(#2) 2018 Kush November update..

Sic Puppy

Member
(Jan 2021 update: I am attaching the following link to my posting(s) located over at the BikTrix ebike companys' EBReviewforum site:
https://electricbikereview.com/foru...-sensor-bottom-bracket-price-is-200-00.40097/
As of today, Jan 5th, it is a work-in-progress. It should make current M2S ebike owners really appreciate their very correct ebike purchase. I also realize that many potential ebike buyers cruise these forums as an aid in their search for the ideal ebike at the most practical price. They also need to be made aware of “brand service after the sale”, or lack/deception thereof. After all, an ebike purchase of $1,500+ is no small investment. You be the judge.)

ADDENDUM on Jan 10, 2020: Since I now have numerous threads posted (sorry about that), I want to let viewers know their chronological sequence, thus every thread title will begin with (# ).
I have an ADDENDUM posted on Dec. 10th. It is at the very end of the "Item #1" information.. I have also added some product links within the Item #1 contents.
The original Nov. 27th post begins below:
I have another write-up on this thread (M2S bikes) regarding my magnificent blue Kush toy. I now have 3,280 miles on this beast and, both mechanically and electrically, it has been absolutely bullet-proof. The ONLY maintenance item has been to remove the rear shifter cable at 1,000 mile mark and lube it up with blue waterproof boat axle grease because it began shifting erratically. Other than that, this bike has been a perfect gem. Even the hydraulic brake system has performed flawlessly. However, this write-up does address 2 items which I have had to deal with since my April 2018 delivery.
ITEM #1: Fat Tire tires and flats.
I have never really been a fan of fat tires because I assumed (rightfully so) that , due to their huge footprint, they would collect that much more road /trail fodder than a regular 2” or smaller bike tire.
My Kush has had 3 flats on the rear tire and 1 on the front tire. I absolutely hate getting flats. When I go on a 50-60 mile bike ride, I want to ride. I don't want to have to stop and dink with flat repair. I have 6 bikes. Three are old school (pre ebike) bikes and 3 are ebikes. One bike is a roadie bike using 700cc tires. Four are 26” wheel bikes. Two of those 4 are ebikes. Then, of course there is this fat tire monster. The 3 old school bikes all use Slime in the tubes and, as a result I have never had a flat while out on a ride. Nevertheless, I still carry all the required repair items (spare tube/ co2 cartridges/ inflator/ patches/ glue) on every ride for just in case.
In regards to the two 26” wheel ebikes: My very first ride on my 2017 Xtreme (brand) TrailMaster Elite hard tail ebike (purchased in Oct. 2017) resulted in a snakebite flat because I was transitioning back and forth over a local pothole (testing the front shock/suspension seat post).
It was when dealing with this dual flat that I was introduced to the very drastic differences between an old school bike rear wheel and a rear hub ebike wheel. I won't elaborate here. I did, however, make my initial foray into the world of “flat-free solid inner tubes”.
In December of 2017, I ordered an Xtreme 2018 Sedona dual-suspension ebike. That bike has never had a regular inner tube in the tires. From the lessons learned (there were many) while dinking with the 1st ebike, the Sedona was a godsend in regards to my piece of mind about NOT having to deal with a trail-side loss of air pressure-- because there is NO air. When I ride these first two ebikes, I don't carry any type of tire maintenance items. Yahoo!!
Now for the KUSH Fat Tire tires. The first of 4 flats (3 were on the rear wheel) was the result of an extended (into the tube area) spoke. The Kush had Slime installed, but, at this location, Slime won't do any good. Needless to say, I had a 3 mile walk back to the casa pushing a 60+ pound dead beast.
The 2nd time rear flat was a slow leak so I was able to quickly co2 inflate the tire and go like hell back to the casa. This was a 5 mile trip involving 2 re-inflates and that throttle-only 28+ mph speed was a godsend. I made it home otay. I also discovered that Slime, while performing flawlessly on smaller diameter fairly high pressure tubes in clogging the escaping air, is not adequate in a large diameter large volume lower pressure bike tube (a fat tire tube). While dealing with each of these loss of tire pressure situations, I thought how nice it would be if it was the front tire going flat instead of the super heavy (25+ pounds) rear wheel. I could just go into “wheelie mode” and walk the beast home. A piece of cake.
Well, flat #3 was the front tire. A catastrophic blowout at the end of a long descent. The side of the tire itself was destroyed. No inner tube repair this time. So the long walk began. But, hey, at least it was the front tire. Just wheelie that sucker for the walk home. WRONG!! Heavy (60+ pounds) and clumsy and cumbersome like you can't imagine. I finally got that sucker back home and it was then that “the process” began: how to go solid inner tube on a 4” fat tire?? I won't elaborate other than to say that I have spent at least $200 on yellow solid bike tubes (2 to a tire), 3” beach bum slick tires (black ones, blue ones) smaller-than-4” inner tubes. I tried everything imaginable in an effort to overcome the dreaded flat tire effect on a fat tire bike. Some experiments would be great for 100 miles and then things would go straight to heck. Time for plan b/c/d/e. Finally, things evolved into my current modus operandi. I have been using it for 700 miles and it works just fine and dandy.
Start with the front wheel since it is much lighter/easier to deal with. Use any lessons learned to make the very heavy/cumbersome wheel swap out a smoother operation. As a precursor, let me tell you that I, personally, REALLY like the 3” beach bum slick tires on my KUSH ebike. The original 4” knobbie tires are just too noisy to suit me. These 3” slicks are absolutely Q-U-I-E-T. Therefore, my remedy to flatproofing involves 3” ers.
Here are the ingredients. I have included the links as part of my Dec. 10th ADDENDUM :
a). one pair of 26”x 3” beach bum slick tires. (Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

b). one pair of 26”x 2.5”Maxxis 559 Hookworm Urban wire bead tires. https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Maxxis...le-Compound-/283145507309?hash=item41ecc991ed

c). one par of 26” x 2.1” tires (your choice of brand/style/etc). Mine were original on the Sedona.

d). one pair of Kenda Downhill 26” x 2.3/2.75” 2.25mm schrader valve INNER TUBES. These puppies are awesome, by the way. https://www.walmart.com/ip/LOT-OF-3...Schrader-Valve-Bike-Inner-Tubes-NEW/649278540

For those of you preferring to go with/stay with the 4” fat tires, just go 4” tires, 3” tires, 2.5” tires, Kenda inner tubes ( your 4” tire inner tubes are way too bulbous to use with any tire smaller than 4”).

Start out by mounting the largest tire on one side only. Now insert the 2nd largest tire inside the largest tire still using one side only. Now insert the smallest tire inside the 2nd largest tire using one side only. Now insert the partially inflated inner tube. Now start completely installing each tire. Inflate the inner tube. Game On, Baby!!

