25km/h? 32? 45? 60? What speed do you *actually* want on your e-bike?

Mass Deduction

Active Member
what kind of bike do you have?
His point was a legal restriction, if I understood him correctly.

Most of the big companies (Trek, Specialized, etc.) won't sell class-3 e-bikes in Canada.

Most of Canada, they're not allowed. In British Columbia, however, it seems to be a grey area. The rule here is that you can't be assisted past 32 km/h without pedalling. But with a class-3 e-bike without a throttle, you are pedalling when it assists you past 32.
 

Mass Deduction

Active Member
Personally, I’d be a little concerned about approaching those kind of speeds w/o a full face style helmet. Facial reconstruction and dental implants are painful and expensive.
I’ve gradually upped my speed over the last year, but I draw the line at 30 mph, (downhill, no traffic) just because I’m older, my bones don’t heal as fast as they used to, and my bike handling skills aren’t that advanced.
It is a thrill flying downhill that quickly, though. I can see the attraction.
I recommend the Bell Super Air. It's the lightest-weight and best ventilated full-face helmet that I know of, that also has a removable chin-bar so that you can also use it as a regular helmet (so it's two helmets in one).
 

Timpo

Well-Known Member
His point was a legal restriction, if I understood him correctly.

Most of the big companies (Trek, Specialized, etc.) won't sell class-3 e-bikes in Canada.

Most of Canada, they're not allowed. In British Columbia, however, it seems to be a grey area. The rule here is that you can't be assisted past 32 km/h without pedalling. But with a class-3 e-bike without a throttle, you are pedalling when it assists you past 32.
Okay, that "without pedaling" part sounds like, if you're pedaling, you can go over 32km/h.

I would interpret that as 32km/h max for throttle only.
However if you pedal, you can go beyond that, because you're not just twisting a throttle, you're actually cycling.
 

Roxlimn

Member
I'm pretty okay with 32 kph. It's a reasonable speed and that's how fast most people can cruise on a muscle bike. I do not think most of the heavier speed pedelecs are safe to operate. Once you're hitting 45 kph, you're doing moped speed so you should have componentry and features akin to a motorcycle and you should also be outfitted accordingly. Past that, you're basically operating a motorcycle so you should be trained and outfitted accordingly. The bike componentry must also be motorcycle-grade.

Most people haven't crashed at 40 kph on a bicycle. I have. And it was not even as bad as it could have been. It's very high-energy and I broke both bones in my right forearm. It could have been worse, and I had road rash all along my right side. A bicycle capable of going at 45 kph on public roads should have thicker wheels, full suspension, and crash and performance-testing. And a license should be mandatory.
 

Mass Deduction

Active Member
I'm pretty okay with 32 kph. It's a reasonable speed and that's how fast most people can cruise on a muscle bike. I do not think most of the heavier speed pedelecs are safe to operate. Once you're hitting 45 kph, you're doing moped speed so you should have componentry and features akin to a motorcycle and you should also be outfitted accordingly. Past that, you're basically operating a motorcycle so you should be trained and outfitted accordingly. The bike componentry must also be motorcycle-grade.

Most people haven't crashed at 40 kph on a bicycle. I have. And it was not even as bad as it could have been. It's very high-energy and I broke both bones in my right forearm. It could have been worse, and I had road rash all along my right side. A bicycle capable of going at 45 kph on public roads should have thicker wheels, full suspension, and crash and performance-testing. And a license should be mandatory.
I'm OK with cyclists being licenced, especially for e-bikes, and most especially for class-3 bikes. I have no problem with a cyclist being forced to demonstrate that they understand the rules of the road! I don't have a driver's licence, so I've never had to prove to anyone that I even know what the street signs mean, let alone the finer details, and that seems strange (even to me!).

I wear body armour as a base layer underneath my clothing on my e-bike (or, when it's really hot out, just the armour by itself). My armour might be lighter duty than you'd prefer, but I at least wear both upper body armour and lower body armour. They have body armour now that is so lightweight, so malleable, so breathable, and with hardpoints that harden on contact, that there's no good reason (aside from cost) to not wear it every single ride. I have multiple sets so I can be wearing one while the others are in the wash.

