenny Mao https://electricbikereview.com/foru...es-surface-604-ncm-rize-magnum-aventon.42705/
This particular thread of hers is now (as of Oct. 2022) 13 pages long. This gal/her company is DaBomb. Her group of minions consists of some of the most popular/notorious/dubious/devious EBReview posters. And I am proud to now include myself in that convoluted gangsta posse.

I currently am awaiting the arrival of a 52v/20ah Reention Dorado battery from her. It will be used on my 2018 M2S KUSH(48v), 2019 M2S R750(48v) and the 2021 ArielRider(brand) X52(model)(52v). That means that I will be mixing the following batteries:
  1. 48v/14.5ah--14.5? What the hell is up wit dat?
  2. 48v/21ah
  3. 52v/18ah
  4. 52v/20ah
in no particular order on all of the aforementioned ebikes.


Since I always do 50 miles rides, and always carry 2, and sometimes 3 (for the ArielRider X52 ebike), batteries, I don't really pay much attention to the battery icon info displayed on my cdu. Instead, at the 25 mile (or so) point, I simply stop, take 2 minutes to swap out batteries, and proceed with the remainder of my 50 miler.
[SideNote: this is the low side-profile laptop computer backpack that I have been using for 3+ years: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0732ZFF2M/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1
It is perfecto for the 18” long Reeention Dorado battery casing. I have also mounted a CamelBak 100oz water bladder in it.]

I seriously considered purchasing a 60v battery in lieu of the actually purchased 52v/20ah unit. I emailed Jenny Mao and she responded that her company is still working on an acceptable BMS interface, so, for the time being, no, no 60v units . The 2 following YT videos will explain my “60volt” interest. But, I would only be able to use it on the 52v ArielRider ebike.
Here is a very interesting YT video(s). It concerns my X52 ebike, but it is saying ALOT about “mixing” different voltage ratings, controllers, etc in a very basic sort of way-- which is why I am so unconcerned about mixing battery voltages.
and then there is this one, too:

In regards to the X52 ebike: though I carry 3 batteries total, I do NOT utilize the aforementioned laptop backpack. Instead, I store the extra 2 batteries inside the frame installed seat/mailbox (yes, an actual mailbox). Too much fun.
Again, Contro Killerz (that name is BadAzz), I apologize for commandeering your posting to put out all of this info, but it had to go somewhere. Works for me..
I took your sage advice, it's far too expensive an item, to risk taking the " eBay UK" used battery. Lol, I REI wanted $760 +$76 tax+$80, $900! I managed to find a Local shop and saved
First:
To Ebiker01; "3rd battery wen ?"
I haven't answered your posting because I'm not sure what (if any) response you are looking for. So...
Now, onward and upward.

To Contro Killerz;
First of all, thanks for the kind words. I have quite a few threads posted on this forum. Many of them are quite long-winded but, hopefully, 100% informative to the viewer. I judge the acceptance of those offerings by the number of views each receives. I get very few replies. However, if I do, like yours, they are mostly of a positive nature. That, in and of itself, is my best motivator. And what is my own personal all time favorite posted thread? This one: https://electricbikereview.com/forums/threads/3-of-4-my-2020-swift-torque-sensor-bottom-bracket-price-is-200-00.40097/ [WhoseYerDaddy?? I'mYerDaddy!!]
Sorry, I kinda got carried away.. On a stretcher.. Wearing a straight jacket..

In reviewing this response to your posting, I must apologize in advance for commandeering this space to provide too much extra info. I had intended to do a separate “battery item” posting over on the ArielRider forum. This posting allows me to kill 2 (or even 3) birdies with one shot. Plus, it is on the M2S forum. So, here goes.

As for your "Can you suggest a recommended aftermarket seller with Canondale Compatible batteries for a bosch performance class 3?" It is completely over my head. I have to suggest the lady (Jenny Mao) referenced in this (and other) post. She will provide you with quality up-to-date honest information. So, even if you chose to purchase a battery elsewhere, you will at least have all the pertinent data, thanks to Jenny Mao.