You might think that such a setup will be kind of heavy. Such is not the case. Plus, with an ebike, weight is not a factor like it is with an old school bike.
So, anyway, I have been using this exact setup for the past 700 miles without the addition of Slime because I wanted to see just how effective the basic installation would prove to be. I still take a complete flat repair kit (including a tube) with me on every ride for just in case. However, as I write this article, I figure that I may as well just go ahead and put some Slime in the tubes and hope/pray that nothing catastrophic ever occurs on my rides. I'll also stop carrying my repair items.
By the way, after one of my recent rides, I was scanning my tires looking for impaled “stuff” and sure enough, dead center on the rear tire was a galvanized nail head looking back at me. Since the shafts on these puppies are usually 1”-1.5” long, I was really dreading removing this sucker. But, I grabbed the needle nose pliers and began the slow withdrawal of the invader, listening intently for the hiss of escaping air. Luckily, the nail shaft had been severed and was a mere 1/2” long. No air escaped. Life was good. I filled the hole with silicone glue (or whatever). So, the fact that a 1/2” long intruder failed to penetrate to the inner tube means that I Win!! So, now, should you decide to, you can also be a winner. As a sidenote; I run 30psi air pressure in my tires because I ride solely on paved trails/ paths/ roads. I know that many fat tire bikers like to run much lower tire pressure-- even as low as 5 psi. You will just have to experiment to see what works.
Also, when dealing with the rear wheel, prior to trying to remove the wheel, go ahead and remove the disc brake main body (2 screws). The re-installation of your rear wheel will be a much smoother/simpler operation. Remember that you are already dealing with the chain/cogset/axle alignment. Do you really want to bend the disc as you manhandle that 25+ pound rear wheel?? Re-installation of the disc housing after successfully battling the other 3 items is simple as pie.
ADDENDUM posted on Dec. 10th: The aforementioned "recipe" should also work just fine and dandy for assembling a pair of dedicated STUDDED ice/snow tires. Too much fun..
Also, now would be a good time to customize your fat rim holes with decorative duct tape:
https://www.amazon.com/Scotch-Duct-..._rd_wg=uABWB&refRID=CHDWFK9XMJZV5E8103HB&th=1
As for new rim strip material, buy the 2.88" wide heavy duty Gorilla tape. 2 wraps around the rim will suffice. I use both the custom duct tape and the Gorilla tape on both fat tire rims.
..End of Addendum..

That's it for Part One. Now on to Part Two.

ITEM #2:
You are now aware of my flat tire fiasco so, one day at around mileage 3,000, I'm 45 miles into a 60 mile bike ride. I don't know what I did/ran over, but suddenly I could feel the tell-tale wiggling symptoms of a tire loosing air. I stopped the mighty beast and checked both tires. Nothing wrong. So I re-mounted and started pedaling. Again the “feeling”. I stopped and this time examined the frame, etc. Sure enough, there it was: the seat tube had snapped clean in half. Nine inches from the top; right at the top of the control box (which is mounted on the rear of the seat tube). Bummer deal. This ain't good. Since I was still 15 miles from the condo, I had to form a logical thought which would get me home without further destroying my wonderful toy. Due to the rear suspension setup, the two pieces would be coming and going opposite each other as I progressed.
I finally surmised that, by lowering my (27.2mm) seat post all the way down, I could effectively negate the “wiggle” because the seat post extended below the break. Yahoo!! Go Bobby!! I knew that any pedaling might still exert additional stress on the frame because the Kush uses a 30.4mm seat post, but I use a 27.2mm seat post with a 27.2/30.4 sleeve that extends 3” down the seat tube. Therefore a certain amount of “flex” might still be present. But, Throttle-Only to the rescue. Helped by a very smooth riding surface for the duration of the adventure, I plopped my hienie down on to the way-too-low saddle, pushed that thumb throttle and went home at 20-28mph for 15 miles, never even having to spin a crank (pedal). So, I got back to the condo and then commenced to form a thought as to the final remedy for this breakage.
My 1st thought was: “oh boy, I'm gonna get a new bike ( it was only 6 months old)”. However, after further analysis, I deduced that I would NOT be getting a new bike, but a new bike frame.( I would later find that my assumption was unfounded . Apparently, a replacement ebike is offered at a discounted price..) I wasn't exactly crazy for either option because I was very, very happy with my lil' blue beastie buddy as it was finally built to MY satisfaction. Plus, there is no way that I want to disassemble/ de-electrify this complex machine. Old school bikes are no problem-o, but this ebike stuff: I don't think so.
I ordered this Kush in mid-January 2018 and it finally arrived from China in April. During that time lapse, I had LOTS of time to consider this and that for my newest toy. I couldn't know for sure that the stock 30.4mm seat post would be long enough, so I got on the internet and ordered a 450mm long unit for just in case. No way in heck was I gonna wait another day or six for a component after waiting almost ½ year for the dang bike. Naturally, at some point after the arrival of the 30.4mm seat post, I stumbled across the infamous 27.2mm-to-30,4mm seat post sleeve ( I have more than a dozen 27.2 seat posts. My 5 other bikes are all 27.2.). So, the new long 30.4mm post was put in my parts bin.
Fast forward to the broken seat tube incident: What to do, what to do...
First I get my metal banded tape measure device and insert it down the seat tube all the way and also inspecting for potential electrical wiring/connectors down in the depths. Nothing down there. Then I take my installed 27.2 seat post and measure how much excess beyond 4” below the tube top exists. I then measure the extra 30.4mm 450mm long seat post. I determine that, by using my pipe cutter tool, I would cut the 27.2 seat post at 4” below the seat tube top and then cutting/removing the saddle mounting portion of the 30.4mm post at a certain length , I would have a full seat tube length support tube. A piece of cake. Plus, the 30.4 seat post section is both a snug fit AND is light in weight while still being strong/rigid (after all, it is designed to support a persons weight). Having done all the above, I inspect the seat tube to be sure the upper part and the lower part are tightly pressed together. I then take a belt to secure them so separation/spreading does not occur during the “operation”. Next, I get the trusty drill and drill four holes, 2 above the break and 2 below the break. Then I get some metal screws and install them suckers. TaDa.. The operation was a success. By the way, the bike was turned upside down so the metal shavings wouldn't fall down into the bottom bracket area. I have ridden an additional 200 miles on the mighty beast since this predicament, and things are all working just fine.
Also, as soon as I fixed the KUSH, I did the seatpost operation on the SEDONA, too. I didn't have to drill holes/use screws in its case; I just dropped in the additional unit. By the way, practically every model of department store bicycle uses a 27.2 seatpost, be it aluminum or steel.
During the course of this Part 2 story, I remembered back a few years to when my Mongoose dual suspension mountain bike (WalMart special) had exactly the same breakage situation. I also fixed it by the additional seat-post support method. Worked just great then, too. (apparently, rear suspensions put ALOT of stress on the seat tube).
So, any of you folks riding any brand/model of dual suspension rear hub ebike may want to consider buying an additional seat post and dropping it down into your seat tube. You don't need to do any drilling, etc. The added rigidity will probably negate the chances of your mighty steed snapping in half at the seat tube like mine did. Lets face it, 60+ pound bikes, plus the riders weight (180-200 pounds), puts alot of stress/strain on any bike frame. I don't do any type of aerial lift-offs on my bikes. The rowdiest I ever get is “launching” off a curb.

