48/57 volt Battery failing or not ? need HELP

kim

New Member
Thanks for the suggestion and everything else up the line here the other bike is a 36v downtube. I'm waiting for a reply from Nethers Battery who I found on ebay with an add to rebuild Prodeco 36v with Samsung 35E for $425 w/return shipping.That's a wow. I looked at his feedback and he's done some 48v for the same price so I hope he'll do mine.. If not my backup is Ebike Marketplace who is more $$$ but my exact battery is on their webpage. I'm waiting on the cell brand from them but at least the Marketplace do these for sure and that's a relief for now because this bike is a bear to pedal without a battery.
 

kim

New Member
You got two ebikes? Are the batteries the same type? Can you swap them?

This battery pack from ebay is almost exactly the same size as the one in my plastic case.
Really 1/4" and 1/8" smaller in two dimensions..amazing
It's a 20Ah where mine is a 12Ah and I think mine is a 16S where this is 14S..not sure if that matters.
It comes with the charger.. Pros/Cons ? will this work ? I'm 71 retired trying to save a few bucks DIY
My motor is 750 watt 1200 peak 1000 watt battery OK?
I'm not sure what to do here too. The other 700watt battery of theirs has 20 amp output where the 1000 watt is 40 amp.
my controller is 25amp. Is that 40amp safe or will it blow me up..hmmmm?
will I get less performance with 20amp? sounds like a stupid question but I'm that stupid with this stuff. thanks if you can help.


 
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harryS

Well-Known Member
Your original Prodeckotech pack is LiFePO4 which is a nominal 3.2V per cell where as regular LIpO in a can or pouch is a nominal 3.7V. Hence the S number is quite important when looking at the final voltage. You cannot mix chargers between batteries of different voltage.

So you have two ebikes, one is 36V and the one in trouble is an odd ball LIFEPO4 16S pack. too bad they are not the same nominal voltage as the easiest test is just to swap a good battery into the Outlaw and see if runs below 52V,

This is the bike?. EBR sure didn't like it. Tail heavy. No brake cutoffs. Court almost crashed. I also see that it's a big DD motor, so throttle is going to pull a lot of current.

Here's the main issue. The controller is set up for as 52V battery, so you have to get another 52V battery or a 52V rebuild. The low voltage cutoff inside the controller should be around 45V for a 52V pack, as opposed to the 42V cutoff for a 48V pack.

Meanwhile, the battery you found on ebay is a fake. You're not getting 20AH for a hundred bucks. I can see the lie in their specs. They say it's a 52 cell battery, which would mean a 13x4 cell array. The AH rating comes from adding up the individual AH number of the cells in a parallel group. In this case, 4 cells. Divide 20AH by 4 and you need 5AH cells. Well, they don't make cells that powerful yet. The most powerful are like 3.6AH. It's more likely they are using 2AH cells, so this is a 8AH pack, if you're lucky.

If you were to buy it and charge it to its full charge of 54. 6V, I suspect it will sag to 48V the first time you use the throttle, If the Prodeckotech still runs, then you
 

kim

New Member
Your original Prodeckotech pack is LiFePO4 which is a nominal 3.2V per cell where as regular LIpO in a can or pouch is a nominal 3.7V. Hence the S number is quite important when looking at the final voltage. You cannot mix chargers between batteries of different voltage.

So you have two ebikes, one is 36V and the one in trouble is an odd ball LIFEPO4 16S pack. too bad they are not the same nominal voltage as the easiest test is just to swap a good battery into the Outlaw and see if runs below 52V,

This is the bike?. EBR sure didn't like it. Tail heavy. No brake cutoffs. Court almost crashed. I also see that it's a big DD motor, so throttle is going to pull a lot of current.

Here's the main issue. The controller is set up for as 52V battery, so you have to get another 52V battery or a 52V rebuild. The low voltage cutoff inside the controller should be around 45V for a 52V pack, as opposed to the 42V cutoff for a 48V pack.

Meanwhile, the battery you found on ebay is a fake. You're not getting 20AH for a hundred bucks. I can see the lie in their specs. They say it's a 52 cell battery, which would mean a 13x4 cell array. The AH rating comes from adding up the individual AH number of the cells in a parallel group. In this case, 4 cells. Divide 20AH by 4 and you need 5AH cells. Well, they don't make cells that powerful yet. The most powerful are like 3.6AH. It's more likely they are using 2AH cells, so this is a 8AH pack, if you're lucky.

If you were to buy it and charge it to its full charge of 54. 6V, I suspect it will sag to 48V the first time you use the throttle, If the Prodeckotech still runs, then you
 

kim

New Member
Thanks for all that again.This link is the only company that so far has agreed to rebuild this. I already knew I was going to need a new charger with the LiFE battery they build and they guaranty their LiFE voltage is going to work with my existing controller.


 
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kim

New Member
I spoke to John Nethers on the phone last night .All he wanted was a pic of the label on my charger.Seeing that said he can rebuild my battery with Samsung 35E S14 20A and my existing charger will work with it...Because the LiFE have a higher voltage he needs fewer of them so the battery will be a little lighter.
 