By the way, “born on date” refers to the day that the item is delivered to my front door, be it an entire ebike with battery included, or just a stand-alone battery purchase.
Your question: “number of miles you get over the life of the battery?” is a difficult item to pin down.
The 2 aforementioned, and now deceased (rest in peace) 48v/16ah batteries-- both M2S(ebike brand) items, received, by far, the most abuse of any of my many batteries. And they took a lickin' and just kept on tickin'. I did everything, and I do mean everything, wrong/incorrectly, practically from their day 1.
I would run the first battery down until it shut itself/the ebike off. I would then insert/use the second battery for the remainder of the 50 mile ride back to the condo. And, I did this almost daily, for 2 years. The horror, the horror. On a 98 degree/20 degree day, I would allow them cool down/warm up time of only about 15 minutes prior to hooking up the M2S-supplied 5amp charger.

And even then, I was apparently doing things back-azz-wards. I would connect the charger to the battery and THEN plug in the charger to the 110volt house outlet. It seems the correct procedure (as provided by LUNA website in 2022) is " Make sure you plug in your charger to outlet before battery. When LED is red it means the power is on."

So, you see, even 5 years (since Oct. 2017) into my ebike experience, I am still learning. A few sentences back, I mentioned the M2S-supplied 5amp charger. Their connector is the very commonly used DC 2.1mm barrel item. I charged both of those M2S batteries with the supplied 5amp charger(s) for 4 years. Never had a problem. The general consensus these days (in 2022) is that the 2.1 connector cannot adequately handle 5amps (or 4amps).

Nowadays, I have grown tired of chasing “the battery issue” and just charge all of my batteries, whether 48v or 52v, at 3amps and at 100%. That setting takes 6 hours to do a full charge from “1 battery” remaining icon (as seen on your ebikes cdu display). It is easy for me to keep an eye on the charging station (5 chargers total available for use) because it is located in a corner of the living room (1 bedroom condo) and only about 6 feet from my couch. Eazy Breezy..

Now, back to your question “number of miles you get over the life of the battery?”. I would have to guesstimate, even with excessive abuse, 17,650 miles per battery until the final demise of same. My M2S Kush @21,000 miles.. My M2S R750(WhiteyFord) @14,300 miles= 35,300 total miles and divide that # by 2= 17,650 miles per battery. I have used other batteries on these 2 beasts,too. However, I'd be splitting hairs to get down to that nitty of a gritty. But, you get a pretty good idea.
Also, to be fair, my riding, though skirting the foothills of the Rocky mountains, is 99.5% flat terrain. The bike paths I abuse follow alongside creeks, etc. So, if your own riding area consists of lots of climbing, you will have substantially lower “mileage” numbers.

You said your BOSCH battery has 1,600 total miles over a 4-year period. That gives you 11+ years to save up for a replacement battery. Either way, you will have definitely gotten your $$$ worth.
Also, I just noticed something on your posting: my Bosch 500, got exactly 1600 miles in 4 years. The word “got” caught my eye. Are you saying that, @1600 miles, your BOSCH battery has expired? If so, something is very, very wrong.

As for my “Buy in America” mindset, even that has limits/exceptions. Case in point:
AVOID THIS USA COMPANY: https://electricbikepros.com/produc...9&_sid=497828e02&_ss=r&variant=42056276312299
I made the mistake of attempting to purchase a 48v/20ah Reention Dorado (outer casing) battery from them. It was an absolute goat-rope of an experience.
In reality, they serve only as a “middle man” to some 3rd rate supplier located in a 3rd world country. Your order will be taken.. Your $$$ ($500, $600,etc.) will be withdrawn from your account.. And then, the fun REALLY begins.


You will wait. and wait. and wait. Eventually, you will email the company. They will give you the run around over and over. So, you decide to CANCEL the frigging order. Again, you will be given the same-o, same-o.. Excuses. Smoke and mirrors. Oh, and also, after making your purchase, you will eventually scroll down to the “cancel an order” section. There you will see “$100.00 cancellation fee imposed” for same.
What these varmits are doing is accumulating enough orders to make one large purchase/shipment from “over there”. In the meantime, you are treated to
CircusCircus as you attempt to actually take possession of the battery. Do not waste your time/energy in a pissing contest. You will finally (as I did) contact your credit card company/bank and file a complaint/request for full refund from this company. You will only need to supply a few back-and-forth emails from the guilty company to justify/verify the wrongdoings on their part. Your $$ will be refunded to your account (after a quick investigation). By the way, I am “debit card only” and I was still able to get my $500+ returned to my account. As for the company: they whined and complained (to me-via email), but not too much.