I always wear a helmet, absolutely *no* exceptions. When it comes to helmet, I'm a true believer. I don't wear a full-face helmet, but this discussion has me re-thinking that. Maybe I'll give the Bell Super Air a try.

In general I agree with you that if you're regularly riding a lot faster than 32 km/h that you should be armoured up. I also include road cyclists and others who're givin' 'er in this category, not just people riding class-3 e-bikes. I actually call minimalist armour like the ones I linked to "road armour" as it's less than what most mountain bikers should be wearing (at least most mountain bikers in British Columbia! ;) ).
 

Daggs

New Member
Personally, I’d be a little concerned about approaching those kind of speeds w/o a full face style helmet. Facial reconstruction and dental implants are painful and expensive.
I’ve gradually upped my speed over the last year, but I draw the line at 30 mph, (downhill, no traffic) just because I’m older, my bones don’t heal as fast as they used to, and my bike handling skills aren’t that advanced.
It is a thrill flying downhill that quickly, though. I can see the attraction.
Hi Toomanycats, I’m old (56) but I get tired of riding at 25kph on the pedals when I can get from A to B in half the time with PAS or throttle. My solution is to ride with regard to traffic, weather conditions and maintain your vehicle. Yeah you’re right, as we get older we don’t heal as quickly.
 

Slowpoke

Member
I'm good with my Class 1 R&M Delight.Now with torque sensor in eco mode I easly ride a steady 15 mph.My other ebike I ride pass 1 at 11-13 mph.
 

indianajo

Well-Known Member
I wear body armour as a base layer underneath my clothing on my e-bike (or, when it's really hot out, just the armour by itself). My armour might be lighter duty than you'd prefer, but I at least wear both upper body armour and lower body armour. They have body armour now that is so lightweight, so malleable, so breathable, and with hardpoints that harden on contact, that there's no good reason (aside from cost) to not wear it every single ride. When it comes to helmet, I'm a true believer. I don't wear a full-face helmet, but this discussion has me re-thinking that. Maybe I'll give the Bell Super Air a try.
In general I agree with you that if you're regularly riding a lot faster than 32 km/h that you should be armoured up.
I've hit the road at 40 kph on a pedal bike: with my chin, which broke. And the forearms, which were wearing long sleeved poly/cotton mechanic's tunic. Also cotton work gloves. My "road rash" was so minor, I wouldn't even call it that. A little redness, like a class 1 sunburn. Needed 7 stiches in my chin, then teeth were wired shut for Thanksgiving, Christmas, new years. I had tried to buy a helmet with chin guard the summer before that, no sale. Full closed visor no vents motorcycle helmets or skinny bicycle slivers was all anybody could find me. I'm riding a Fox rampage helmet now, nicely ventilated so the sweat doesn't drip in my eyes at 100 deg F. Competitivecyclist.com had them, but wouldn't show them to me, "javascript error" was all I got. Somebody on this website found it for me, the secret search term is "downhill mountain bike racing helmet". Bright yellow lettering too, which matches the yellow/green reflective stripe vest I wear. I'm still wearing dickies and red hat poly/cotton work clothing, seems entirely adequate if you don't hit a bridge abutment.
Not slowing down with electricity, hit 48 kph downhill pretty frequently out in the country.
 

christob

Well-Known Member
Anyone with a 45 km/h bike that would be content with a little less? If you could set each mode of assist independently, would you and (if so) what would you set each mode to?

So my question is, if your e-bike was tuneable, what would you tune it to? Would you tune each mode of assist to the same top speed, or would you create a selection of top assisted speeds for different places you ride?
Rear hub, class III here with five levels of assist. In the first few months of riding, after 25 years off a bike, I generally rode around in level 3 a lot. As I built stamina and strength, I gradually lowered my use of assist, and now ride almost entirely in level 1 and sometimes level 0 (assist off). I basically never used level 5 except to experience it once or twice for fun... it would drain the battery too fast for my preferences today, where I like to get 80-100 miles between charge cycles.
The power output as a percentage of capacity, is technically adjustable on this bike. When a new controller had to be installed, I got the newer upgraded hardware that enabled configuring those five levels via Bluetooth; out of the box the new controller arrived with much higher assistance set at the lower levels than I was used to with the old controller. New level 1 now gave way too much assistance for my tastes, so the vendor helped guide me through changing the levels back to their former percentage values.
That means I could reprogram the upper levels to provide less assistance; level 5, which currently provides 100% capacity, could be set to a lower value never enabling me to use 100% of the capacity. This would let me select more assist levels during rides, while preventing me from burning through the charge too quickly… But I already manage that (ie extend range) by staying in level 1 predominately; so I’ve never tweaked “down” level 5 settings... because I never use 5 (nor 4 or 3, for that matter, these days!)
 

