30 Chinese Cities are on Level 1 lockdown

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Handlebars

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Canada
Wow- this is weird to see your post 3 months later .... not to hijack your post, but was there more detail about this and was it Covid 19 related?
They won't tell the public anything. The only thing said by the institution back then was a lie given by a low level spokesperson.
I haven't checked recently to see if anything more has been revealed because we just never get the truth of misdeeds here in Canada, all parties working together to prevent the public from gaining knowledge.
But it's time I checked again. Thanks, baxterblack.
 
D

Deleted member 4210

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afraid this might happen... (and no reason this can't also occur in the US. Waves of re-continuing spread once lockdowns are lifted.)


Reuters reported that a county in central China's Henan province announced on Wednesday it had "virtually banned all outbound movement of people, following several cases of coronavirus infection in the area."

According to a post on its social media account, Jia county - which has a population of about 600,000 - said that no one can travel out of Jia county without proper authorization. Additionally, residents are not allowed to leave their homes for work unless they have clearance to do so."

According to local media reports, on March 29, Henan Province broke its 30-day streak of reporting no new coronavirus cases, saying one person tested positive after a trip to Pingdingshan, where Jia County is located. Specifically, on Saturday, Henan province reported one confirmed case in Luohe city; local authorities said the infected person had been in contact with two doctors based in Jia county who later tested positive for the virus even though they had showed no symptoms.

As a result, Bloomberg adds that starting April 1, all residential compounds will be under "closed-off management" and all residents need to wear masks and have temperature taken entering or exiting the compounds.
 

FlatSix911

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USA
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Silicon Valley
Here is a bit of positive news related to the pandemic...London health workers are being loaned e-bikes to avoid public transport during the COVID-19 crisis. ;)

E-bikes to the rescue

London National Health Service workers can get a three-month loan of e-bikes in a new scheme so they can get to work quickly and more cheaply, and also avoid public transport. There is a reduced train service running in London, which means train crowds are denser. This puts everyone at risk of spreading coronavirus. Bike shops have been given essential status in the UK, and business is booming. (E-bike use is also up in New York City.)

London e-bike retailer Fully Charged is working with GoCycle, the Bicycle Association, Abus, and Fat Llama to provide the bikes and helmets, and it has made an appeal for more partners, to include bike manufacturers and distributors, cycle clothing manufacturers and distributors, cycle lock manufacturers, insurance providers, and sponsors. (If you are any of the above and can help, please get in touch at nhsebikes@fullycharged.com.) Raleigh is expected to join the scheme soon.

There are currently 20 Gocycle GS loaner e-bikes available, and clearly a lot more are needed. (We reviewed the GoCycle GX in December if you’re interested in learning more about the company’s e-bikes.)
And if you are a London health worker (or know someone who is, and who would benefit from this scheme) and would like to borrow an e-bike, you can register your interest here.

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D

Deleted member 4210

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I've heard that the hands are the most common way of introduction. I'd buy into that.
So where's the numbers? Why are scientists silent on the numbers or do they even have numbers or data at all?
"No data" means something to me.


"Most common" only means more than any single other way. It doesn't even mean more than 50%
"Much" is even less informative. Food labels are often very deceptive in that the first ingredient is often assumed to be over 50%, but in reality it could well be 10% of total, when there is a list of ingredients close to the same % , or if the list is long. Also if the first listed ingredient is included within brackets along with others, it can be misleading as to percentages.

It would never be wise to dismiss ingredients in the field of medicine. 85% or 49% could kill and so might 10%. First "ingredient" could potentially be VERY low.


That brings in 2 questions then...the question of why the authorities voice grave concern that a run on masks will keep medical staff from having them, and the question of why they dismiss saving just a few transmissions, when the spread potential of a few is exponential.

And where's their numbers? "No numbers" means "not science". "Not science" being aggressively pushed means untruthfulness potential is high.