So, as I constantly state during my many, many EBReview posts: Learn From My Mistakes.. Or Not..

Finally, to throw yet another twist into this particular thread string, my “Buy from American Companies in the USA” is truly heartfelt, there is always an exception. In this case it is the aforementioned Jenny Mao https://electricbikereview.com/foru...es-surface-604-ncm-rize-magnum-aventon.42705/
This particular thread of hers is now (as of Oct. 2022) 13 pages long. This gal/her company is DaBomb. Her group of minions consists of some of the most popular/notorious/dubious/devious EBReview posters. And I am proud to now include myself in that convoluted gangsta posse.

I currently am awaiting the arrival of a 52v/20ah Reention Dorado battery from her. It will be used on my 2018 M2S KUSH(48v), 2019 M2S R750(48v) and the 2021 ArielRider(brand) X52(model)(52v). That means that I will be mixing the following batteries:
  1. 48v/14.5ah--14.5? What the hell is up wit dat?
  2. 48v/21ah
  3. 52v/18ah
  4. 52v/20ah
in no particular order on all of the aforementioned ebikes.


Since I always do 50 miles rides, and always carry 2, and sometimes 3 (for the ArielRider X52 ebike), batteries, I don't really pay much attention to the battery icon info displayed on my cdu. Instead, at the 25 mile (or so) point, I simply stop, take 2 minutes to swap out batteries, and proceed with the remainder of my 50 miler.
[SideNote: this is the low side-profile laptop computer backpack that I have been using for 3+ years: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0732ZFF2M/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1
It is perfecto for the 18” long Reeention Dorado battery casing. I have also mounted a CamelBak 100oz water bladder in it.]

I seriously considered purchasing a 60v battery in lieu of the actually purchased 52v/20ah unit. I emailed Jenny Mao and she responded that her company is still working on an acceptable BMS interface, so, for the time being, no, no 60v units . The 2 following YT videos will explain my “60volt” interest. But, I would only be able to use it on the 52v ArielRider ebike.
Here is a very interesting YT video(s). It concerns my X52 ebike, but it is saying ALOT about “mixing” different voltage ratings, controllers, etc in a very basic sort of way-- which is why I am so unconcerned about mixing battery voltages.
and then there is this one, too:

In regards to the X52 ebike: though I carry 3 batteries total, I do NOT utilize the aforementioned laptop backpack. Instead, I store the extra 2 batteries inside the frame installed seat/mailbox (yes, an actual mailbox). Too much fun.
Again, Contro Killerz (that name is BadAzz), I apologize for commandeering your posting to put out all of this info, but it had to go somewhere. Works for me..
 