Finally: My 2018 M2S Kush ebike really is Da Bomb. I cannot praise it highly enough. However, if I were to do everything all over again, I would just buy the 750 rear hub hard tail ebike instead ($200 less expensive). I'd then go ahead and install a suspension seat post on it. My Kush rear suspension shock requires the purchase of an air shock inflation pump. I wouldn't mind so much if the front shock fork was also an air-inflated item. But such is not the case..
So, thats it. I hope you got some decent information from this VERY long write-up.
Happy Holidays.
The End
[ POSTED on Nov. 30: There is an addendum farther down this thread ]
 
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Ebiker01

Well-Known Member
A tire inside a bigger tire ??
Is first time i hear about this... if ia hib srive i make sure to cover the apoke holes very well, and like you cleverly found out i also use a beefy tube(downhill or mountain bike tube is called thornproof, they are very thick, -1000% chance for a flat) .
And then a good thick new tire.
 

Sic Puppy

Member
Thanks. I've got an Addendum that I'm trying to add to this thread but, for whatever reason, it won't post. I had the same problem with this initial posting and EBR came to the rescue. I have a call in to them and am awaiting a response.
I guess I'll just go Old School and re-type it manually. Bummer..
ADDENDUM on Nov. 30 :
I forgot to include some other information when posting the initial "November Update", so here goes.
Concerning the use of "inside" tires: if you are buying new tires, get city/slick tread tires. As for the "outside" tire, it can be city/slick/knobbie, whatever you prefer. However, as an "inside", knobbies will give you a lot of air cavities between the tires. Slicks, on the other hand, will give you a lot of solid rubber, which will also come in handy should you decide to use a little green Slime (still recommended) in the inner tube(s), too.
Among my other Fat Tire flat tire experiments was the use of Mr Tuffy 3XL tire liners (the brown/black model @ $50 per pair). I have used Mr. Tuffy on some of my old school (not Ebike) bikes over the years and found them to be quite satisfactory in flat prevention (plus Slime, too). However, I was leery about those puppies being used on a fat tire because I thought that, as a result of using less than max tire pressure (30+ psi), they would "walk" down the tire from the top center position over to the sidewall area of the tire should I encounter any loss of air. I have had that exact experience on some of my other forays to the Dark Side in my unsuccessful attempts at eliminating fat tire flats.
When reading Amazon Reviews about the 3XL, I noticed that more than a few reviewers were frustrated by the hassle of trying to get the liners to remain top-center during the re-mounting of the tire/tube. But, I figured What The Hey and bought a pair of the $50 liners. Also, many reviewers stated that they were using 2 liners (@ $50 pair) on EACH tire. That's a $100 investment for top-center tread protection only, lil' fat tire buckaroo's. I wasn't ready to be quite that committed so I just ordered 1 pair. Sure enough, they proved to be a real mutha to install. I never did complete the process. Instead, they were relegated to the infamous parts bin.. Down the road, I may try to insert them on the rear wheel ONLY between the largest (the outside) tire (3") and the 2nd tire (the Maxxis 2.5") just to see if they will stay put. If satisfactory, I will just eliminate the 3rd tire (the 2.1" Kenda knobbie). Or not. The 3XL liners aren't heavy at all. Plus, I can just tape the two liners together using my trusty heavy-duty 2.88" wide black Gorilla tape (a godsend, fer sure).
Also remember that a tire will give extra protection AND additional stiffness down the entire sidewall area whereas the Mr. Tuffy 3XL only will protect the top-center tread area. Decisions, decisions.. By the way, the 2.88" wide heavy duty (black) Gorilla tape works perfectly as a fat tire rim liner. Do two wrap-arounds.
As for another variance of my original "multiple tires per rim" configuration, a person also has the option of padding up (using 3 tires) ONLY the super heavy rear hub motor wheel and going with a less elaborate setup for the front wheel. After all, the front wheel is actually the exact same as on a regular (old school) bike. But, once you've had to do battle with that heavy rear wheel setup (especially while out on a ride), you will do whatever it takes to negate having to ever remove/install that rascal again.
I have had my rear wheel off/on at least 20 times over the course of my many, many forays into flat-proofing that dang tire/wheel. My rear rim looks like it has been gnawed on by varmits because of all the tire lever/ screwdriver abuse that has been inflicted upon it. But, it still remains straight and true and that, my fellow readers, is what it is all about. Quite the beast indeed. By the way, I am still getting 65 miles per charge with 1 bar still remaining. I run out of gas before the ebike does. My trusty Kush is quite the beast indeed.
As for my other 2 ebikes (Xtreme brand): they both utilize Bell NoMorFlat black 26"x1.75" solid inner tubes-- no air, so no flats.. ever. The Bell tubes are about 30% heavier (more dense) than the yellow Stop-A-Flat 26"x 2.125" solid inner tubes (I have both brands). I also wrap each solid tube with Gorilla tape. I do 2 wraps perpendicular to the tube to insure that there will not be any "wiggle" in the tire/rim area (feels like your tire pressure is low). Do not leave any space between wrap sets. I found out the hard way what will happen if the tape is allowed to "walk" along the exposed Bell tube. So, no space = no problems.
I use 1.75" or 1.9" slick city tires on both ebikes. The Sedona has 2,600 flat-free miles since I bought it last December (2017).
In ending (finally), a person has the option of doing Rear Wheel/Tire Only in regards to my suggestions as to how to successfully do battle with the dreaded flat tire prevention on any rear motor hub ebike.. They are all quite heavy and super cumbersome to manhandle as you do battle to fix your limping mighty beast. Then, once you see just how well the "fix" works, you can repeat the same modus operandi on the front tire/wheel, too.
Happy Holidays all year round.
And remember: Ride It Like Ya Stole It..

ADDENDUM: photo's posted on Jan. 3, 2019;
Blue bike is 2018 M2S KUSH.. 3,602 miles..
Black bike is 2018 Xtreme SEDONA.. 2,665 miles.. FILE0012.JPGFILE0015.JPGFILE0016.JPGFILE0024.JPG
 
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Patdown45

New Member
Great write ups on the flat prevention methods. I had my 3rd flat all on rear on my R750 all terrain with broken spokes on 2 out of the 3 flats. Looking at upgrading the spokes to a more rugged spoke if I can find one to replace the cheap chinese ones that came on the bike. I always suspected the spokes are not tight enough and that makes sense why they keep breaking due to fatigue in the metal as a mechanical engineer and a little time in metallurgy it is no brainer that repetitive torque on the hub flexing the spokes will cause them to break. Which leads me to the flat tire causing the spoke to break when the bike is getting walked? doubtful they are probably breaking after 10 or 15 of my daily 50 mile commutes which is 3 to 4 weeks about when the last breakage occured. A small staple penetrated thru the cheap tire I had on there and puntured the tube, ready to try a tubless conversion. Have you ever tried that before you went to the multiple tire option? I have not heard of it, but if it works I will try anything.
R/
 

Delta

Member
Hi Patdow. If you are looking for good spokes check out https://sunnyspokes.com/ Check the gauge and length of your spokes before ordering. The spokes on my M2S Ultra Fat are 13 gauge. I had one come out of the hub several months ago and ordered a package of new ones. The original ones are steel, the ones from Sunnyspoke are stainless steel and much stronger. The head on the original spoke was deformed and had popped out of the hub. M2S sent me a replacement spoke under warranty but they sent silver and my spokes are black (which they knew) so I could not use it.
 