When they talk about it, vis a vis HANDS are they talking about receiving or transmitting or both? Receiving is my bet.
And that is deceptive.
Singapore identified this early on and stopped the spread of infection nearly immediately, by mandating (of hospital staff) washing of hands with soap and water, not so-called "sanitizers", before and after each contact with a person or thing that could potentially be infected. By doing that they dropped the infection rate of their hospital staff to a statistical zero and almost immediately thereafter the outbreak there was under control. They still get a case here and there, but the simple fact is that despite the screams of horror about community spread, the facts are that it isn't that easy for social transmission of this bug to take place, except through super-spreading events.

If it was, then the mitigating factors would have had an immediate and dramatic impact, and they have not. Further, Singapore couldn't have stopped transmission to health care workers (if it was airborne primarily and they were just wearing masks) by mandating strict hand hygiene standards, but they did.

We have repeatedly seen this pattern -- where you have a case here and there, a few people show up in the hospital and then the sudden exponential explosion in that locality occurs after failing to follow the predicted geometric progression for weeks -- and it happens in city after city. "Social distancing" doesn't stop or reverse it, and neither do "stay at home" orders, even when backed up with the threat of fines or worse. New York is a leading example of this. Their Rnaught (spread rate) is just not changing after the lockdowns and social distancing. This means the primary vector is the hospitals themselves. That is exactly why Dr. Zuban Damania emphasized very directly, that hospital staff must was their hands religiously. (he knows foro experience this is not occurring). If this was mostly airborne transmission, then the lockdowns would have had dramatic effects in every single country, and R naught would have dropped below 2.7 in the clusters where it has gotten a foothold. It hasn't - data series after data series is showing Rnaught is staying up around 2.7 to 3.0 during lockdowns after after several weeks. Its maybe dropping about a .5 of a point. This is still significantly above the spread of the common flu which is just below 1.0. This has been why WHO and CDC has since day 1 not been advocating masks. They may relent now, bc lockdowns aren't slowing, but the masks will only give everyone a very false sense of security.

The 3 primary things Singapore did per Dr. Z: (Zuban Damania)
1) Doctors and all staff in hospitals washed hands with soap and water (not just sanitizers) between every patient visit. And other staff regularly sanitized all surfaces.
2) Maintained social distancing WITHIN the hospitals, meaning eliminating all doctor to doctor or inhouse staff meetings, AND, social distancing within all waiting areas, limiting number of people within them.
3) Tracked down all people who had contact with infected individuals, and tested all these people as quickly as possible, and quarantined all of them who had contact with the infected patient. Testing was very key, and he noted we aren't doing it enough, or properly to the right targeted segments. He admitted this was very hard but doable. Temperature taking was another element, requiring hospital staff to do this twice per day. Before and after shifts.

The above is a paraphrase of Dr. Z's informative videos, and that of Karl Denninger, who while not a doctor, has been very prescient calling a lot of what's been happening since mid January and has been pretty much spot on.


Note that Dr.Z also said, Wuhan's doctors also figured this out, and this is how they got things under control, which occurred AFTER they had urgently brought in thousands of doctors from around China, since Wuhan was a total disaster and doctors and nurses were getting infected at such a high rate they didn't have enough staff to carry on, back in late January and February. All the information out there has been very mixed, very overwhelming, but when you zero in on the right people who are showing consistency, using evidence, and there is real common sense stuff that can't be disputed, and multiple of these people who don't know each other are providing layers of corroboration, the story becomes rather clear as to what is effective, and what is not. It appears to me further, that the changes will need to happen at a 'grass roots' level within these hospitals through the efforts of people like Dr. Z, and other clinicians on the front lines, sharing their stories with their brethren in the health community across the country. I'm not seeing evidence that people like Dr. Fauci, or even Dr. Birx are communicating these solutions, and if they are they certainly aren't saying this publicly to the American people. Maybe they are all afraid, hospitals would get a really bad rap from this. Personally, I have been in the hospitals way too many times over past years, due to family and relatives needing to go in, and once myself for MRSA about 12 years ago, and I can attest, I never once saw any of these people, go to the sinks that are in each room and ICU, wash their hands, before engaging with the patients, and then wash them again before leaving. The only person I have ever seen do this, is my primary care physician. Scares the heck out of me when I see dry sinks, no soap dispensers nearby, and no handtowels in any room of hospitals that I have had the unfortunate experience of being in way too many times. How many people as patients even think about this ? Do you assume these professionals wash their hands do it elsewhere ? Then try observing them moving from room to room, or bed to bed when in a larger area with only curtains between patients. Nitrile Gloves being on arent the answer either. You also have to wash after you remove them.
 