I took your sage advice, it's far too expensive an item, to risk taking the " eBay UK" used battery. Lol, I REI wanted $760 +$76 tax+$80, $900! I managed to find a Local shop and saved. Have you considered a Blog? Your information while anecdotal, for the amount of ground literally and figuratively you cover is good reading and certainly in this regard concise. Consider your words will exist in cyberspace long after you are gone. I can still find reviews I wrote on MTBR.
I
I FINALLY killed my ebike battery.. times 2.. It is finally time to post a thread that answers the question that most novice ebike owners want an answer to: “Just how long can I expect the battery on my wonderful ebike toy to actually function correctly before needing to purchase a replacement unit?”. After all, the $600+ battery is by far, the most expensive component on a rear hub motor ebike. The motor comes in a distant 2nd at around $250.
I recently killed two of my batteries. Here is their past history:
BATTERY #1: 48volt/16ah.. Born on April 26, 2019.
Expired on Aug 23, 2022 (a lifespan of 1,195 days).
BATTERY #2: 48volt/16ah.. Born on July 11, 2019.
Expired on Sept 9, 2022 (a lifespan of 1,156 days).
Both of these batteries were originally M2S (ebike brand) https://shop.m2sbikes.com/? components. I would guesstimate that during the past 3+ years, I have charged each of these batteries at least 900 times, each time to 100% charge.
Battery #1 is actually a replacement provided by the wonderful folks at M2S because I thought the original item, delivered on April 30, 2018 with the rest of the 2018 KUSH (model, now known as 750FS) rear hub fat tire ebike had, at the 1-year mark, crapped out. Not so much “crapped out”, but rather experienced a reduced mileage-per-charge (40 instead of the original 55 to 60).
Back then I was not familiar with the idiosyncrasy known as “a full 4 seasons (summer, fall, winter, spring)” of battery fluctuation as a result of 100 degree temperatures, as well as 12 degree temperatures-- batteries do NOT like/appreciate either extreme. Therefore, as a result, the original power band is slowly reduced/degraded and mileage per charge suffers- for ever and ever. Both of the aforementioned batteries were down to 27 miles per charge, when used on the two M2S ebikes, at their final demise. However, when used on the ArielRider X52 ebike, only 14 miles per charge was attainable. Go figure.
M2S was really nice about my concerns that the original battery was defective. They just sent me a new battery (now known as battery #1) and I mailed the “defective” battery back to them. And that explains the one year time span (May 2018-April 2019) .End of that story.
Battery #2 came with my awesome 2019 M2S (brand) R750(model) rear hub fat tire ebike. I always refer to this ebike as WhiteyFord.
In regards to both of these batteries “stoppage”: they would charge up normally. However, when installed on the ebike and turned on, there would be an immediate (or very soon thereafter) shutdown of power. Since both of those batteries have an internal 40amp blade-type of fuse for protection, I checked that option . In both instances, the fuse was otay. That meant that enough of the individual internal cells had probably crapped out to then render the battery unusable.
You will find that there are companies out there who specialize in repairing these ebike batteries. What they will do is inspect/replace the defective cells, at a cost of around $400. That still leaves “X” number of the original cells still in use. What if, 3 months down the road, they decide to go titz up? Another outlay of $400 for replacement cells?? Just go ahead and buy a complete NEW replacement battery (my modus operandi). You will be ahead of the game in the long run. Plus, if like my situation, you have had many, many miles of usage from that original battery, then you have gotten your $$$ worth. Fer sure.
Let us proceed..
My daily ebike ride consists of 50 miles. I have been guilty of this activity since Summer 2018 (4+ years ago). Until the summer of 2020, the 2 batteries that recently keeled over were in daily use. To accomplish this distance, I always use 2 batteries-- 1 on the ebike and 1 stashed in my backpack. Depending on my state of mind, I will either stop at the 25 mile mark and swap out the units, or I will just continue riding until the first battery peters out and shuts down completely. I will then swap those rascals out. I may only need 15 miles from the replacement unit (to attain 50 total miles). I do this pretty much every day. If not every day, then at least 5 times per week. My batteries definitely earn their keep, so to speak. And, always tucked away in the nether regions of my lil peanut brain is “How long until this battery finally just keels over dead?”. Now I know. And so do you.
To be perfectly honest with you, I now have only 3 reliable batteries left with which to use for my daily 50 mile rides:
48volt/14.5ah battery, born on May 28, 2020 (842 days ago).
48volt/21ah battery, born on July 25, 2021 (419 days ago).
52Volt/18ah battery, born on Aug 5, 2021 (408 days ago).
As you can see, those 3 batteries are not nearly as old as the 2 deceased batteries (RIP). However, their time will come soon enough. So, what to do, what to do?? Order ANOTHER battery!! YaHoo!! Go Puppy, Go Puppy!! And, I did. More on that item later.
I guess that I keep straying from the intent of this particular thread subject, but that's otay.
Now, back on course:
Each of my batteries (and each of my 6 ebikes, too, for that matter) has a series of labels stuck to them:
Date of purchase..
Which ebike the battery belongs to..
The voltage/ah..
And, sadly, when available, date of death..

