2021 Riese & Müller Tinker

trevorm

New Member
I've been keeping a close eye on their September announcements as I've been waiting for a new Tinker. It appears things are starting to pop up on their site, including an updated Tinker: https://www.r-m.de/en-us/bikes/tinker/

Not sure if the site update is complete, as I see a "Tinker Silent" and "Tinker Vario" in the first image carousel, but only the Silent under the model selection. Additionally, there's only a Bosch Active Line Plus config option but the images clearly show a Performance line Gen 3.

I'm going to be bummed if there's no Gen 4 or HS option this time around, but will reserve judgement until the official announcement! Just wanted to drum up some excitement for the new R&M models.
 

Ebikelova

New Member
Owner of a Tinker and am curious. I agree, if it stays as is, it will be disappointing. I was imagining a hs tinker with new motor, a beltdrive and Nyon 2 cockpit.
 
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Abeydoun

New Member
Owner of Tinker and am curious. I agree, if it stays as is, it will be disappointing. I was Imagining a hs tinker with the new motor, a beltdrive, and Nyon cockpit.
Me too. I love my CX Gen 2 Orange Tinker and would have killed for these upgrades. My guess is the 85nm torque update rendered this motor too strong for the somewhat already squirrely 20" wheels, which also precluded R&M from giving a speed model given that the Gen 4 speed is also 85nm. And since the shape of the Bosch Gen 3 Speed motor is the same shape as the previous Tinker Gen 2 motor, it would probably be too much to manufacture two separate frames.

The increased size of the chain ring should provide a ride closer to the previous CX motor given less drag, however the way the frame arcs on the back takes away from the straight, almost industrialist lines of the outgoing model. This shape can also be why the bike received a torque downgrade. As far as colors, the white is a nice color way, but doesn't hold a candle at all to the rich, automotive-grade metallic blue and orange paint jobs on the outgoing model (IMHO).

I see the Tinker now as more of an afterthought in R&M's catalog, a 20" ebike offering for city folk that needed to remain but make easier to manufacture with a simpler paint job and easier-to-obtain parts (standard chain ring / modern, less powerful motor).

The previous blue/orange Tinkers should become more desirable on the secondary market -- especially the HS models. I see Propel has a demo orange Vario up on their website. I can't imagine this would last long at all.
 

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lwoodhouse

New Member
Me too. I love my CX Gen 2 Orange Tinker and would have killed for these upgrades. My guess is the 85nm torque update rendered this motor too strong for the somewhat already squirrely 20" wheels, which also precluded R&M from giving a speed model given that the Gen 4 speed is also 85nm. And since the shape of the Bosch Gen 3 Speed motor is the same shape as the previous Tinker Gen 2 motor, it would probably be too much to manufacture two separate frames.

The increased size of the chain ring should provide a ride closer to the previous CX motor given less drag, however the way the frame arcs on the back takes away from the straight, almost industrialist lines of the outgoing model. This shape can also be why the bike received a torque downgrade. As far as colors, the white is a nice color way, but doesn't hold a candle at all to the rich, automotive-grade metallic blue and orange paint jobs on the outgoing model (IMHO).

I see the Tinker now as more of an afterthought in R&M's catalog, a 20" ebike offering for city folk that needed to remain but make easier to manufacture with a simpler paint job and easier-to-obtain parts (standard chain ring / modern, less powerful motor).

The previous blue/orange Tinkers should become more desirable on the secondary market -- especially the HS models. I see Propel has a demo orange Vario up on their website. I can't imagine this would last long at all.

If they have redesigned the frame for the Gen 3 motor then I think that pretty much rules out a Gen 4 motor option.

I was hoping for a Gen 4 with rohloff option so I am disappointed and confused as to why they have gone down this road. If the 85nm torque of the Gen 4 CX was too much why not go with the Gen 4 performance line?

I hope there are more details to come but at this stage it looks like I'll be continuing to wait for whoever releases the first Gen 4 CX compact/fold belt drive. Hopefully that won't be another whole year to wait.
 

Abeydoun

New Member
If they have redesigned the frame for the Gen 3 motor then I think that pretty much rules out a Gen 4 motor option.

I was hoping for a Gen 4 with rohloff option so I am disappointed and confused as to why they have gone down this road. If the 85nm torque of the Gen 4 CX was too much why not go with the Gen 4 performance line?

I hope there are more details to come but at this stage it looks like I'll be continuing to wait for whoever releases the first Gen 4 CX compact/fold belt drive. Hopefully that won't be another whole year to wait.
I was hoping for one too. There is no Gen 4 performance line outside of the speed variant which is the same shape as the Gen 4 CX motor. I would at this point wait to see what Tern does with the Vektron. However I can’t imagine there would be a CX motor on it, maybe the same performance line gen 3 motor. Unfortunately compactness doesn’t seem to be a priority for these e bike companies at the moment, cargo bikes sell more and are more expensive. I’ve always been amazed that the smaller Tinker had the same engine as R&M’s other top shelf bikes. It’s sad to see that they have downgraded it. Personally I think that the Gazelle Medeo T10+ is the bike to beat right now. Gen 4 Performance Line speed on a $3500 bike with all the creature comforts of a suspension fork, cafe lock, internal battery, 4 piston brakes. Not compact at all, but lighter than the tinker and will leave you with enough funds to buy all of the wall and/or car racks you will ever need :)
 

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trevorm

New Member
I was hoping for one too. There is no Gen 4 performance line outside of the speed variant which is the same shape as the Gen 4 CX motor. I would at this point wait to see what Tern does with the Vektron. However I can’t imagine there would be a CX motor on it, maybe the same performance line gen 3 motor. Unfortunately compactness doesn’t seem to be a priority for these e bike companies at the moment, cargo bikes sell more and are more expensive. I’ve always been amazed that the smaller Tinker had the same engine as R&M’s other top shelf bikes. It’s sad to see that they have downgraded it. Personally I think that the Gazelle Medeo T10+ is the bike to beat right now. Gen 4 Performance Line speed on a $3500 bike with all the creature comforts of a suspension fork, cafe lock, internal battery, 4 piston brakes. Not compact at all, but lighter than the tinker and will leave you with enough funds to buy all of the wall and/or car racks you will ever need :)

I totally agree with your earlier sentiments about the Tinker now being an afterthought for R&M. Really sad, as I was excited to see what a company like R&M would do with a compact bike.

