745Whr replacement batteries + 7A charger from E-bike Vision

Ravi Kempaiah

Well-Known Member
I was happy to see that a company is offering higher Ah battery replacements for Yamaha and Bosch powered E-bikes.
For Yamaha - PW, PW-Se, PW-TE and PW-X systems are compatible.

It is a straight swap and you get 745whr battery instead of 500whr. It goes where the frame mounted batteries go but it sticks out a little bit.
Also, they will be offering a 7A fast charger , which is great.


Company link: https://www.e-bike-vision.de/produkte/power-pack-ersatzakkus/powerpack-kompatibel-zur-yamaha-pw-serie/

Since this is UN certified and made by a legitimate company, it is going to cost a bit more but neat to see 2 yr warranty on these replacement parts.

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This is great news, thank you for posting this info, Ravi!

In the past year, I purchased two 500wh batteries to accompany my original 400wh Yamaha battery on my Haibike Full FatSix. Carried inside the rear Ortlieb E-Mate panniers made especially to carry the external batteries from Yamaha, Bosch or Shimano; it has allowed me to realistically think of going to 100 miles or beyond on this fat tired, dual suspension mtb; using the High Power setting.

This is a real game changer for owners of older ebikes that still have thousands of miles of life left in them; but wish to upgrade their battery to 2020 standards. And better yet, it's an external mount battery, allowing the owner to remove the battery at the end of the day and keep it in the warm home environment instead of out in the winters cold garage, where some days temps may be near 0 degrees F. I'm not a fan of the internal downtube battery at all; and in fact, Bosch is onto their second design with their larger capacity internal battery; leaving the 500wh internal battery as an orphan of sorts as I believe the larger battery will not fit the smaller battery space within the frame.

There appeared to be some Chinese market large capacity batteries for sale at one time on Alibaba that allegedly fit the Yamaha powered bikes; but I don't recall anybody having a successful experience with them as reported on the European pedelec forums.

Always looked at the space open on my small sized mtb frame and thought there was alot of room for a higher capacity battery in that space. Now, it's all come to fruition with this new battery.

I hope our retailers like Lenny, Propel, Motostrano and others get in on this battery when it becomes available.
 

bikero

New Member
I sent them an e-mail with the following questions, will also reply here when (if) they do:

1) Is the increased capacity (ie. 745Wh) only due to the increased battery size or due to a different battery technology than the one used in OEM batteries?
2) Is this battery going to age the same way an OEM battery does? Ie. after let's say 300 identical charging cycles, will the 745Wh battery decrease its maximum capacity with the same percentage as the 500Wh OEM battery?
3) How is the new battery size handled by the motor ECU? Will the correct battery percentage be displayed on the display or will this value be out of sync?
4) Does the battery itself have a display where it shows how much more current does it have? What is the display unit? On a Yamaha OEM battery the display unit is 25% (ie. there are 4 bars)
5) Did you do some real world tests with these new 745 Wh batteries? Do they offer at least 40% more range?

I'm interested of course, 745Wh would be an ebiker's dream - typically, 500Wh is more than enough BUT you do have to drive on ECO most of the time in order to be sure you finish a 70-80 Km ride with 1800m ground difference without depleting the battery.

500g more for 50% more capacity virtually means 45-50% more range in theory - you don't get to see that much range difference when you add minimal weight. I, for instance, don't see any range difference when I add 2Kg on my haibike fullnine 8.0
 
Bikero: Looking forward to whatever further info you get back from them. I sent them an email asking questions mainly focused on any plans they may have for the US market. Their reply, in German, addressed none of my questions.
 

bikero

New Member
1000$ for a 745wh battery seems way overpriced.

Well, a brand new 500Wh Yamaha battery is almost 800 euros. Keeping the proportion per Wh, a 745Wh would be almost 1200 euros.
At least for Yamaha, it makes some financial sense. For Bosch or other vendors.. I don't know, it might not.

The main problem here is actually not the price but the ability to extend the range of your trips without carrying an additional battery.
I mean, even if it would be cheaper to buy a second OEM battery, you still have to carry it in your backpack or in some kind of rack - neither solution is perfect.
OEM's don't sell you a similar solution - Yamaha stopped at 600Wh and Bosch only launched the 625Wh battery. Who knows when in the future they will launch a 745Wh battery?

And let's be honest, are the new 600/625Wh batteries compatible with older systems like the ones E-bike vision sell?
 

Ebiker01

Well-Known Member
The best option would be a fast charger.I just had mine build, it’s a Luna cycles charger, it’s a five amps charger.

15%-90% in 45min. !!
 

Ravi Kempaiah

Well-Known Member
15%-90% in 45min. !!
Are you sure this is correct?
Your bike Nitro has 48V, 12.6 Ah battery.
At 15%... it has 1.89 Ah
At 90%... it has 11.34 Ah

11.34 - 1.89 = 9.45 Ah

using your Luna charger at 5A, it takes ~ 1 hour 51 minutes to go from 15% to 90%.