Sic Puppy

Member
Delta: Thanks for that sunnyspokes website. I put it on my Favorites ebike list.
Patdown 45: I lost interest in the tubeless/Stans option when I discovered that flat tires are still possible and that, when one does occur, you have to deal with a liquid mess. Plus, you still need to carry a spare inner tube and all the patch kit/air apparatus. Also, I wasn't too thrilled about how outside air temperatures might adversely affect the elasticity of the Stans liquid. I do wintertime rides and temps of 15-20 degrees are not unheard of.
As for how I came upon my 3 tire combo recipes: I literally stumbled onto the idea. When my Kush arrived, I decided to keep the shipping box for "just in case". The box proved to be excellent storage for my numerous tires (I own 6 bikes). One day I was searching for a certain tire. I pulled every tire out of that box and the tire in question was nowhere to be found. So, as I was returning each tire back into the box, I paid closer attention. Sure enough, it was a tire-in-a-tire. They fit like gloves and the weight gain was so minuscule that I hadn't even noticed when removing the culprits. That is when I had my Einstein Moment. Then I thought : if 2 tires is workable, 3 tires would be righty-didy. After all, with those huge 3"/80mm wide rims, anything is possible/practical. So, there you have it.
An added bonus when using 3 tires is that you have 3 sidewalls supporting your outer tire instead of just one. That makes using lower air pressure much more viable. I have reduced my pressure down as low as 10 pounds and everything felt just fine and dandy.
Before I bought my mighty Kush, I chatted with 2 different fat bike hardtail riders-- the second rider had your ebike. They both said exactly the same thing: with high tire pressure, the ride quality was brutal. So, they experimented with lowering the pressure. Eventually they let too much air out and the tire would roll off the rim and a pinch flat would result. Everything was a trade-off.
As a result of my encounter with that 750 rider, the very next day, I placed the order for the Kush. The purchase was based solely on a). the 28mph throttle-only (class 3) speed, and b). the dual suspension of the Kush. I wasn't too crazy about the 4" fat tire thingie, but as it turns out, I managed to mold that into a workable option, too. Now I am ready to either buy yet another fat tire ebike (Sic Puppy, fer sure) or an additional ready-to-mount orange rimmed (my bike is blue) 750w rear hub wheelset (front and rear) so I can swap out whenever the urge hits.
So, as for tubeless: give it a try. Either it will work or it won't. You know exactly what a pain it is to have to deal with that 25 pound rear wheel. If you could dink with it just one more time and then not have to mess with it again for 1,000s of miles, then that is what you need to do, be it Stans tubeless or my multi-tire combo recipe. Later tater.
 
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Delta

Member
Sic Puppy, you are welcome. If you ever talk to Sunnyspokes you will find him to be a really nice, knowledgeable guy.
 

mewanderinghome

New Member
@Sic Puppy you and I must have similar tastes: I'm also looking at an X-treme (Rubicon: identical components to your Sedona but standard rise not mid-rise) and an M2S: probably the mid-drive full suspension, but maybe your full suspension hub drive. Couple questions for you:

1) Did you try 2 tire layers before going with 3? Did you try tires designed to create a similar 'thick' tire situation like these: https://tannusamerica.com/products/tannus-armour

2) I like how inexpensive the Rubicon is (~$1200 at Amazon), and that it's full suspension. I don't feel I need a full 4" tire either, but I do want to be able to mount a plus size (somewhere between 2.5-3") tire for riding in loose sand areas here in AZ. If it's easy for you, can you measure to see what max width tire your Sedona would accommodate? Also, what do you feel is so much better about the M2S than the Sedona? It sounds like M2S has some lousy components too (like the spokes several people here are apparently having issues with). My thought was to buy the least expensive, integrated-battery full suspension ebike frame I can find, and just upgrade components until I have the bike I want. Is the X-treme frame itself not a good choice for this? Is that maybe because it's not rigid enough being mid-rise, where the should-be-stiffer Rubicon frame might be fine?

Thanks in advance, since you have the 2 brands I'm looking most closely at!
 

TAZMANIMAN

Active Member
TheXtreme frame is Lifetime warranty and the company is always available for taking care of issues. I have been Xtremely pleased (see what I did there!) with their customer service and our bikes both have lifetime warranty on all components including tires and tubes. (battery is 1 yr full replacement and then prorated for 6-7 years after.) Not much reason to worry. We ride mostly rail trails and such so it isn't always smooth but we have 2 years and 2000 miles on them and I couldn't be happier. I had one freewheel cog act up and they sent a new one out no questions. I even had a battery issue on the end of the 1st year, literally the last week of the 1st year. I just had to show proof of sending it out before the last day, they replaced it 100%. We have enjoyed them so much we went ahead and bought second batteries last year. now we can travel farther than our butts can handle lol. 50-60 mile rides have become more the norm!!!
 

