36v hall effect voltage same as 48 v hall effect?

indianajo

Well-Known Member
I have a 36 v bafang geared hub motor bought from batteryclearance warehouse in April per TJ's tip. It has a julie connector, 1 ' long. The only julie extension cord I found on ebay was 24 pounds in the UK with 25 pounds shipping. I don't shop aliexp, I'd have to buy an anonymous one use credit card for that. On ebay I found a used bafang controller, no display, no labels on the wires coming out, $60, I turned it down. Bafang's usually have display, it might be unuseable as is.
I have a 48 v ebikeling geared hub motor with worn out gears. Can I take the harness off the ebikeling motor, solder it to the bafang motor, and expect it to work with a 48 v battery at <500 W? I don't have a 36 v battery either. The ebikeling harness has the common 6 pin white block hall effect connector, plus 3 14 ga phase wires with .157" bullet connectors.
I thought I could answer the question by now, I ordered a new generic 48 v 350w controller 7/14 from ebay in Pennsylvania, but the Post Office took 21 days to deliver my 2 day priority box from newark, so it might be a while.
My 48 v 1000 w Mac12t motor burnt a pin off the ASI controller in the rain 7/09. Battery fuse is fine. New ASi controller off ebay is $55, and requires programming through RS485 to set the voltage it runs off of. I am not confident I can program that controller with any computer or interface I have now. I can't even get weather.gov to respond to my computer anymore. I'm down on the MAC, it had a bad clutch that shudders on engagement from day one, and I don't think I could get a new one. Bought from lunabike, who has exited the hub motor business entirely, only sells 52 & 72 v batteries, and is very busy digging ruts in the Mojave Desert with his hi powered models. The Mac12t motor has a 5 pin inline hall effect? connector instead of the usual 2X3 white hall effect connector of everything else.
Too many things that don't match up. I haven't ridden electrically since 7/9 and lost the ability to pedal the yubabike when I ran over a stick 7/14 and tore up the derailleurs rear & front. I just pedaled yubabike for first 4 blocks today, and still a lot of shifter adjusting to do. Taking the Mac12t off this evening, need to pedal the 30 miles out to the summer camp yesterday and taking 13 pounds off (motor + battery) might help me cut the time down from 4.4 hours it took 7/9.
Thanks for reading.
 
Last edited:

RunForTheHills

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
It is hard to parse your questions, but it seems that you have two motors that could work. You need a controller for the MAC 12T or you have a Bafang motor that you also need a controller for. Grin sells controllers that are compatible with both motors and you would be able to get support from them. You might even be able ask them to pre-configure the controller for you. They are more expensive than the ASI controller on ebay though. Or maybe @PedalUma or @tomjasz could sell you a pre-configured controller.

The hall sensors use 5V. It shouldn't be a problem running the motor at 48V instead of 36V. It will just have a higher top speed at 48V.

https://ebikes.ca/documents/HallSensorTestingFinal.pdf

Is this the cable? Of course you can always solder a different connector on it. You may have to play with the order of the phase wires to get them right.

https://www.amazon.com/Greenergia-Waterproof-Extension-BAFANG-Conversion/dp/B0887VW8Y1?th=1

51gzKRJqkdL._AC_SL1000_.jpg
 

PedalUma

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
@RunForTheHills, Thank you for including me. This one is beyond my scope. You over estimate my abilities. I am trying my best to steer clear of hub-drives and I only do things locally in person, I do not ship anything,. @tomjasz may have the answers.
As for the Yuba shifting check the derailleur hanger for straightness. Look for videos of DHAG and ways to make the adjustments with out the derailleur hanger adjustment gauge, if you do not have one. That will get at least one bike back on the road.
I would scan for images of controllers to find one with identical connectors, or nearly identical because I wouldn't concern myself with something like a light kit attachment, just the core functions.
 