Handlebars

Well-Known Member
Region
Canada
Singapore identified this early on and stopped the spread of infection nearly immediately, by mandating (of hospital staff) washing of hands with soap and water, not so-called "sanitizers", before and after each contact with a person or thing that could potentially be infected. By doing that they dropped the infection rate of their hospital staff to a statistical zero and almost immediately thereafter the outbreak there was under control. They still get a case here and there, but the simple fact is that despite the screams of horror about community spread, the facts are that it isn't that easy for social transmission of this bug to take place, except through super-spreading events.

If it was, then the mitigating factors would have had an immediate and dramatic impact, and they have not. Further, Singapore couldn't have stopped transmission to health care workers (if it was airborne primarily and they were just wearing masks) by mandating strict hand hygiene standards, but they did.

We have repeatedly seen this pattern -- where you have a case here and there, a few people show up in the hospital and then the sudden exponential explosion in that locality occurs after failing to follow the predicted geometric progression for weeks -- and it happens in city after city. "Social distancing" doesn't stop or reverse it, and neither do "stay at home" orders, even when backed up with the threat of fines or worse. New York is a leading example of this. Their Rnaught (spread rate) is just not changing after the lockdowns and social distancing. This means the primary vector is the hospitals themselves. That is exactly why Dr. Zuban Damania emphasized very directly, that hospital staff must was their hands religiously. (he knows foro experience this is not occurring). If this was mostly airborne transmission, then the lockdowns would have had dramatic effects in every single country, and R naught would have dropped below 2.7 in the clusters where it has gotten a foothold. It hasn't - data series after data series is showing Rnaught is staying up around 2.7 to 3.0 during lockdowns after after several weeks. Its maybe dropping about a .5 of a point. This is still significantly above the spread of the common flu which is just below 1.0. This has been why WHO and CDC has since day 1 not been advocating masks. They may relent now, bc lockdowns aren't slowing, but the masks will only give everyone a very false sense of security.

The 3 primary things Singapore did per Dr. Z: (Zuban Damania)
1) Doctors and all staff in hospitals washed hands with soap and water (not just sanitizers) between every patient visit. And other staff regularly sanitized all surfaces.
2) Maintained social distancing WITHIN the hospitals, meaning eliminating all doctor to doctor or inhouse staff meetings, AND, social distancing within all waiting areas, limiting number of people within them.
3) Tracked down all people who had contact with infected individuals, and tested all these people as quickly as possible, and quarantined all of them who had contact with the infected patient. Testing was very key, and he noted we aren't doing it enough, or properly to the right targeted segments. He admitted this was very hard but doable. Temperature taking was another element, requiring hospital staff to do this twice per day. Before and after shifts.

The above is a paraphrase of Dr. Z's informative videos, and that of Karl Denninger, who while not a doctor, has been very prescient calling a lot of what's been happening since mid January and has been pretty much spot on.