Each battery also has a color piece of tape stuck to the end cap for easy reference and as a place to jot down the miles used for that days ride. I also use black&white checkered duct tape wrapped around the charger input end of the two 52volt batteries. That visual reminder keeps me focused at charger usage time. The 52v charger also has that tape wrapped around its cable down near the connector. You can never to too careful when dealing with that part of ebike world.
As an interested ebike owner/potential buyer, you will encounter a never-ending barrage of ideas/opinions/expectations/encounters (like mine) as to the yin and yang of ebike battery maintenance. I, too, at one time, was one of those concerned folks. Then, finally, I just said SCREW IT. Nowadays I just give the batteries a 1 hour cool-down period (if from either 100 degree heat or 12 degree snow) and then I plug in the charger and let 'er rip, at 3amps, for 6 hours..
My daily modus operandi for my pesky batteries is to always begin the ride using the oldest battery on the shelf. After that decision, it is just a matter of which remaining battery to abuse. Remember, I had 5 batteries to choose from-- until the recent demise of those 2.
By the way, you will encounter much back-and-forth about “mixing” 48volt batteries/ebikes and 52volt batteries/ebikes. The reality is that it JUST DOESN'T MATTER. Sure, the “battery remaining” icon readings on your handlebar Computer Display Unit(CDU) might be off by a little, but not to worry. No smoke will appear from either the battery, the ebike motor, or the CDU. I used to actually get into the CDU menu and manually change the “voltage” option. However, when I realized just how minimal the the real difference was, I just left all my ebikes (two M2S brand 48volt ebikes AND the one 52volt ebike- a 2021 ArielRider X52) on the “48” display setting. Potato, potatoe.. Besides, my daily total miles ridden is really the only thing I care about.
Now, lets see.. You have seen just how long the top quality batteries in my ebikes have managed to survive my daily never-ending cycling escapades. By the way, the 2018 KUSH now has 21,000+ miles. The 2019 R750 has 15,000+ miles. The 2021 X52 has 8,000+ miles. So, I do get my $$$ worth out of my toyz. And herein lies another smattering of Words of Wisdom, as learned from my own interactions with aftermarket battery purchases..
I have purchased a battery from an overseas internet vendor on 2 separate occasions since 2019. Every instance was a really hard lesson learned. Should a situation occur, you are pretty much a screwed pooch as far as getting satisfaction/financial restitution from an institution ½ a world away. I sure learned some hard lessons. Ouch.
My initial advise to a potential battery buyer is to buy from an ebike company/dealer here in the USA. There is, most likely, going to be a few more $$$ spent for the purchase of the battery. You will, however, have piece of mind knowing that any kind of performance issue (from the battery) will be/should be taken care of promptly and with minimal hassle. After all, the USA company should have a decent Quality Control section.
I mentioned earlier in this posting that I had recently ordered yet another battery. The order was placed through this lady, Jenny Mao. The following is her EBReview thread, as posted on behalf of her company/employer: https://electricbikereview.com/forums/threads/reention-newly-upgrade-48v-25ah-36v-30ah-505l-interchangeable-for-ebikes-surface-604-ncm-rize-magnum-aventon.42705/ It was because of this thread, and the followup email communications with her concerning my potential purchase, that I went ahead and placed my order.
It is for the following: 52v/20ah Reention Dorado (it is the style of outer casing used on all on my ebikes), 18 inch battery length/14s4p Samsung 50E 21700 cell pack/5 holes/ 2 pin discharge port /DC2.1 barrel Charging Port&amp/30Amp BMS for max 1000w motor/with USB port/Battery+shipping cost to US $600, no extra customs. (I also had the option of buying other units, including a 48v/25ah battery for $700).
Jenny will offer you many options as to how you want YOUR new battery to be configured. Her company also offers JUICED (ebike brand) battery casings, so you JUICED owners have an option other than the JUICED website.
As for battery/charger connector items. Jenny offers the customer the choice of many different configurations. If you are interested in purchasing a compatible charger along with your battery purchase, their charger outer casing is finned aluminum instead of the cheapo plastic casing found on most chargers. Those plastic casings can get very warm, even hot. I learned a hard lesson on that matter very early in my ebike life (back in late 2017).
I also learned some interesting technical info from Jenny in regards to the charger output connector, specifically the DC2.1mm barrel unit. (it looks like a chrome .22 caliber bullet with a hole in the end); it is designed to be used by 1amp or 2amp or 3amp charger output. A 4amp or 5amp is considered to be too much of a strain on the 2.1connector/battery. So, while a 5amp charge will give your battery 100% in four hours, a 4amp charge takes five hours, and a 3amp charge takes six hours. Just goes to show you that life is definitely a trade-off.
In dealing with Jenny as it pertains to your particular ebike and its options: She will gather all of your information (ebike-wise) from you. She will then go research/find the options available to your situation. Quite the professional.
A word of advice from me: think of your ebike battery as an automobile gas tank. 48Volt/16ah= a sixteen gallon gas tank. 52volt/20ah= a twenty gallon gas tank. 48Volt/25ah= a twenty-five gallon gas tank. The 48volt-versus-52volt option is a trivial difference. Just expect to see 60volt batteries make an appearance in the future. That being the case, a 52volt battery will probably be compatible with the 60v unit. However, expect a 48volt battery to be too far out of parameter for a safe interaction. So, if at all possible ($$$ wise), go with the largest battery, both “volt” and “ah”.
By the way, I own the following aftermarket battery chargers:
Two 48v units (80%, 90%, 100%, and 1,2,3,4, or 5amp):
https://lunacycle.com/luna-charger-48v-advanced-300w-ebike-charger/
And one 52v unit ( also 80%, 90%, 100%, and 1,2,3,4, or 5amp) [I fixed this link on Sept.22]
https://cycles.eco/products/52v-advanced-300w-eco-charger-1-to-5a-80-90-100?variant=39355842953393
A SideNote: this 52v charger is also available from LUNA:
https://lunacycle.com/luna-charger-52v-advanced-300w-ebike-charger/
All of these specialty chargers have a great price-point.

