50nm mid drive vs 50nm hub drive

FlatSix911

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Silicon Valley
As the original poster of this thread, I would like you to know I have sold my Aventon Pace 500 and ordered a Specialized Como 4. Thanks for the information you provided.

Looking forward to the arrival of the Como 4 and will let everyone here know my thoughts on the new bike.

Congrats on your new Como... you will enjoy the mid-drive power delivery and balance.
 
D

Deleted member 4210

Guest
I am currently riding an Aventon Pace 500 which I am generally pleased with. A couple annoying features though have me now looking at a mid drive bike.

The Aventon is a 500 watt, 48 volt, 50 nm, 8 speed rear hub motor ebike that is capable of ascending every hill I've tried even with my 250 pound weight. Albeit sometimes slowly.

I dislike the abrupt on-off feel of the motor due to the cadence sensor and the inability to pedal constantly in PAS 1 without going 11-12 mph.

I also dislike that the assist doesn't start helping from a stop until a pedal revolution or so.

I do like the relaxed, upright riding style as I'm 63 with some health issues.


Looking at Trek mid-drive ebikes with the 2020 Bosch Active Line Plus motor and 50 nm torque (Verve+ 3).

Or a 2020 Specialized mid-drive ebike with Brose 1.2e motor and 50 nm torque (Como 3).

Would either of these two mid drives perform as well or better on hills as the Aventon?

Do I need to go to the Electra Path Go and it's Bosch Performance line motor with 65 nm torque?

Or the Specialized Como 4 with its Brose 1.3 motor and 75 nm torque?
Nope. Bosch is very weak, and it's interesting how many come in looking for Aventon Pace 350 and 500's after they've tried the more expensive Treks with Bosch on them. And they love the throttle, and no complaints about how it activated. Mostly they are just thrilled to have a throttle. And most don't mind the cadence sensing response, and those who do, aren't willing to drop another $ 1000 to get the smoother response from a much weaker motor. As always there are trade offs, and pros and cons on everything. They frequently cite the added power from The Aventon motors as most important to them. Although I have witnessed a few 70 and 80 something's prefer the Bosch and perfectly happy with slower speeds and staying on mostly flat terrain. We are also pretty flat here in Illinois.
 
D

Deleted member 4210

Guest
As the original poster of this thread, I would like you to know I have sold my Aventon Pace 500 and ordered a Specialized Como 4. Thanks for the information you provided.

Looking forward to the arrival of the Como 4 and will let everyone here know my thoughts on the new bike.
Wow that's a lot more dough than the Aventon, eh ? . Hope you really enjoy it ! Definitely an upgrade over an Aventon. Over time I anticipate many first time ebike buyers/ riders will refine their tastes and graduate to more expensive ebikes like the Como's or Vados or Yamahas etc. They will likely find too, they didn't use or need the throttle all that much, and maybe even prefer the experience of torque sensing, and be willing like you to shell out more dough for it.
 

fooferdoggie

Well-Known Member
Nope. Bosch is very weak, and it's interesting how many come in looking for Aventon Pace 350 and 500's after they've tried the more expensive Treks with Bosch on them. And they love the throttle, and no complaints about how it activated. Mostly they are just thrilled to have a throttle. And most don't mind the cadence sensing response, and those who do, aren't willing to drop another $ 1000 to get the smoother response from a much weaker motor. As always there are trade offs, and pros and cons on everything. They frequently cite the added power from The Aventon motors as most important to them. Although I have witnessed a few 70 and 80 something's prefer the Bosch and perfectly happy with slower speeds and staying on mostly flat terrain. We are also pretty flat here in Illinois.
the bosch has far more torque then then either aventon. it just sounds like people want a throttle and no really plan on riding the e bike like a bike. the quality evel between the two is night and day.
 
the bosch has far more torque then then either aventon. it just sounds like people want a throttle and no really plan on riding the e bike like a bike. the quality evel between the two is night and day.
I think those bikes that use Bosch will be expected to be more refined and upscale since people pay so much for the motors! You can get away with cheaper components on a 28 mph ebike with a hub motor that has a throttle because the emphasis is the throttle and not the mechanics of user pedaling experience. Weight, rider's input, and maneuverability takes a back seat to ease of use and speed limit! As an example, the emphasis may be on providing a cushioned ride versus getting the best tires that will dictated how well a bike handles on curves, or its traction on gravel and wet surfaces!
 