DanDblU

New Member
ADDENDUM on Jan 10, 2020: Since I now have numerous threads posted (sorry about that), I want to let viewers know their chronological sequence, thus every thread title will begin with (# ).
I have an ADDENDUM posted on Dec. 10th. It is at the very end of the "Item #1" information.. I have also added some product links within the Item #1 contents.
The original Nov. 27th post begins below:
I have another write-up on this thread (M2S bikes) regarding my magnificent blue Kush toy. I now have 3,280 miles on this beast and, both mechanically and electrically, it has been absolutely bullet-proof. The ONLY maintenance item has been to remove the rear shifter cable at 1,000 mile mark and lube it up with blue waterproof boat axle grease because it began shifting erratically. Other than that, this bike has been a perfect gem. Even the hydraulic brake system has performed flawlessly. However, this write-up does address 2 items which I have had to deal with since my April 2018 delivery.
ITEM #1: Fat Tire tires and flats.
I have never really been a fan of fat tires because I assumed (rightfully so) that , due to their huge footprint, they would collect that much more road /trail fodder than a regular 2” or smaller bike tire.
My Kush has had 3 flats on the rear tire and 1 on the front tire. I absolutely hate getting flats. When I go on a 50-60 mile bike ride, I want to ride. I don't want to have to stop and dink with flat repair. I have 6 bikes. Three are old school (pre ebike) bikes and 3 are ebikes. One bike is a roadie bike using 700cc tires. Four are 26” wheel bikes. Two of those 4 are ebikes. Then, of course there is this fat tire monster. The 3 old school bikes all use Slime in the tubes and, as a result I have never had a flat while out on a ride. Nevertheless, I still carry all the required repair items (spare tube/ co2 cartridges/ inflator/ patches/ glue) on every ride for just in case.
In regards to the two 26” wheel ebikes: My very first ride on my 2017 Xtreme (brand) TrailMaster Elite hard tail ebike (purchased in Oct. 2017) resulted in a snakebite flat because I was transitioning back and forth over a local pothole (testing the front shock/suspension seat post).
It was when dealing with this dual flat that I was introduced to the very drastic differences between an old school bike rear wheel and a rear hub ebike wheel. I won't elaborate here. I did, however, make my initial foray into the world of “flat-free solid inner tubes”.
In December of 2017, I ordered an Xtreme 2018 Sedona dual-suspension ebike. That bike has never had a regular inner tube in the tires. From the lessons learned (there were many) while dinking with the 1st ebike, the Sedona was a godsend in regards to my piece of mind about NOT having to deal with a trail-side loss of air pressure-- because there is NO air. When I ride these first two ebikes, I don't carry any type of tire maintenance items. Yahoo!!
Now for the KUSH Fat Tire tires. The first of 4 flats (3 were on the rear wheel) was the result of an extended (into the tube area) spoke. The Kush had Slime installed, but, at this location, Slime won't do any good. Needless to say, I had a 3 mile walk back to the casa pushing a 60+ pound dead beast.
The 2nd time rear flat was a slow leak so I was able to quickly co2 inflate the tire and go like hell back to the casa. This was a 5 mile trip involving 2 re-inflates and that throttle-only 28+ mph speed was a godsend. I made it home otay. I also discovered that Slime, while performing flawlessly on smaller diameter fairly high pressure tubes in clogging the escaping air, is not adequate in a large diameter large volume lower pressure bike tube (a fat tire tube). While dealing with each of these loss of tire pressure situations, I thought how nice it would be if it was the front tire going flat instead of the super heavy (25+ pounds) rear wheel. I could just go into “wheelie mode” and walk the beast home. A piece of cake.
Well, flat #3 was the front tire. A catastrophic blowout at the end of a long descent. The side of the tire itself was destroyed. No inner tube repair this time. So the long walk began. But, hey, at least it was the front tire. Just wheelie that sucker for the walk home. WRONG!! Heavy (60+ pounds) and clumsy and cumbersome like you can't imagine. I finally got that sucker back home and it was then that “the process” began: how to go solid inner tube on a 4” fat tire?? I won't elaborate other than to say that I have spent at least $200 on yellow solid bike tubes (2 to a tire), 3” beach bum slick tires (black ones, blue ones) smaller-than-4” inner tubes. I tried everything imaginable in an effort to overcome the dreaded flat tire effect on a fat tire bike. Some experiments would be great for 100 miles and then things would go straight to heck. Time for plan b/c/d/e. Finally, things evolved into my current modus operandi. I have been using it for 700 miles and it works just fine and dandy.
Start with the front wheel since it is much lighter/easier to deal with. Use any lessons learned to make the very heavy/cumbersome wheel swap out a smoother operation. As a precursor, let me tell you that I, personally, REALLY like the 3” beach bum slick tires on my KUSH ebike. The original 4” knobbie tires are just too noisy to suit me. These 3” slicks are absolutely Q-U-I-E-T. Therefore, my remedy to flatproofing involves 3” ers.
Here are the ingredients. I have included the links as part of my Dec. 10th ADDENDUM :
a). one pair of 26”x 3” beach bum slick tires. https://www.ebay.com/i/272641789448?chn=ps

b). one pair of 26”x 2.5”Maxxis 559 Hookworm Urban wire bead tires. https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Maxxis...le-Compound-/283145507309?hash=item41ecc991ed

c). one par of 26” x 2.1” tires (your choice of brand/style/etc). Mine were original on the Sedona.

d). one pair of Kenda Downhill 26” x 2.3/2.75” 2.25mm schrader valve INNER TUBES. These puppies are awesome, by the way. https://www.walmart.com/ip/LOT-OF-3...Schrader-Valve-Bike-Inner-Tubes-NEW/649278540

For those of you preferring to go with/stay with the 4” fat tires, just go 4” tires, 3” tires, 2.5” tires, Kenda inner tubes ( your 4” tire inner tubes are way too bulbous to use with any tire smaller than 4”).

Start out by mounting the largest tire on one side only. Now insert the 2nd largest tire inside the largest tire still using one side only. Now insert the smallest tire inside the 2nd largest tire using one side only. Now insert the partially inflated inner tube. Now start completely installing each tire. Inflate the inner tube. Game On, Baby!!

You might think that such a setup will be kind of heavy. Such is not the case. Plus, with an ebike, weight is not a factor like it is with an old school bike.
So, anyway, I have been using this exact setup for the past 700 miles without the addition of Slime because I wanted to see just how effective the basic installation would prove to be. I still take a complete flat repair kit (including a tube) with me on every ride for just in case. However, as I write this article, I figure that I may as well just go ahead and put some Slime in the tubes and hope/pray that nothing catastrophic ever occurs on my rides. I'll also stop carrying my repair items.
By the way, after one of my recent rides, I was scanning my tires looking for impaled “stuff” and sure enough, dead center on the rear tire was a galvanized nail head looking back at me. Since the shafts on these puppies are usually 1”-1.5” long, I was really dreading removing this sucker. But, I grabbed the needle nose pliers and began the slow withdrawal of the invader, listening intently for the hiss of escaping air. Luckily, the nail shaft had been severed and was a mere 1/2” long. No air escaped. Life was good. I filled the hole with silicone glue (or whatever). So, the fact that a 1/2” long intruder failed to penetrate to the inner tube means that I Win!! So, now, should you decide to, you can also be a winner. As a sidenote; I run 30psi air pressure in my tires because I ride solely on paved trails/ paths/ roads. I know that many fat tire bikers like to run much lower tire pressure-- even as low as 5 psi. You will just have to experiment to see what works.
Also, when dealing with the rear wheel, prior to trying to remove the wheel, go ahead and remove the disc brake main body (2 screws). The re-installation of your rear wheel will be a much smoother/simpler operation. Remember that you are already dealing with the chain/cogset/axle alignment. Do you really want to bend the disc as you manhandle that 25+ pound rear wheel?? Re-installation of the disc housing after successfully battling the other 3 items is simple as pie.
ADDENDUM posted on Dec. 10th: The aforementioned "recipe" should also work just fine and dandy for assembling a pair of dedicated STUDDED ice/snow tires. Too much fun..
Also, now would be a good time to customize your fat rim holes with decorative duct tape:
https://www.amazon.com/Scotch-Duct-..._rd_wg=uABWB&refRID=CHDWFK9XMJZV5E8103HB&th=1
As for new rim strip material, buy the 2.88" wide heavy duty Gorilla tape. 2 wraps around the rim will suffice. I use both the custom duct tape and the Gorilla tape on both fat tire rims.
..End of Addendum..

That's it for Part One. Now on to Part Two.