So, you can use/abuse the crappy doodle out of these batteries and, if name brand ebike company quality units, they will just keep on ticking-- for thousands of days.
As for the 2 piece of chit batteries that I purchased from DHGate.com website and from AliXpress.com website: STAY FAR FAR AWAY FROM THOSE RASCALS. Straight up 3rd rate/poor quality batteries from 3rd world countries. Lets face it, in a world that contains millions of ebikes (and their batteries), isn't kind of weird to see “7 orders/sold” on the 3rd world websites listing??
In closing, for those of you who only ride 20 or 30 miles per week, etc: you need to follow a different mindset than I do with my daily charging up to 100% on multiple batteries. For your situation, just charge your battery up to 70% or 80%, or so, and then top it off to 100% the day before/day of your ride. If you are interested in a very inexpensive volt/amp meter buy this item: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B093KTYG3G?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details I actually have this item installed on the handlebar area of 2 of my ebikes. I just use the “headlight” wiring. This only comes on when I use the headlight function. I highly recommend this simple device.
Well, I guess that's all. I hope that I have provided you with some good information.
I took your sage advice, it's far too expensive an item, to risk taking the " eBay UK" used battery. Lol, I REI wanted $760 +$76 tax+$80, $900! I managed to find a Local shop and saved
 

tomjasz

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Minnesnowta
DC2.1mm connectors
You will be able to track the items progress as it makes its way from China to you.
Why DC 2.1 and limit yourself to 2A charging? To be safe that is the max.

AliExpress doesn’t ship FedEx. FedEx shipment go to a broker. That’s the limbo period.
I may even leave the combo hooked up overnight
Never! Especially with a new battery. There’s a reason every vendor suggests batteries not be charged unattended.
 

Sic Puppy

Member
Ok, Thanks for the good info. No overnighters fer sure. So far, I've done initially (1st charge) at 1amp. It took 8hours. 2nd charge was 3amps and right at 6 hours. From now on, it will be at 2amp(7 hours) or 3amp (6 hours) max. I'm really gonna baby this newest battery from the get-go. Today it will set idle so that it, like me, can think about the error of its' ways.

By the way, newest Jenny Mao 52v/20ah battery mileage (down to "1 bar remaining"):
a). 2021 ArielRiderX52, @ 8,000 miles and wearing Shinko 241 motorcycle tires, was 38 miles. Previous batteries (52v/18ah @33miles and 48v/20ah @25miles) were pretty much in line with this new battery, especially since they are both 1+ year old.
b). 2019 M2S R750(WhiteyFord), @15,000 miles. was 45 miles. Previous batteries (52v/18ah @42 miles and 48v/20ah @36 miles). So, a nice improvement on this ebike.
Also, the AR X52 is at least 30 pounds heavier than the M2S R750.
I'll just be using each battery (in rotation) to the 25-mile ride point and then swapping out for another battery to complete a 50+ miler.
 

tomjasz

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Minnesnowta
I have a habit of 3, 8-hour, charges on new batteries. just a practice from days of Luna's not-so-great BMS. And I still do occasional, maybe bi-monthly, 8-hour charges on daily use packs. But having two Satiators it's probably not needed. Just a habit from cheap charger days.
"1 bar remaining"
Bar displays are a 15 cent part. Multimeter readings for accuracy.
 