fooferdoggie

Well-Known Member
I think those bikes that use Bosch will be expected to be more refined and upscale since people pay so much for the motors! You can get away with cheaper components on a 28 mph ebike with a hub motor that has a throttle because the emphasis is the throttle and not the mechanics of user pedaling experience. Weight, rider's input, and maneuverability takes a back seat to ease of use and speed limit! As an example, the emphasis may be on providing a cushioned ride versus getting the best tires that will dictated how well a bike handles on curves, or its traction on gravel and wet surfaces!
exactly. the lowewr end bikes are geared towards causal riders. who knows if they will even keep riding them. I bet within a year there will be a ton of used bikes for sale.
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
Priorities guys. Let's try to keep in mind there are a lot of them, and stop this B.S. of mine is bigger/better or I'm smarter. It's really unbecoming.
 

EMGX

Well-Known Member
Where was this location? I want to do it!
The top picture was taken from Rowena Crest viewpoint in Oregon, between Mosier and The Dalles in the Columbia River Gorge. Beautiful area to ride, some spots are car free but because of I-84 in some areas you just need to ignore the traffic noise.
Second picture was on a ride up Mt. Lemon in Arizona.
Third picture was in Zion NP on the main road.
All were rides I did in 2020

Here is a picture from a 3 day 175 mile "Old West Scenic Bikeway" route I rode last summer in eastern Oregon.
DSCF0704.JPG
 

FlatSix911

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Silicon Valley
The top picture was taken from Rowena Crest viewpoint in Oregon, between Mosier and The Dalles in the Columbia River Gorge.
Beautiful area to ride, some spots are car free but because of I-84 in some areas you just need to ignore the traffic noise.
Second picture was on a ride up Mt. Lemon in Arizona.
Third picture was in Zion NP on the main road.
All were rides I did in 2020

Here is a picture from a 3 day 175 mile "Old West Scenic Bikeway" route I rode last summer in eastern Oregon.View attachment 76105
Nice areas to ride in the mountains!
Looks like you have a BH Gravel-X with the Yamaha PW mid-drive... a perfect bike for your region.
 

ElevenAD

Well-Known Member
sorry for my ignorance, but what's ICE motorcycle?😑

Anyways, that's my point too, torque doesn't mean anything. (or torque doesn't mean everything)
If that's the case, you can't say 50nm ebike is weaker than 150nm ebike for hill climbing and hauling things.

So, maybe as you suggested, maybe horsepower is what counts.

Simply put, 400 lb motorcycle with mere 50nm of torque is a lot faster and stronger than 60 lb ebikes with 160nm of torque.
i saw one of the Ariel Rider owners try to put 80nm of torque on a nylon Hub motor gear and the gear just shredded like butter, he even said no way these E-Bike motors are pushing the advertised torque when the components cant even handle the stress.
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
i saw one of the Ariel Rider owners try to put 80nm of torque on a nylon Hub motor gear and the gear just shredded like butter, he even said no way these E-Bike motors are pushing the advertised torque when the components cant even handle the stress.
First thought here would be that torque would be spread evenly across 3 gears.....
 

ElevenAD

Well-Known Member
First thought here would be that torque would be spread evenly across 3 gears.....
i had a similar thought but the guy doing the test is an engineer and im not so......
maybe he is full of BS who knows?
 
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i had a similar thought but the guy doing the test is an engineer and im not so......
maybe he is full of BS who knows?
I think the question would be is how did he apply the test to make that claim. What process did he do? What was his criteria? How did he implement the test? Can others replicate his test and get the same result? I have seen many of so called claims but few have shared how they measured it! Coming in late to the game on this discussion
 

ElevenAD

Well-Known Member
I think the question would be is how did he apply the test to make that claim. What process did he do? What was his criteria? How did he implement the test? Can others replicate his test and get the same result? I have seen many of so called claims but few have shared how they measured it! Coming in late to the game on this discussion
like i said im no engineer im a truck driver lol so who knows if he is correct or not but around 1:20 he mentions companies hyping up torque ratings, i also dont know this tool he is using and how accurate it is
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
IMHO it's "experts" like this one that caused Bafang to retool the (quiet) plastic gear originally used in the Ultra's, to steel (way nosier). This despite the fact that there had been no failures of the plastic gear, and the BBSHD, with plastic gear and similar power, had not proven to be an issue.