ITEM #2:
You are now aware of my flat tire fiasco so, one day at around mileage 3,000, I'm 45 miles into a 60 mile bike ride. I don't know what I did/ran over, but suddenly I could feel the tell-tale wiggling symptoms of a tire loosing air. I stopped the mighty beast and checked both tires. Nothing wrong. So I re-mounted and started pedaling. Again the “feeling”. I stopped and this time examined the frame, etc. Sure enough, there it was: the seat tube had snapped clean in half. Nine inches from the top; right at the top of the control box (which is mounted on the rear of the seat tube). Bummer deal. This ain't good. Since I was still 15 miles from the condo, I had to form a logical thought which would get me home without further destroying my wonderful toy. Due to the rear suspension setup, the two pieces would be coming and going opposite each other as I progressed.
I finally surmised that, by lowering my (27.2mm) seat post all the way down, I could effectively negate the “wiggle” because the seat post extended below the break. Yahoo!! Go Bobby!! I knew that any pedaling might still exert additional stress on the frame because the Kush uses a 30.4mm seat post, but I use a 27.2mm seat post with a 27.2/30.4 sleeve that extends 3” down the seat tube. Therefore a certain amount of “flex” might still be present. But, Throttle-Only to the rescue. Helped by a very smooth riding surface for the duration of the adventure, I plopped my hienie down on to the way-too-low saddle, pushed that thumb throttle and went home at 20-28mph for 15 miles, never even having to spin a crank (pedal). So, I got back to the condo and then commenced to form a thought as to the final remedy for this breakage.
My 1st thought was: “oh boy, I'm gonna get a new bike ( it was only 6 months old)”. However, after further analysis, I deduced that I would NOT be getting a new bike, but a new bike frame. I wasn't exactly crazy for either option because I was very, very happy with my lil' blue beastie buddy as it was finally built to MY satisfaction. Plus, there is no way that I want to disassemble/ de-electrify this complex machine. Old school bikes are no problem-o, but this ebike stuff: I don't think so.
I ordered this Kush in mid-January 2018 and it finally arrived from China in April. During that time lapse, I had LOTS of time to consider this and that for my newest toy. I couldn't know for sure that the stock 30.4mm seat post would be long enough, so I got on the internet and ordered a 450mm long unit for just in case. No way in heck was I gonna wait another day or six for a component after waiting almost ½ year for the dang bike. Naturally, at some point after the arrival of the 30.4mm seat post, I stumbled across the infamous 27.2mm-to-30,4mm seat post sleeve ( I have more than a dozen 27.2 seat posts. My 5 other bikes are all 27.2.). So, the new long 30.4mm post was put in my parts bin.
Fast forward to the broken seat tube incident: What to do, what to do...
First I get my metal banded tape measure device and insert it down the seat tube all the way and also inspecting for potential electrical wiring/connectors down in the depths. Nothing down there. Then I take my installed 27.2 seat post and measure how much excess beyond 4” below the tube top exists. I then measure the extra 30.4mm 450mm long seat post. I determine that, by using my pipe cutter tool, I would cut the 27.2 seat post at 4” below the seat tube top and then cutting/removing the saddle mounting portion of the 30.4mm post at a certain length , I would have a full seat tube length support tube. A piece of cake. Plus, the 30.4 seat post section is both a snug fit AND is light in weight while still being strong/rigid (after all, it is designed to support a persons weight). Having done all the above, I inspect the seat tube to be sure the upper part and the lower part are tightly pressed together. I then take a belt to secure them so separation/spreading does not occur during the “operation”. Next, I get the trusty drill and drill four holes, 2 above the break and 2 below the break. Then I get some metal screws and install them suckers. TaDa.. The operation was a success. By the way, the bike was turned upside down so the metal shavings wouldn't fall down into the bottom bracket area. I have ridden an additional 200 miles on the mighty beast since this predicament, and things are all working just fine.
Also, as soon as I fixed the KUSH, I did the seatpost operation on the SEDONA, too. I didn't have to drill holes/use screws in its case; I just dropped in the additional unit. By the way, practically every model of department store bicycle uses a 27.2 seatpost, be it aluminum or steel.
During the course of this Part 2 story, I remembered back a few years to when my Mongoose dual suspension mountain bike (WalMart special) had exactly the same breakage situation. I also fixed it by the additional seat-post support method. Worked just great then, too. (apparently, rear suspensions put ALOT of stress on the seat tube).
So, any of you folks riding any brand/model of dual suspension rear hub ebike may want to consider buying an additional seat post and dropping it down into your seat tube. You don't need to do any drilling, etc. The added rigidity will probably negate the chances of your mighty steed snapping in half at the seat tube like mine did. Lets face it, 60+ pound bikes, plus the riders weight (180-200 pounds), puts alot of stress/strain on any bike frame. I don't do any type of aerial lift-offs on my bikes. The rowdiest I ever get is “launching” off a curb.

Finally: My 2018 M2S Kush ebike really is Da Bomb. I cannot praise it highly enough. However, if I were to do everything all over again, I would just buy the 750 rear hub hard tail ebike instead ($200 less expensive). I'd then go ahead and install a suspension seat post on it. My Kush rear suspension shock requires the purchase of an air shock inflation pump. I wouldn't mind so much if the front shock fork was also an air-inflated item. But such is not the case..
So, thats it. I hope you got some decent information from this VERY long write-up.
Happy Holidays.
The End
[ POSTED on Nov. 30: There is an addendum farther down this thread ]
 

DanDblU

New Member
Hi Sic Puppy...I posted on FB that I cracked my frame and a friend pointed out your post. Sounds like you did the exact same thing! I'm not exactly sure how you fixed it but I will try to do the same thing. I'm bummed as I LOVE this bike so hopefully I can repair it. M2S said they would give me a $400 discount on a new one, but that's still $1,800 after shipping so I'd rather try to fix this one. I don't trust a new one won't do the same thing. I don't jump or ride hard so I was really surprised that this happened after owning the bike for 2.5 years. I also have blue and bought it around the same time you purchased yours. Where did you get the 450mm post that you dropped down the seat tube? Thanks for any info you can provide on the fix :)
 

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Delta

Member
Delta: Thanks for that sunnyspokes website. I put it on my Favorites ebike list.
Patdown 45: I lost interest in the tubeless/Stans option when I discovered that flat tires are still possible and that, when one does occur, you have to deal with a liquid mess. Plus, you still need to carry a spare inner tube and all the patch kit/air apparatus. Also, I wasn't too thrilled about how outside air temperatures might adversely affect the elasticity of the Stans liquid. I do wintertime rides and temps of 15-20 degrees are not unheard of.
As for how I came upon my 3 tire combo recipes: I literally stumbled onto the idea. When my Kush arrived, I decided to keep the shipping box for "just in case". The box proved to be excellent storage for my numerous tires (I own 6 bikes). One day I was searching for a certain tire. I pulled every tire out of that box and the tire in question was nowhere to be found. So, as I was returning each tire back into the box, I paid closer attention. Sure enough, it was a tire-in-a-tire. They fit like gloves and the weight gain was so minuscule that I hadn't even noticed when removing the culprits. That is when I had my Einstein Moment. Then I thought : if 2 tires is workable, 3 tires would be righty-didy. After all, with those huge 4" rims, anything is possible/practical. So, there you have it.
An added bonus when using 3 tires is that you have 3 sidewalls supporting your outer tire instead of just one. That makes using lower air pressure much more viable. I have reduced my pressure down as low as 10 pounds and everything felt just fine and dandy.
Before I bought my mighty Kush, I chatted with 2 different fat bike hardtail riders-- the second rider had your ebike. They both said exactly the same thing: with high tire pressure, the ride quality was brutal. So, they experimented with lowering the pressure. Eventually they let too much air out and the tire would roll off the rim and a pinch flat would result. Everything was a trade-off.
As a result of my encounter with that 750 rider, the very next day, I placed the order for the Kush. The purchase was based solely on a). the 28mph throttle-only (class 3) speed, and b). the dual suspension of the Kush. I wasn't too crazy about the 4" fat tire thingie, but as it turns out, I managed to mold that into a workable option, too. Now I am ready to either buy yet another fat tire ebike (Sic Puppy, fer sure) or an additional ready-to-mount orange rimmed (my bike is blue) 750w rear hub wheelset (front and rear) so I can swap out whenever the urge hits.
So, as for tubeless: give it a try. Either it will work or it won't. You know exactly what a pain it is to have to deal with that 25 pound rear wheel. If you could dink with it just one more time and then not have to mess with it again for 1,000s of miles, then that is what you need to do, be it Stans tubeless or my multi-tire combo recipe. Later tater.