Balinus

Member
I'm currently riding a Felt Sport-E. I switched to it because it has a STePS E8000 motor. That motor, and that motor alone that I am aware of, allows tuning both the level of assist and the top speed individually for each level of assist.

Once I learned about that, I swapped to a bike that had that. The first thing I did was make low and medium assist more powerful, so that I wouldn't ride in high assist as often. Then I started tweaking the top speeds, some up, some down. It'll void your warranty, etc., etc., just as you'd expect. :)
Hello!

How the performance of the E8000 over 32km/h? Can you really sustain a 40-45km/h with this motor? just wondering because I haven't found a "class 3" bike with the E-8000 motor.
Thanks!
 

Mass Deduction

Active Member
Hello!

How the performance of the E8000 over 32km/h? Can you really sustain a 40-45km/h with this motor? just wondering because I haven't found a "class 3" bike with the E-8000 motor.
Thanks!
Shimano only sells 25 and 32 km/h bikes, period. So you won't find a class 3 with a Shimano motor at this time, no.

It works great past 32 km/h. Yes, I can sustain 40-45 with this motor on flat ground, when I choose to create a mode that goes that high. I mostly ride with it set at 38 km/h, though.
 

McCorby

Member
Hi MD,
What Shimano display do you have to allow re programming. Do you know if you can reprogram using the the SC-E6010 display
No, the SC-E6010 does not have Bluetooth. You will need the SC-E6100 display and most likely the motor’s firmware updated, so it will recognize the SC-E6100 display. That’s what I did anyway.
Edit: Shimano‘s E-TUBE app doesn’t allow you to change top speed. I think there are other apps that allow it, but I personally haven’t tried. 20mph is good enough for me.
 
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Mass Deduction

Active Member
No, the SC-E6010 does not have Bluetooth. You will need the SC-E6100 display and most likely the motor’s firmware updated, so it will recognize the SC-E6100 display. That’s what I did anyway.
Edit: Shimano‘s E-TUBE app doesn’t allow you to change top speed. I think there are other apps that allow it, but I personally haven’t tried. 20mph is good enough for me.
Yes, you need to use unofficial software and potentially void your warranty to speed tune an E8000 motor.

It's possible to speed tune an E8000 motor with an E6010 display by using a physical cable rather than using bluetooth. Shimano will sell the cable kit to consumers but it costs hundreds of dollars and it may cost as much or less to upgrade to an E8000 display which you can speed tune over bluetooth. To the best of my knowledge it's not possible to speed tune an E8000 motor using software-only with an E6100 display (or an E7000 screen), because to do so you need to use an old firmware that came out before the newer models. So you're limited to doing it with the E6010 display over a cable or the E8000 screen over bluetooth.

The first thing I did when speed tuning was drop the speed of one of the three modes to 25 km/h, so speed tuning isn't just about higher speeds! :) The fact that you can set every mode of assist separately is the killer app with the E8000 motor for me.
 

FlatSix911

Well-Known Member
I am sticking with a simple speed tuning device that works with all motor, display and software versions.

 

McCorby

Member
I am sticking with a simple speed tuning device that works with all motor, display and software versions.

They don’t appear to ship to the US.....or am I missing something?
 

Mass Deduction

Active Member
I am sticking with a simple speed tuning device that works with all motor, display and software versions.

Does that lets you set different top speeds for each mode of assist? Because I don't want the bike derestricted (I have no desire for the bike to assist me when I'm pedalling down hills, for example). I want it restricted to a larger range of speeds, and each PAS level set to a different top speed. If there's a device that lets me do that, and lets me do it on the latest firmware, then I'd potentially consider it. Though I am more software-handy than I am hardware-handy, so a software-only solution is good for me in that regard. :)
 
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