Note that Dr.Z also said, Wuhan's doctors also figured this out, and this is how they got things under control, which occurred AFTER they had urgently brought in thousands of doctors from around China, since Wuhan was a total disaster and doctors and nurses were getting infected at such a high rate they didn't have enough staff to carry on, back in late January and February. All the information out there has been very mixed, very overwhelming, but when you zero in on the right people who are showing consistency, using evidence, and there is real common sense stuff that can't be disputed, and multiple of these people who don't know each other are providing layers of corroboration, the story becomes rather clear as to what is effective, and what is not. It appears to me further, that the changes will need to happen at a 'grass roots' level within these hospitals through the efforts of people like Dr. Z, and other clinicians on the front lines, sharing their stories with their brethren in the health community across the country. I'm not seeing evidence that people like Dr. Fauci, or even Dr. Birx are communicating these solutions, and if they are they certainly aren't saying this publicly to the American people. Maybe they are all afraid, hospitals would get a really bad rap from this. Personally, I have been in the hospitals way too many times over past years, due to family and relatives needing to go in, and once myself for MRSA about 12 years ago, and I can attest, I never once saw any of these people, go to the sinks that are in each room and ICU, wash their hands, before engaging with the patients, and then wash them again before leaving. The only person I have ever seen do this, is my primary care physician. Scares the heck out of me when I see dry sinks, no soap dispensers nearby, and no handtowels in any room of hospitals that I have had the unfortunate experience of being in way too many times. How many people as patients even think about this ? Do you assume these professionals wash their hands do it elsewhere ? Then try observing them moving from room to room, or bed to bed when in a larger area with only curtains between patients. Nitrile Gloves being on arent the answer either. You also have to wash after you remove them.

Thank you, Mike! This is very good, I like the underlying ideas of the explanations but I see a real problem with the narrative, that needs to be addressed.
Further, Singapore couldn't have stopped transmission to health care workers (if it was airborne primarily and they were just wearing masks) by mandating strict hand hygiene standards, but they did.

If you pay attention to doctors and dentists they often present themselves with a mask down, then put the mask back up for examination or operation. The mask is not changed between patients, but gloves are changed...then they use the fresh glove to take hold of the outside of the mask and place it over their nose and mouth, then proceed to operate, touching the patient with what was on the outside of the mask from the previous patients.

I suggest a narrative alteration, to speaking about "airways and droplets" sometimes, instead of predominantly "airborne". Also the narrative should not be so rigid.
One of the biggest of problems in North America would then AGAIN be turned back to being a lack of fresh masks problem, rather than masks still being narrative-trashed.

Nitrile Gloves being on arent the answer either. You also have to wash after you remove them.
When properly handled in removal most of the problem is mitigated; you remove the first glove by pinching it with gloved hand and ball it up in the gloved hand. You then have one bare hand, and you slip a bare finger UNDER the remaining glove to peel it off including the previous balled up glove. Glove to glove, skin to skin.
Safe mask removal also takes proper technique. But point taken - you should also wash even if using proper removal techniques.
The narratives have been far too rigid and so the public knows they are wrong in some way.

2) Maintained social distancing WITHIN the hospitals, meaning eliminating all doctor to doctor or inhouse staff meetings, AND, social distancing within all waiting areas, limiting number of people within them.
Singapore didn't ONLY use hand washing to eliminate medical staff spread, they restricted airway to airway transmission, and airway to hand transmission as well.

So the narrative is very good but way too rigid, because smart people who are not about to go to a hospital these days are still obviously at risk in elevators and in stores and public transport from people coughing in their face. I've had it happen twice in elevator while I was wearing mask, extra 3M filter, goggles, and shemaugh.
These top medical officials and explainers are doing a HORRIBLE job in telling people to not wear masks. They have destroyed whatever trust an intelligent person could have in their advice and even created a backlash.

I'm not seeing evidence that people like Dr. Fauci, or even Dr. Birx are communicating these solutions, and if they are they certainly aren't saying this publicly to the American people. Maybe they are all afraid, hospitals would get a really bad rap from this.
My appraisal of Fauci and Adams is that they are at this point, butt-covering self-interested lying no-goods because they neglected their duty to prepare the nation with advice on medical supplies - and instead support the abomination that is Tedros and the WHO telling everyone that there is low risk and that the regime in China did great and keep the borders open to China, you xenophobes.
 