Sic Puppy, if you have not seen these yet you might check out Tannus Armour. They have what looks like a fantastic tire liner which is now available for fat tire bikes.
 

Sic Puppy

Member
Hi Sic Puppy...I posted on FB that I cracked my frame and a friend pointed out your post. Sounds like you did the exact same thing! I'm not exactly sure how you fixed it but I will try to do the same thing. I'm bummed as I LOVE this bike so hopefully I can repair it. M2S said they would give me a $400 discount on a new one, but that's still $1,800 after shipping so I'd rather try to fix this one. I don't trust a new one won't do the same thing. I don't jump or ride hard so I was really surprised that this happened after owning the bike for 2.5 years. I also have blue and bought it around the same time you purchased yours. Where did you get the 450mm post that you dropped down the seat tube? Thanks for any info you can provide on the fix :)
Hi DanDbIU,
My posted review in #2 pretty much says it all.
I needed 12" (300mm) of seatpost to remedy my break repair. So, by buying a 450mm long seatpost, I would have the needed length of post/tube that would definitely be a tight fit (required) for the entire length of the seat tube repair area, I would still have a usable (though only 6" long) seatpost to mount a spare seat/saddle on. As a matter of fact, I use that particular "short" seat setup whenever I need to flip my beast upside down to remove the rear wheel, etc. That way I don't have to worry about over-abusing any of my pricier seat/seatpost combo's. So remember: when you measure off the needed post length, measure from the bottom up, not the top down.
As for the 450mm long seatpost in size 30.4 : just Google the item. Here ya go-- can't beat this price: https://www.wish.com/product/59f04508eafc30297189ed0c?hide_login_modal=true&from_ad=goog_shopping&_display_country_code=US&_force_currency_code=USD&pid=googleadwords_int&c={campaignId}&ad_cid=59f04508eafc30297189ed0c&ad_cc=US&ad_curr=USD&ad_price=13.99&campaign_id=8701430383&retargeting=true&gclid=CjwKCAjwydP5BRBREiwA-qrCGpIlQYQyeN2xJ1ta9oRMbH7xS-tTr8bpjeWwBonX0pW0pGDM__MsbRoCx0MQAvD_BwE&share=web

Be ABSOLUTELY sure to use a pipe/tubing cutter to cut this/these seatpost(s): https://www.harborfreight.com/tubin...C_aFDHekYOZFG-lwb3kgkkqhvau2JXWhoC7xcQAvD_BwE
You do not want to have to be dealing with burrs, etc. created by using a saw blade. I swear by this type of tubing cutter for all my bike stuff.
As for the "sacrificed" seatpost: just make sure that you have 2 inches of it above the break so you have something for the 2 self-tapping metal screws to grab onto. (2 screws above the break and 2 screws below the break).. A piece of cake. Use a rope or belt or strap to insure the the upper and lower sections of the frame remain nice and tightly wedged together (no gap) while you drill/screw the sacrificed seatpost section
Stuff something/anything into the bottom most section of the sacrificed seatpost so as to entrap the metal filings/shavings created by the 4 holes that will be drilled (for the screws). There's nothing down there for the shavings to muck up, but plug it anyway.
Ok, now that you have the sacrificed seatpost installed/drilled/screwed, you probably will have to "customize" your saddle mounted seatpost to fit your specific height. Again, no problemo. You only need to have 3 inches of seatpost hidden BELOW the top of the seat tube. The tubing cutter once again comes to the rescue because it makes a very clean (no burrs) cut. Go via baby steps here.
Insert the top seatpost ( the one with the seat/saddle attached). Is the seat gonna be too high? How Much-- 1", 2", etc.?? Get the tubing cutter and start whacking.. Even if you accidentally cut off too much of this top seatpost, it is no big deal. However, it is nice to know that your seat will never sink down-- because it can't. it is a simple matter to make a "spacer" to fill in the space-- anything will do plastic/metal/pvc pipe, whatever. I now use this method on all of my 8 bikes-- the correct size seatpost diameter for the ebikes and pvc pipe for the 3 "old school" bikes.. As for the pvc pipe-- it doesn't have to be a tight fit because it is just acting as a "stopper". If it's a little too loose, just wrap each end with some duct tape.. But, not too tight..

As for my KUSH: I will be posting a "15,000 mile update" soon. I currently show 14,156 miles on the odometer. Since buying this wonderful KUSH beast, I have purchased 2 more ebikes and, between the 3 ebikes, I pretty much keep myself in trouble (fun trouble, though) .
If you have any further questions, just let me know..
 
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Sic Puppy

Member
Sic Puppy, if you have not seen these yet you might check out Tannus Armour. They have what looks like a fantastic tire liner which is now available for fat tire bikes.
Hi DELTA,
That's interesting. By all means, give it a try. Either it works for you or it doesn't. As for my recipe(s), I installed it/them at mileage 2,500 on the KUSH. It now now 14,155 absolutely problem-free miles, so that makes for 11,655 to the good. As for my 2019 F750 (WhiteyFord), it has used the recipe since mile 1, and it now shows 5,197 miles.
Granted, I have spent a chitload of $$$ while experimenting with various tires/sizes/styles as I've pursued same. On the other hand, had this TANNUS system been available back then, I can 100% guarantee ya that I would have tried it. And then I would have posted my verdict on this forum for all you M2S hooligans to peruse. Fer sure.
 