Attachments

  • ShowUsaTool07.JPG
    ShowUsaTool07.JPG
    176.5 KB · Views: 83

indianajo

Well-Known Member
Super. Thanks about 5 v level of hall effect sensors (I hoped so).
Will open the bad gear ebikeling motor & the used bafang motor, transfer harness from ebikeling motor to bafang motor. Generic 350 W 36/48 v controller I bought 7/14 on ebay should be here within 14 days. I don't care about top speed, I just need some help into high headwinds if they occur and over the 50th to 80th hills @ 10 mph on my commute. 350 W controller shouldn't put out enough amps to burn a 36 v motor even if battery is 48 v. I have an ebikeling 48 v 1300 w controller with display out at my summer camp, 30 miles away. Worked 3 years ago, the battery out there was bad. That display is bad but the pas level up down button still worked. It has standard throttle connector, standard 2X3 white PAS connector.
Edit: Ha! that 5 pin connector that grin shows in the "testing the hall effect sensors" is the one that the mac12t motor has. None of the first 60 controllers on ebay have that connector! At least that document shows where ground is. the colors on the luna harness are all wrong.
 
Last edited:

harryS

Well-Known Member
I've got two of those motors from Battery Clearing House. Bafang motors with internal speed sensor (it's 6 pulses per turn, by the way). I finally got one mounted on a steel cruiser bike last week. Running 36V, it's about a 20 mph bike, but I am still puzzling on where to locate the battery.

Anyway, it uses the 9 pin waterproof connector. Something like this will plug into the controllers that use bullets for the phases and molex for the Halls. Or you can buy an extension cable and splice. I suggest using butt connectors to splice the phase wires. I take the metal cores out of crimp connectors and solder them. With the plastic removed, they're easy to shrink wrap. Or you can cut up your no good hub motor and splice its cable. The Bafang will have an extra wire, a white one for the speed sensor. This is not present on the ebikeling cable.


The Hall sensors in these hubmotors are powered by 5 volts from the controllers. Only the coils see the battery voltage, so you can run any voltage you want, subject to current/heat limits.
 

RunForTheHills

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
Higher voltage will use less current for the same power. Watts = Amps X Voltage. So you won't melt anything in the motor with the higher voltage.
 

RunForTheHills

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
Edit: Ha! that 5 pin connector that grin shows in the "testing the hall effect sensors" is the one that the mac12t motor has. None of the first 60 controllers on ebay have that connector! At least that document shows where ground is. the colors on the luna harness are all wrong.
That connector is a JST connector. You can get a kit with a crimping tool on Amazon with a selection of connectors. I would just replace the JST with a waterproof HIGO or Julet connector. If you buy an extension cable, you can cut it in half and have both the female and male ends to solder to your existing wires.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08P2LRZ37/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

61gCofPwicS._AC_SL1500_.jpg
 

indianajo

Well-Known Member
Anyway, it uses the 9 pin waterproof connector. Something like this will plug into the controllers that use bullets for the phases and molex for the Halls.
Thanks, ordered two cables. I hope they come with the white blocks, they are not real Molex. I have the molex factory catalog. They are ****ese. I'm sure I could buy a minimum of 10000 of them on aliexpress, if I only gave them my birthdate. (not).
One reason I wasn't finding the connector, I was searching juliet and you typed julet. There was a juliet match, in the UK.
 

PedalUma

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
Off topic, but it has to do with major screw ups. While trimming a Topeak Versa Mount on a cargo bike I could have died, just now. By the way I screw up at a 90% higher rate than most people who work on bikes; it is how I learn on the curve. I sliced a giant vein in my ankle and the blood spewed out at huge quantities with each heart beat. It helps put wiring and controllers into perspective. Effing-up controller wiring is not a death sentence. It is a feminine puppy to train.
 

Attachments

  • BloodFFail.JPG
    BloodFFail.JPG
    260.9 KB · Views: 86
  • DSCF4909.JPG
    DSCF4909.JPG
    225.3 KB · Views: 81

tomjasz

Well-Known Member
Lunabike?
I'm down on the MAC, it had a bad clutch that shudders on engagement from day one, and I don't think I could get a new one. Bought from lunabike, who has exited the hub motor business entirely, o
when did you buy the MAC from Luna? One bad clutch does not mean it’s a troublesome motor. Luna sold another gear drive hub. Making me curious as to your purchase date.
 

indianajo

Well-Known Member
Lunabike?
when did you buy the MAC from Luna? One bad clutch does not mean it’s a troublesome motor. Luna sold another gear drive hub. Making me curious as to your purchase date.
I bought the Mac12t front from Luna 6/24/19. Received it 9/12/19. I'll look at 500 controllers on ebay to find a 5 pin flat hall effect connector to fit it only if I can find a new one way clutch for the mac. Great motor but I have to power off sometimes 4 times to get it to stop shaking the front fork. I'm not going to buy another ASI controller to match the MAC harness; those pins are too small, too close together, and burn off in the rain. The female socket to the pin that burned off might be damaged anyway.
There was a used mac motor on ebay in florida with the cable cut off, non functional, $100 + $50 freight. Not worth that to me.
 