Please share correct and factual kind of information!
 
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What did they write?
What did they write in reply to me?

"Zu ihrer information nochmals die gesendente Nachricht an die Ebike Vision GmbH"

I know the Germans like to think they are a technical, sparing of words people, but I don't believe I got the answer I was looking for.

To Ebike01: Well, you have to go with what is out there and up to now, the only game in town was Yamaha's OEM battery. This spring/early summer, I wound up buying 2....yes two, on 2 separate occasions so I can have a true 100 mile capable ebike using High power. Not Eco or Eco+.....I can ride my Fatboy if I want to ride like that.

Going price for the 500wh OEM batteries are around 967, so you can figure the math on this one.....the 745wh battery is a bargain when looked from that angle.

Below is the Full FatSix on my near 100 mile run from homebase, the western side of New Jersey near the Delaware River, to Mantoloking, NJ, at the Atlantic Ocean, done in July this year. In the two Ortlieb E-mate rear panniers are my two 500wh batteries while my original 400wh battery is providing power.

These Ortliebs are made specifically to hold a Bosch, Yamaha, Shimano or similar sized external battery; one per bag.
 

Attachments

Ebiker01

Well-Known Member
Are you sure this is correct?
Your bike Nitro has 48V, 12.6 Ah battery.
At 15%... it has 1.89 Ah
At 90%... it has 11.34 Ah

11.34 - 1.89 = 9.45 Ah

using your Luna charger at 5A, it takes ~ 1 hour 51 minutes to go from 15% to 90%.

Please share correct and factual kind of information!
[/QUOT







Wrong assumption Ravi. I did it by assuming it would take a lot less , no calculations.





1hr. 51min it’s still a looooong time for a full charge.

May need that GRIN charger for 10amps.

In your opinion using it at 7 or 10amps would that damage the cells really bad in short term ?

Would you use it from 10% -full at 10amps or only from 30-40% to full ?
 

bob armani

Well-Known Member
What did they write in reply to me?

"Zu ihrer information nochmals die gesendente Nachricht an die Ebike Vision GmbH"

I know the Germans like to think they are a technical, sparing of words people, but I don't believe I got the answer I was looking for.

To Ebike01: Well, you have to go with what is out there and up to now, the only game in town was Yamaha's OEM battery. This spring/early summer, I wound up buying 2....yes two, on 2 separate occasions so I can have a true 100 mile capable ebike using High power. Not Eco or Eco+.....I can ride my Fatboy if I want to ride like that.

Going price for the 500wh OEM batteries are around 967, so you can figure the math on this one.....the 745wh battery is a bargain when looked from that angle.

Below is the Full FatSix on my near 100 mile run from homebase, the western side of New Jersey near the Delaware River, to Mantoloking, NJ, at the Atlantic Ocean, done in July this year. In the two Ortlieb E-mate rear panniers are my two 500wh batteries while my original 400wh battery is providing power.

These Ortliebs are made specifically to hold a Bosch, Yamaha, Shimano or similar sized external battery; one per bag.
"the 745wh battery is a bargain when looked at from that angle."=I think there will be quite a few members interested in this battery (including me). Please keep us all in the loop as to availability and the answers to your well thought out questions. No more ECO mode for me with this battery.😊
 
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Ebiker01

Well-Known Member
What did they write in reply to me?

"Zu ihrer information nochmals die gesendente Nachricht an die Ebike Vision GmbH"

I know the Germans like to think they are a technical, sparing of words people, but I don't believe I got the answer I was looking for.

To Ebike01: Well, you have to go with what is out there and up to now, the only game in town was Yamaha's OEM battery. This spring/early summer, I wound up buying 2....yes two, on 2 separate occasions so I can have a true 100 mile capable ebike using High power. Not Eco or Eco+.....I can ride my Fatboy if I want to ride like that.

Going price for the 500wh OEM batteries are around 967, so you can figure the math on this one.....the 745wh battery is a bargain when looked from that angle.

Below is the Full FatSix on my near 100 mile run from homebase, the western side of New Jersey near the Delaware River, to Mantoloking, NJ, at the Atlantic Ocean, done in July this year. In the two Ortlieb E-mate rear panniers are my two 500wh batteries while my original 400wh battery is providing power.

These Ortliebs are made specifically to hold a Bosch, Yamaha, Shimano or similar sized external battery; one per bag.

I got this new charger - it’s a Luna cycles and at 5amps in 35-40min. It gets 20-30%.
Is okay , much better and faster then a 2amps,
sure is easier to carry a spare.

But it made me discover the Grin Satiator, now carrying that one and charging at 7amps may be better then carrying a spare.
As long as there is a coffee stop or place to charge.
From what I’ve read it’s safe to charge even at 7-8amps.

So, carry a spare or a Grin ?
 

bob armani

Well-Known Member
I got this new charger - it’s a Luna cycles and at 5amps in 35-40min. It gets 20-30%.
Is okay , much better and faster then a 2amps,
sure is easier to carry a spare.