Sic Puppy

Member
Hi Contro_Killerz,
Sorry for the delay in responding to your post. It was clipped after the word “saved”. I didn't notice until today that it had continued on in full (in smaller fonts):

[ Have you considered a Blog? Your information while anecdotal, for the amount of ground literally and figuratively you cover is good reading and certainly in this regard concise. Consider your words will exist in cyberspace long after you are gone. I can still find reviews I wrote on MTBR. ]

As far as a blog:
I prefer to just post a new thread here at EBR as circumstances dictate. I may go for months before I have an “Einstein moment” (Larry, that is). Even then, it kind of rolls around in my lil' peanut brain for quite awhile prior to the actual writing of same.

Also, I feel comfortable using EBR to relay my ideas. Back in the day, I had also posted on another ebike forum. However, that location turned out to be a bottom feeder troll site. I have no time for that crap because I put a lot of time and effort (and $$ spent) into my postings. All I ask in return, in the form of response, is courtesy/constructive criticism.

I use the number of “views” per thread , and the lack of negative responses, as an indicator that my time is not being wasted. I just hope all the readers understand that, while I only post in a few of the EBR forums (ArielRider/M2s/BikTrix), the ebikes I own, and discuss, are generic in nature: sure, different paint colors, different decals, and a few deviations in mechanical/electronic components, but all are still basically same-same, fer sure.

I refer to all rear hub ebikes as my Brothers/Sisters from Another Mother. Whatever works for me, will work for you, too. Guaranteed. After I do a post, if, down the road, I discover a boo-boo, I try to go back and fix it. I include the word UPDATE in the thread title.

I'm comfortable posting here at EBR and feel that I am reaching/connecting with the type of people/riders who are looking for the basic stuff involved in this contraption known as an EBIKE. As I have stated in other postings, I have spent well over $15,000 on ebike stuff over the course of the past 5 years (starting in Oct. 2017). In hindsight, if I'd have bought the correct ebike (my 2018(year) M2S(brand) KUSH(model—now called 750FS) from the get-go AND then stopped right there, I would have saved at least $10,000. But, NOOOO!!! That particular ebike now has 21,000 miles and is still an absolute beast of a machine. I'm really proud of it (and of M2S ebike company).

My only goal in my words of wit is to make other readers aware of whats what AND what/who to avoid. Sometimes I am off the mark a little, but overall I think I'm doing otay. Plus, it really is a lot of fun to pound these keyboard keys upon occasion. Besides, I feel that it does a person good to read actual words/phrases/thoughts in an essay-type format (as opposed to texts,etc). I guess it's the main reason I just tend to babble on in my thread postings.
I really do prefer to be outside riding- that's why I do a 50 miler pretty much every day. And on those days that I don't ride? I go into Jonesy mode – a bummer, fer sure.

I also kicked around the idea of doing a YouTube thingie, but decided that it's not in my mojo. Watching some of those ebike videos, I go ape-chit crazy trying to actually follow through with watching the entire article. I can just imagine myself being one of those video'ers.
I don't do FaceBook, Instagram, TikTok, or any other internet interaction device. My cell phone always remains hanging on the wall of my condominium. I don't even take it on my bike rides. In rare instances I do “text”, but I'd rather talk (using my voice) instead. So, am I OldSchool? Yep, Go SicPuppy!!!

As for your MTBR comment:
I started riding mountain bikes at age 32, in 1983. My first front suspension bike was in 1991, when I added the original Manitou (gray in color) front fork to my rigid 1991 AlpineStar AlMega (florescent yellow) bike.
And all those OldSchool bike postings on MTBR, the ones which were taken/copied from issues of Mountain Bike Action magazine: they are mine. I did those postings around 20 years ago. I had every issue of MBA (including the premiere issue) for a 20+ year time span and every issue was in pristine condition. I even had a special clear holder for each issue. Even way back then, my mindset was the exact same as it is nowadays: Spread the Word/Share the Info. Too dang much fun. And then, of course, “life” happened and all was gone-gone. Oh well.
Well, I guess that's all folks.
 

Sic Puppy

Member
A fun bit of nostalgia . I found MBA 1986 thru 1995 on some of my old disc stuff.
 

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