I will also be waiting to see what happens with the Vektron, though I'm not holding my breath. They've been slapping Active Lines in there for 2 generations, so I'd be surprised if they suddenly made the jump to a Gen 4 Performance/CX, especially if it requires a redesign. There doesn't seem to be much competition among premium compact/folding bikes, so not sure why they'd bother to update or redesign sooner than they have to.

As a city-dweller who has to carry a bike up stairs and store it inside both at home and work, I've been frustrated at the lack of quality compact options. I have a Qualisports Dolphin at the moment, and while it's a great bike for the money, there's no doubt it's a $1200 bike.

I wish I knew something about bike design, because then I'd just make my own.
 

Zenusb

New Member
Thank you guys for your input. My biggest disappointment is actually the .. color!

Even if I am also a bit disappointed, I just want to give you some thoughts from an European point of view as to why they ditched the HS and didn't rework it to adapt a Gen 4.

The legislation around speed pedelecs in Europe is very punitive. It is almost impossible to insure it, which is mandatory, and getting it registered will take you at least a month, costs a bit and will leave you with a very fancy yellow plate on the back of your bike, similar to the ones on normal scooters...

In addition, while the Gen2 was already great for the US market thanks to the 20 mph speed assistance limitation, pedalling past the 15 mph EU limitation was very problematic due to the reduction gear and was forcing people to either tune it or ride an illegal HS version..

Here, while the update could have been a bit more exciting with a gen4 motor, R&M still solve these two problems, without raising the price thanks to a limited variation of the frame.

I am just again very surprised by the lack of creativity regarding colors....
 

trevorm

New Member
Thank you guys for your input. My biggest disappointment is actually the .. color!

Even if I am also a bit disappointed, I just want to give you some thoughts from an European point of view as to why they ditched the HS and didn't rework it to adapt a Gen 4.

The legislation around speed pedelecs in Europe is very punitive. It is almost impossible to insure it, which is mandatory, and getting it registered will take you at least a month, costs a bit and will leave you with a very fancy yellow plate on the back of your bike, similar to the ones on normal scooters...

In addition, while the Gen2 was already great for the US market thanks to the 20 mph speed assistance limitation, pedalling past the 15 mph EU limitation was very problematic due to the reduction gear and was forcing people to either tune it or ride an illegal HS version..

Here, while the update could have been a bit more exciting with a gen4 motor, R&M still solve these two problems, without raising the price thanks to a limited variation of the frame.

I am just again very surprised by the lack of creativity regarding colors....

Thanks for the European perspective, that all makes sense. I was aware of how strict Europe is with the bikes, so always found it interesting that R&M actually offered a 28 mph version. Guess they weren’t selling enough to justify keeping the alternate model around. Hopefully as the US market grows, we’ll start to see more options.

Do you know what the physical/mechanical limitation is to doing a 28 mph bike with the Enviolo hub? Obviously the HS used a chain, so I figured it was to do with the Enviolo and/or belt.
 

Zenusb

New Member
Thanks for the European perspective, that all makes sense. I was aware of how strict Europe is with the bikes, so always found it interesting that R&M actually offered a 28 mph version. Guess they weren’t selling enough to justify keeping the alternate model around. Hopefully as the US market grows, we’ll start to see more options.

Do you know what the physical/mechanical limitation is to doing a 28 mph bike with the Enviolo hub? Obviously the HS used a chain, so I figured it was to do with the Enviolo and/or belt.


Chains are more efficient in terms of power transmission. In addition the range provided by a normal derailleur is higher than the one delivered by continuous hubs, which means that it is easier to maintain higher speeds without pedalling like a hamster.
 

sj222

New Member
Hi guys and gals, question, is the rack of the tinker too low to ever put a child seat like thule yepp on? Just ordered a 2020 tinker and trying to figure out the best way to occasionally accomodate a young child. Our other bike is a packster which will usually carry the kids.
 

Abeydoun

New Member
It all makes sense now.. this will be on the new Tinkers in short order. Perfect for it, high speed, not as much torque as the gen 4, and little drag due to 1:1 relationship.
 

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User54

Member
Hi, sorry to disappoint you but the US, NZL and Canadian versions of the Tinker silent will remain with the Gen3 Active Line Plus Drive Unit and the Tinker Vari CX for those countries will keep the Gen2 CX.
All other countries in Europe have the Gen3 performance with assist up to 25km/h as the mentioned drive unit in the picture is US and NZL only
 

lwoodhouse

New Member
For anyone interested, I did end up finding a compact with a Gen4 CX and have ordered the i:SY DrivE RE-14 ZR/M. They added the Gen4 CX motor to this model in 2020 but I couldn't find any in stock (that would ship internationally) so waiting for the 2021 models to go into production. Most of the other i:SY models use the Gen3, so the Gen4 motor is mounted with a bracket. It doesn't look as tidy as the Gen3 packaging but I don't mind, I want the extra power. Most of their catalog shots have the belt side of the bike, this is a shot of the side where you can see the bracket:

isy_re14.jpg


A distributor has offered to ship internationally without the battery as that is tricky to do. There are some local shops that sell the battery so it should work out ok.