But it made me discover the Grin Satiator, now carrying that one and charging at 7amps may be better then carrying a spare.
As long as there is a coffee stop or place to charge.
From what I’ve read it’s safe to charge even at 7-8amps.

So, carry a spare or a Grin ?
FYI- I was told by an electrical engineer that the 2amp charger with these batteries is just better overall for battery health and longevity of the cells.
That being said, I was a bit hesitant to move to a faster charger like you have. Perhaps I have been mis-informed or there are just mixed opinions?
 

Ebiker01

Well-Known Member
FYI- I was told by an electrical engineer that the 2amp charger with these batteries is just better overall for battery health and longevity of the cells.
That being said, I was a bit hesitant to move to a faster charger like you have. Perhaps I have been mis-informed or there are just mixed opinions?

I read and did some research. But a few threads here on ebreview made me believe in fast charging b/c is backed by science and data and also members more experienced then me are doing it(Charging at 5amps or higher).
Most imp. I keep the battery warm ! I have a neoprene cover as soon as it gets below 70.
Cold or even chill temps are not healthy for the cell chemical ingredients and reactions.

On the below thread, if you read the comment by MarkF , the data presented gives additional assurance that it can be safely done.
I would say, as long as the battery is from a reputable Builder !

 
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bob armani

Well-Known Member

Well, a brand new 500Wh Yamaha battery is almost 800 euros. Keeping the proportion per Wh, a 745Wh would be almost 1200 euros.
At least for Yamaha, it makes some financial sense. For Bosch or other vendors.. I don't know, it might not.

The main problem here is actually not the price but the ability to extend the range of your trips without carrying an additional battery.
I mean, even if it would be cheaper to buy a second OEM battery, you still have to carry it in your backpack or in some kind of rack - neither solution is perfect.
OEM's don't sell you a similar solution - Yamaha stopped at 600Wh and Bosch only launched the 625Wh battery. Who knows when in the future they will launch a 745Wh battery?

And let's be honest, are the new 600/625Wh batteries compatible with older systems like the ones E-bike vision sell?
FYI to all-Your link you posted goes directly to the Amazon UK site. For anyone in the US, if you have a US based Amazon account, you should be able to login to the UK site and order items that will also carry the same Amazon delivery guarantees. I have also verified this info with Amazon UK reps via chat.
 

bob armani

Well-Known Member
What did they write in reply to me?

"Zu ihrer information nochmals die gesendente Nachricht an die Ebike Vision GmbH"

I know the Germans like to think they are a technical, sparing of words people, but I don't believe I got the answer I was looking for.

To Ebike01: Well, you have to go with what is out there and up to now, the only game in town was Yamaha's OEM battery. This spring/early summer, I wound up buying 2....yes two, on 2 separate occasions so I can have a true 100 mile capable ebike using High power. Not Eco or Eco+.....I can ride my Fatboy if I want to ride like that.

Going price for the 500wh OEM batteries are around 967, so you can figure the math on this one.....the 745wh battery is a bargain when looked from that angle.

Below is the Full FatSix on my near 100 mile run from homebase, the western side of New Jersey near the Delaware River, to Mantoloking, NJ, at the Atlantic Ocean, done in July this year. In the two Ortlieb E-mate rear panniers are my two 500wh batteries while my original 400wh battery is providing power.

These Ortliebs are made specifically to hold a Bosch, Yamaha, Shimano or similar sized external battery; one per bag.
That is some serious riding! I ride Eco on a Haibike 10.0 Yamaha most of the time with plenty of spare battery power after a 30 mile ride. Riding in high power on a FatSix must change the whole riding experience entirely. Nice setup dude!
 

bob armani

Well-Known Member
I sent them an e-mail with the following questions, will also reply here when (if) they do:

1) Is the increased capacity (ie. 745Wh) only due to the increased battery size or due to a different battery technology than the one used in OEM batteries?
2) Is this battery going to age the same way an OEM battery does? Ie. after let's say 300 identical charging cycles, will the 745Wh battery decrease its maximum capacity with the same percentage as the 500Wh OEM battery?
3) How is the new battery size handled by the motor ECU? Will the correct battery percentage be displayed on the display or will this value be out of sync?
4) Does the battery itself have a display where it shows how much more current does it have? What is the display unit? On a Yamaha OEM battery the display unit is 25% (ie. there are 4 bars)
5) Did you do some real world tests with these new 745 Wh batteries? Do they offer at least 40% more range?

I'm interested of course, 745Wh would be an ebiker's dream - typically, 500Wh is more than enough BUT you do have to drive on ECO most of the time in order to be sure you finish a 70-80 Km ride with 1800m ground difference without depleting the battery.

500g more for 50% more capacity virtually means 45-50% more range in theory - you don't get to see that much range difference when you add minimal weight. I, for instance, don't see any range difference when I add 2Kg on my haibike fullnine 8.0
My question would be if this company would be willing to ship via air as HAZMAT DG? Most of the EU companies I have communicated with all say "no" due to specific regulations.