DanDblU

New Member
Hi DanDbIU,
My posted review in #2 pretty much says it all:
****************************************************************************
ITEM #2:
You are now aware of my flat tire fiasco so, one day at around mileage 3,000, I'm 45 miles into a 60 mile bike ride. I don't know what I did/ran over, but suddenly I could feel the tell-tale wiggling symptoms of a tire loosing air. I stopped the mighty beast and checked both tires. Nothing wrong. So I re-mounted and started pedaling. Again the “feeling”. I stopped and this time examined the frame, etc. Sure enough, there it was: the seat tube had snapped clean in half. Nine inches from the top; right at the top of the control box (which is mounted on the rear of the seat tube). Bummer deal. This ain't good. Since I was still 15 miles from the condo, I had to form a logical thought which would get me home without further destroying my wonderful toy. Due to the rear suspension setup, the two pieces would be coming and going opposite each other as I progressed.
I finally surmised that, by lowering my (27.2mm) seat post all the way down, I could effectively negate the “wiggle” because the seat post extended below the break. Yahoo!! Go Bobby!! I knew that any pedaling might still exert additional stress on the frame because the Kush uses a 30.4mm seat post, but I use a 27.2mm seat post with a 27.2/30.4 sleeve that extends 3” down the seat tube. Therefore a certain amount of “flex” might still be present. But, Throttle-Only to the rescue. Helped by a very smooth riding surface for the duration of the adventure, I plopped my hienie down on to the way-too-low saddle, pushed that thumb throttle and went home at 20-28mph for 15 miles, never even having to spin a crank (pedal). So, I got back to the condo and then commenced to form a thought as to the final remedy for this breakage.
My 1st thought was: “oh boy, I'm gonna get a new bike ( it was only 6 months old)”. However, after further analysis, I deduced that I would NOT be getting a new bike, but a new bike frame. I wasn't exactly crazy for either option because I was very, very happy with my lil' blue beastie buddy as it was finally built to MY satisfaction. Plus, there is no way that I want to disassemble/ de-electrify this complex machine. Old school bikes are no problem-o, but this ebike stuff: I don't think so.
I ordered this Kush in mid-January 2018 and it finally arrived from China in April. During that time lapse, I had LOTS of time to consider this and that for my newest toy. I couldn't know for sure that the stock 30.4mm seat post would be long enough, so I got on the internet and ordered a 450mm long unit for just in case. No way in heck was I gonna wait another day or six for a component after waiting almost ½ year for the dang bike. Naturally, at some point after the arrival of the 30.4mm seat post, I stumbled across the infamous 27.2mm-to-30,4mm seat post sleeve ( I have more than a dozen 27.2 seat posts. My 5 other bikes are all 27.2.). So, the new long 30.4mm post was put in my parts bin.
Fast forward to the broken seat tube incident: What to do, what to do...
First I get my metal banded tape measure device and insert it down the seat tube all the way and also inspecting for potential electrical wiring/connectors down in the depths. Nothing down there. Then I take my installed 27.2 seat post and measure how much excess beyond 4” below the tube top exists. I then measure the extra 30.4mm 450mm long seat post. I determine that, by using my pipe cutter tool, I would cut the 27.2 seat post at 4” below the seat tube top and then cutting/removing the saddle mounting portion of the 30.4mm post at a certain length , I would have a full seat tube length support tube. A piece of cake. Plus, the 30.4 seat post section is both a snug fit AND is light in weight while still being strong/rigid (after all, it is designed to support a persons weight). Having done all the above, I inspect the seat tube to be sure the upper part and the lower part are tightly pressed together. I then take a belt to secure them so separation/spreading does not occur during the “operation”. Next, I get the trusty drill and drill four holes, 2 above the break and 2 below the break. Then I get some metal screws and install them suckers. TaDa.. The operation was a success. By the way, the bike was turned upside down so the metal shavings wouldn't fall down into the bottom bracket area. I have ridden an additional 200 miles on the mighty beast since this predicament, and things are all working just fine.
Also, as soon as I fixed the KUSH, I did the seatpost operation on the SEDONA, too. I didn't have to drill holes/use screws in its case; I just dropped in the additional unit. By the way, practically every model of department store bicycle uses a 27.2 seatpost, be it aluminum or steel.
During the course of this Part 2 story, I remembered back a few years to when my Mongoose dual suspension mountain bike (WalMart special) had exactly the same breakage situation. I also fixed it by the additional seat-post support method. Worked just great then, too. (apparently, rear suspensions put ALOT of stress on the seat tube).
So, any of you folks riding any brand/model of dual suspension rear hub ebike may want to consider buying an additional seat post and dropping it down into your seat tube. You don't need to do any drilling, etc. The added rigidity will probably negate the chances of your mighty steed snapping in half at the seat tube like mine did. Lets face it, 60+ pound bikes, plus the riders weight (180-200 pounds), puts alot of stress/strain on any bike frame. I don't do any type of aerial lift-offs on my bikes. The rowdiest I ever get is “launching” off a curb.
***********************************************************************
As for the 450mm long seatpost in size 30.4 : just Google the item. Here ya go-- can't beat this price: https://www.wish.com/product/59f04508eafc30297189ed0c?hide_login_modal=true&from_ad=goog_shopping&_display_country_code=US&_force_currency_code=USD&pid=googleadwords_int&c={campaignId}&ad_cid=59f04508eafc30297189ed0c&ad_cc=US&ad_curr=USD&ad_price=13.99&campaign_id=8701430383&retargeting=true&gclid=CjwKCAjwydP5BRBREiwA-qrCGpIlQYQyeN2xJ1ta9oRMbH7xS-tTr8bpjeWwBonX0pW0pGDM__MsbRoCx0MQAvD_BwE&share=web

Be ABSOLUTELY sure to use a pipe/tubing cutter to cut this/these seatpost(s): https://www.harborfreight.com/tubin...C_aFDHekYOZFG-lwb3kgkkqhvau2JXWhoC7xcQAvD_BwE
You do not want to have to be dealing with burrs, etc. created by using a saw blade. I swear by this type of tubing cutter for all my bike stuff.
As for the "sacrificed" seatpost: just make sure that you have 2 inches of it above the break so you have something for the 2 self-tapping metal screws to grab onto. (2 screws above the break and 2 screws below the break).. A piece of cake. Use a rope or belt or strap to insure the the upper and lower sections of the frame remain nice and tightly wedged together (no gap) while you drill/screw the sacrificed seatpost section
Stuff something/anything into the bottom most section of the sacrificed seatpost so as to entrap the metal filings/shavings created by the 4 holes that will be drilled (for the screws). There's nothing down there for the shavings to muck up, but plug it anyway.
Ok, now that you have the sacrificed seatpost installed/drilled/screwed, you probably will have to "customize" your saddle mounted seatpost to fit your specific height. Again, no problemo. You only need to have 3 inches of seatpost hidden BELOW the top of the seat tube. The tubing cutter once again comes to the rescue because it makes a very clean (no burrs) cut. Go via baby steps here.
Insert the top seatpost ( the one with the seat/saddle attached). Is the seat gonna be too high? How Much-- 1", 2", etc.?? Get the tubing cutter and start whacking.. Even if you accidentally cut off too much of this top seatpost, it is no big deal. However, it is nice to know that your seat will never sink down-- because it can't. it is a simple matter to make a "spacer" to fill in the space-- anything will do plastic/metal/pvc pipe, whatever. I now use this method on all of my 8 bikes-- the correct size seatpost diameter for the ebikes and pvc pipe for the 3 "old school" bikes.. As for the pvc pipe-- it doesn't have to be a tight fit because it is just acting as a "stopper". If it's a little too loose, just wrap each end with some duct tape.. But, not too tight..

As for my KUSH: I will be posting a "15,000 mile update" soon. I currently show 14,156 miles on the odometer. Since buying this wonderful KUSH beast, I have purchased 2 more ebikes and, between the 3 ebikes, I pretty much keep myself in trouble (fun trouble, though) .
If you have any further questions, just let me know..