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kim

New Member
I have to reply to the off subject "EBR sure didn't like it." I'm now 71, I road raced in the 60s-70s when I worked as a mechanic in a bike shop and later raced mountain bikes too. I found that article in a search before I drove 2.5hrs to buy this $2800 bike from a fat guy in Miami only 6mos old for $1000..yes I read the cons but when I rode it I had no problem at all. "Tail heavy?" I have to say I notice it back there but anyone who looks at that brick and the rack it's on and thinks for a second this is an off road bike is dumber that a box of rocks and that would have been right up front in the article if I wrote it. I would have trashed that rack in 5min when I was 30, So it's been riding road for 5yrs and still check it once in a while that it's not falling apart..I'm sorry "Court almost crashed"I forgot that part... Then "No brake cutoffs" I admit have no idea what they're even about, but my guess is it's for someone who panics and hits the throttle and breaks at the same time? I'm off the research that...
______________________________________________________-
EDIT: Answer. "The electric brake lever sensor will protect against the situation where you're emergency braking but forgot to release the throttle.".. Those people should have that in their cars too.
 
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harryS

Well-Known Member
No argument here. When you're only 140 pounds on a 25 pound bike, you might feel eight pounds on the rack.
 
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kim

New Member
I'm 150# soaking wet, and I think my battery is double that 8# and the total wt is 62lbs and a bear to pedal dead.. I'm having thoughts of putting one of those bottom bracket crankset motors in my GT LTS-2 With a battery in the triangle where it belongs. Moving on I've stopped by USPO,UPS,and Fedex about shipping and it's like I walked in with an atomic bomb.. They're all have no idea what to do, even the Postmaster.
 
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harryS

Well-Known Member
Pretty $$$ to ship a battery legally, but more expensive not to follow the rules. I hear the there five figure fines.

Maybe just ship them the case with cells removed. IS here anything special about that battery or is it just +/- 52V down two wires to a controller somewhere on that bike.

How about a triangle battery, Ask UPP to make it with Samsung/Pansonic GA cells instead of generic Chinese. Probably aborund $500,


 
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kim

New Member
Pretty $$$ to ship a battery legally, but more expensive not to follow the rules. I hear the there five figure fines.

Maybe just ship them the case with cells removed. IS here anything special about that battery or is it just +/- 52V down two wires to a controller somewhere on that bike.

How about a triangle battery, Ask UPP to make it with Samsung/Pansonic GA cells instead of generic Chinese. Probably aborund $500,


I considered that for sure, about 3 weeks ago I made a cardboard cutout of the dimensions and resting on the down tube with the bottle screws removed and weld nuts filed off (not yet)it will fit with 1/4" to spare under the top tube and the reviews are good too..The weight has now shifted back to this decision. Thanks
 
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kmccune

Well-Known Member
Lordy Man, you are overthinking this deal, get some kind of Battery off of EBAY or Amazon( if you have a "rack battery its going to be easy to upgrade( seriously I have used these batteries to good effect forget about shipping a Lithium battery Remember "Jet Blue" If I remember correctly not so far away from you and the the "Dreamliner" fiasco) or better yet buy a new bike, you can buy a beast of a "Beachcruiser from "Maxfoot" for around$1200 ,I had one, plenty of power and Range( here in the Ridges) or wait for it -A Lectric XP for $900, fat tires and it will fit you if you are a smaller Guy. You have to remember most aftermarket batteries come with the correct charger.
 

harryS

Well-Known Member
There was another Prodecko battery thread where someone thought the battery had a special data cable (like BionX or Bosch) that forced you to use a factory battery, but I doubted the Prodecko guys had the means to design that, Anyway, you're in the best position to know.
 
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kim

New Member
There was another Prodecko battery thread where someone thought the battery had a special data cable (like BionX or Bosch) that forced you to use a factory battery, but I doubted the Prodecko guys had the means to design that, Anyway, you're in the best position to know.
That's what FTH Power said..Quote from my email
"Your battery has a data line that communicates with your bike’s control board. Unfortunately the information on the data line is not available from the original manufacturer. And we will not be able to obtain a part needed for repairs.
At this time we are not able to repair or replace these model type of batteries."
Jennifer Alarid FTH Power INC."
__________________________________________________________________

There are 2 blade connectors +&- only coming out of the failing battery so I have no idea what they're talking about.
 
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kim

New Member
After all that (Thanks Harry) it's off to Nethers Battery for the Samsung 35E treatment.. I'll be back in 4-5 weeks with a report.
Cheers...
 

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kim

New Member
My battery came back yesterday with 54.0 volts..Only 12 days to ship both ways and rebuild. I put it on the original charger and it was up to 58.7 volts last night when the green light came on.Report on power and duration to come.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________

EDIT: Test after rebuild from LIFEPO4 to LIFE.. As John said his rebuild would work with my existing charger(check) and be lighter and it is but the LIFEPO4 when new would go 25-27 miles where the rebuild just went 20 so the lighter battery dies sooner but after 10-15 mi @ 72yrs old I'm ready to get off it anyway so I'm happy with the $400 rebuild.
 
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