Last edited:

Ravi Kempaiah

Well-Known Member
Region
Canada
City
Halifax
Harry is right! Running at 48V should be no problem. Just make sure the thermal limits are

Getting ASI controllers to work with MAC is not trivial. We will be able to help you with ASI and a powerful geared hub motor in the near future.
 

indianajo

Well-Known Member
PM me mailing address & price. I mail Western Union money orders or can do ebay debit card. Paypal says my computer is insecure. Controller Needs to have 3x2 hall effect connector, 3 pin throttle connector, 2 pin brake connector, 3 pin PAS pickup connector, a dream feature would be input for a torque sensor. I can splice the wires.
12 fet is a negative, I'm going to have to put 2 ohm 25 W resistors in the phase lines to keep the currents down to the 36 v motor. Or clamp the throttle to 3.3 v max with a zener so I don't overenergize it with a 50 amp rated 48 v battery.
I was really hoping you knew somebody that would sell me a burnt up Mac motor with good clutch for <$150. The clown in Florida who cut the harness off his mac hulk wants $50 freight! Must be getting kickback from his local UPS store. I get 25 lb from Mcmaster via UPS for $18 from Cleveland.
Off the internet until Monday. Would be out on road now but new up-pull front derailleur slipped the clamp up the seat column when I tried to shift. Had to design a strut between shifter & clamp. *^%)_(*+( Who ever heard of an up pull front shifter? I have 5 worn out down pull ones.
 

indianajo

Well-Known Member
Don't waste your time. I don't have any windows computers to program the controller. Not going to buy any either, too many windows hack stories on the business page. Thanks anyway. $40 for a controller is not a big deal, if it doesn't turn out to be garbage like the ASI.
 

tomjasz

Well-Known Member
I bought the Mac12t front from Luna 6/24/19. Received it 9/12/19. I'll look at 500 controllers on ebay to find a 5 pin flat hall effect connector to fit it only if I can find a new one way clutch for the mac. Great motor but I have to power off sometimes 4 times to get it to stop shaking the front fork. I'm not going to buy another ASI controller to match the MAC harness; those pins are too small, too close together, and burn off in the rain. The female socket to the pin that burned off might be damaged anyway.
There was a used mac motor on ebay in florida with the cable cut off, non functional, $100 + $50 freight. Not worth that to me.
Shelly at MAC in China gave me the name of a USA seller that didn’t respond to email. Will try calling Monday.
a group buy of 8, the MOQ, could work. I did a couple on endless_sphere worked out well.
 

indianajo

Well-Known Member
I'm trying to get my Mac12t apart to rewire it & inspect the clutch. Maybe I can re-glue the clutch. Cover won't come off, stops @ 1/8" out. It is the one with the off center wire harness, wire not in the shaft. 6 tapped holes in the cover, I made a tool out of a washer with 6 holes drilled in it, attached with six 5 mm screws, and bought a posi-lock #PT202 puller. Mcmaster PN 6169K2. Pulled against chamfer in shaft end. Puller stalled out, ground paint of puller head off trying to turn it with vise-grips. Can't back puller off, head screwed off. Going to have to buy supply of 5/16"x24 nuts to double nut the puller shaft.
One more try: there are 6 dents on a ring on the back side. Going to take a center punch to it and see if I can spin it off.
Only videos on u-tube shows Mac winding coils on a machine. Other is a newbie explaining how he turned his wire harness off & ruined his fork by using a cast torque arm held with hose clamp. Duh! My torque arm is bed frame rail, held in place with a strip of box fan shell as a clamp & 10-32 screws.
You selling macs? I could probably use another but the 5 pin hall effect connector on mine doesn't match any controller I can buy in USA on ebay. I did find a supply of rectangular white connector bodies M & F for sale on ebay, received 8/10.
 