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Mr. Coffee

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A Demented Corner of the North Cascades
I was just reading in the morning paper that the virus can be smaller than the .3 micron size these masks are rated for BUT they are still somewhat effective? https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/coronavirus-pollution-masks-n95-surgical-mask/

Yes, the virus is smaller than the filter size, but the chunks you blow that the virus hitches a ride on are larger. When you cough you aren't spraying pure virus particles, but slimy water droplets containing pathogens including this virus.
 

Mr. Coffee

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Region
USA
City
A Demented Corner of the North Cascades
@Deleted Member 4210 ,

You made some very interesting points.

What I don't understand is that in Washington social distancing measures have been formally in place for two weeks, and informally (based on the reduction in commuter traffic from traffic cams in the Seattle area) for about three weeks. Best evidence is that the doubling period has increased from 3-4 days to 10-12 days, and R0 has decreased from ~3.5 to ~1.4. If social distancing didn't work how did that happen? A similar pattern appears to be emerging in the Bay Area as well, which started social distancing a little bit later than Seattle. We should know for sure about the Bay Area in the coming week.

If you look at case growth curves, Seattle looks a lot more like Daegu (South Korea) than New York or Milan. I don't think anybody really knows why and it seems like figuring that out would be a big deal.

It is true that neither South Korea nor Taiwan implemented a lockdown, but there are reports of multiple new clusters in South Korea and it isn't entirely clear that their approach (mainly testing and contact tracing on an industrial scale) is going to keep working. So that story isn't yet finished.

Two things to keep in mind that make it hard to draw conclusions from raw case counts: the first is that 75% to 85% of people infected have symptoms that are either very mild or have no symptoms at all (so they probably get missed from the counts), and the second is that when the case counts are very small there will be a lot of noise in the signal that makes it harder to pick out exponential growth.
 

Handlebars

Well-Known Member
Region
Canada
I'm pretty sure that Trump has the right track on medical interventions, over his foolish officials who are guilty of not preparing the nation, now trying their best to down sensible options without being too obvious.
This person is just one of many from a community that's been hit extra hard due to travel to China and lots of personal close contact within, but thankfully have doctors taking up the Choroquine type medicines route quickly .
 

Handlebars

Well-Known Member
Region
Canada
@Deleted Member 4210 ,

You made some very interesting points.

What I don't understand is that in Washington social distancing measures have been formally in place for two weeks, and informally (based on the reduction in commuter traffic from traffic cams in the Seattle area) for about three weeks. Best evidence is that the doubling period has increased from 3-4 days to 10-12 days, and R0 has decreased from ~3.5 to ~1.4. If social distancing didn't work how did that happen?

The narratives need to be less rigid in order to explain phenomena being seen.
Obviously complete social isolation would prevent any infections. Therefore nobody should be saying it doesn't work. But since only partial implementation is possible and only partial acceptance is possible, and only partial correct application is possible, it cannot be a single item held out as the answer.
Overall, most of us are going to die if they shut down the economy due to screaming ninnies who advocated getting together for food festivals and having open borders just weeks ago.
 

gorse

Member
Yes, the virus is smaller than the filter size, but the chunks you blow that the virus hitches a ride on are larger. When you cough you aren't spraying pure virus particles, but slimy water droplets containing pathogens including this virus.

Trump says you can just use a scarf😷😷😷
 

Handlebars

Well-Known Member
Region
Canada
Trump says you can just use a scarf😷😷😷
Partial protection is better than none. Inventive people went to India to save lives by showing how clean fabric folded over ten times cleans water to a safe level. So does pouring through a bed of sand in a barrel.
Filtering is always partial. But it can be life saving:

 

Deacon Blues

Well-Known Member
Trump and his republican gang of greedy thugs had months on end to prepare America for this viral infection, but did nothing.
Same thing can be said for almost all of the Western governments, including Canada, Italy, Spain, France......
They all saw this virus coming and procrastinated until it was too late.
It doesn't help that the Chinese government hid the virus from the world for two to three weeks and disappeared anyone who tried to warn the world.
 
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