Last edited:

RunForTheHills

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
I'm trying to get my Mac12t apart to rewire it & inspect the clutch. Maybe I can re-glue the clutch. Cover won't come off, stops @ 1/8" out. It is the one with the off center wire harness, wire not in the shaft. 6 tapped holes in the cover, I made a tool out of a washer with 6 holes drilled in it, attached with six 5 mm screws, and bought a posi-lock #PT202 puller. Mcmaster PN 6169K2. Pulled against chamfer in shaft end. Puller stalled out, ground paint of puller head off trying to turn it with vise-grips. Can't back puller off, head screwed off. Going to have to buy supply of 5/16"x24 nuts to double nut the puller shaft.
One more try: there are 6 dents on a ring on the back side. Going to take a center punch to it and see if I can spin it off.
Only videos on u-tube shows Mac winding coils on a machine. Other is a newbie explaining how he turned his wire harness off & ruined his fork by using a cast torque arm held with hose clamp. Duh! My torque arm is bed frame rail, held in place with a strip of box fan shell as a clamp & 10-32 screws.
You selling macs? I could probably use another but the 5 pin hall effect connector on mine doesn't match any controller I can buy in USA on ebay.
Try these instructions by Spinningmagnets. It is not a video, but he has pictures.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=51310
 

indianajo

Well-Known Member
Try these instructions by Spinningmagnets. It is not a video, but he has pictures.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=51310
Thanks. That motor has a cover on the non-wire side with screws. Mine has no screws. The non-wire side is a pot. The shaft is not pushing out of that pot. The shaft is not pulling out of the wire side cover.
BTW, tried to connect the adapter cable https://www.ebay.com/itm/402762482030?_trkparms=aid=1110006&algo=HOMESPLICE.SIM&ao=1&asc=233120&meid=585454d38f684e95968fbafb59bf59ce&pid=101195&rk=6&rkt=12&sd=124047064550&itm=402762482030&pmt=1&noa=0&pg=2047675&algv=SimplAMLv9PairwiseWithPLXWeb&_trksid=p2047675.c101195.m1851&amdata=cksum:402762482030585454d38f684e95968fbafb59bf59ce|enc:AQAGAAACEFbCIaQejrjUrEY%2FaRvxFoolASslvdcT9rOL9U4QDNM2YyyuZRgn8iWeW1GbFBJ7NjG%2FTG4mFkRwsoIuXJR6zLhnFsxYcfyw2UJ8Y22ryvbGL2XcdU8DRPvRnrdee42c7xDQV5IEbuJD9Bi5wFB0Ju5NmClioSaXavGIF8QNVr0XnKpATh3CzLYWpTCRBfjCwIZ%2B2rWf1sDVk5z0i6y8trBmmC7ma7g%2FzIroDP3v0m%2F6NHml8gvn3kvNGlO1K8u%2BQvkrkDL4jf5wdOQljMmXX3rlLmh%2BastS4YEA4EnqHTQBprAxsDnjElAjUufddke8pO8zV6xqNfDRvcAWtJmES7Jxrodi%2F8826B%2FgETEjkrM41BRkTF4xRJ6HYoO06SW51X8BerF5BWYXrGkycgC1XFeD3cHiN0osYGdNfYl0x5sExTBkNyZMr4J7rEsSXl0CTDxC9JUvzVut5ED3pIYnJyd%2F8VojweOeBbgso3IWp1YrK8DqP5deJpRI9NWt3vAQWDhaljZqp7TGAzI4SDjyzFZVjEi2VD929Q02MeX3Y8wAnxk1QmKA3K9dfuVYL9t4%2FHeO05zRRVRdqwP5rdiwWx3R6LHmSGybTXMzJ85YRq%2BDUoHLBu5ymlXoP8pLpe8zgVxqjsbRSzE7G3UdiLt7g9vN8W8Q5oV4x5p9YK9rzzGn9OfKWm8s%2BHpsef22qOgd7w%3D%3D|ampid:pL_CLK|clp:2047675&epid=25042889922 to the bafang 500 w motor. The adapter cable is male on the julet connector end. The bafang motor is male on the end. The supreme court can't make those two males mate. Taking the cover off the bafang motor now. I has 5 pin tamper proof star head screws. Attempting unscrew with the universal adapter, a carbide tree grinder bit turning left. At minimum I can grind the pin out of the recess. Have a bag of 4 mm allen head screws.
 
Last edited: