915miles in 45days = 32charge cycles

kermit_xc

Member
I just checked at the shop - my Base Turbo has 32 charge cycles after 900 miles in 45 days.

I have 2 chargers between the office and home and depending on the wind, my 21.5mile commute (one way) leaves me with 10%-40% on full Turbo - I don't bother with ECO unless it forces me at below 20% charge (happened 3 times only)

So other than the facts - I have a question, if my battery degrades before the 2 year warranty and the charge cycles are greater than 300 ... will I get a free battery replacement or am I looking at a $999 expense?
 

pxpaulx

Well-Known Member
is 300 somewhere in the specialized documentation? Most batteries seem to have a much higher rating before noticeably degradation is supposed to take place.
 

Allan47.7339

Active Member
I've ordered a Turbo SC battery for my year and half old Turbo S. I have about a 20 mile commute and depending on weather and wind direction I end the commute with about 20-30% battery. I ride mostly at 40eco with a few places at full power. I'm hoping the larger capacity will allow a faster ride and more margin at the ends of the rides. I've had one warranty issue where they repaired the battery and I am at about 100 cycles.
 

John Dombrowski

Active Member
300 is in the documentation, but that is full charge cycles (0-100-0)

Doug,
We never let our battery's get below 40-50% before charging. Lot of times I still charge at 60-70%. I always like to have a full battery before riding the next day. How does this work against "charge cycles"?
 

Douglas Ruby

Well-Known Member
I suspect that before the end of the summer I will also order the SC battery for my base Turbo. I do NOT do a daily commute so I am not highly motivated to stay in full TURBO, but I do like ECO60-70. I have around 500 miles on my Turbo since Nov. 21 (winter Massachusetts riding). Max range at ECO40 is about 50 miles. At that level, I am about equal to my fit 36 year old daughter on her standard Trek 1000. With the big battery, I'd like to have a 50 mile range at ECO60-70 and 35+ miles at full Turbo.
 

Douglas Ruby

Well-Known Member
Doug,
We never let our battery's get below 40-50% before charging. Lot of times I still charge at 60-70%. I always like to have a full battery before riding the next day. How does this work against "charge cycles"?

John, I am not sure. I am no expert but have read some articles both here and online. I think that the relationship is not linear. That is if you use 50% battery capacity (say 70% to 20% back to 70%), you more than double the life of the battery. Perhaps we can get an expert to chime in. I always charge back to 98-100% and rarely go below 20% (except for twice down to around 15%). I have not counted my charging cycles. Also, I don't know how the diagnostic software counts the number of charging cycles.
 

John Dombrowski

Active Member
John, I am not sure. I am no expert but have read some articles both here and online. I think that the relationship is not linear. That is if you use 50% battery capacity (say 70% to 20% back to 70%), you more than double the life of the battery. Perhaps we can get an expert to chime in. I always charge back to 98-100% and rarely go below 20% (except for twice down to around 15%). I have not counted my charging cycles. Also, I don't know how the diagnostic software counts the number of charging cycles.

Well what I do is always charge fully for the next days ride and when i get back it may only be down to 60 or 70% and I charge fully again for the next day. In other words, I fully charge after every ride no matter how low it gets. So I hope each of these charges don't count against a single charge cycle.
 

kermit_xc

Member
I've ordered a Turbo SC battery for my year and half old Turbo S. I have about a 20 mile commute and depending on weather and wind direction I end the commute with about 20-30% battery. I ride mostly at 40eco with a few places at full power. I'm hoping the larger capacity will allow a faster ride and more margin at the ends of the rides. I've had one warranty issue where they repaired the battery and I am at about 100 cycles.

wow ... I suppose the Turbo S motor is that much stronger. I was wondering if I could get a similar range out of the S

What kind of climbing of you have on that 20mile route?
 

kermit_xc

Member
Doug,
We never let our battery's get below 40-50% before charging. Lot of times I still charge at 60-70%. I always like to have a full battery before riding the next day. How does this work against "charge cycles"?

Charge your battery everytime you get a chance, try not dropping below 20% and don't charge in extreme temperatures ... and enjoy the ride
 

Allan47.7339

Active Member
The 2014 Turbo S has a 250 watt motor but I am not sure if it's the same as the current Turbo 250 watt motor. My commute is fairly flat only about 700 feet elevation gain each way but I have a lot more rider mass than you do. I ride at about a 15-16 mph pace on a road bike on the flat. I've also wondered if the battery charger and software actually charge a true 100% or if they have re-rated the gauge in software to prolong battery life.
 

pxpaulx

Well-Known Member
Doug,
We never let our battery's get below 40-50% before charging. Lot of times I still charge at 60-70%. I always like to have a full battery before riding the next day. How does this work against "charge cycles"?

Generally speaking when the manufacturers are referring to charge cycles, they mean 100% of capacity = 1 charge cycle. If you charge at 50% every time, that would be half a charge. Douglas's comment about charging within the middle range of the full capacity of a battery can keep it healthier even longer, though this is difficult to do without either monitoring it manually or having a sophisticated BMS setup, which is usually done by the diy crowd if anyone.
 

John Dombrowski

Active Member
Generally speaking when the manufacturers are referring to charge cycles, they mean 100% of capacity = 1 charge cycle. If you charge at 50% every time, that would be half a charge. Douglas's comment about charging within the middle range of the full capacity of a battery can keep it healthier even longer, though this is difficult to do without either monitoring it manually or having a sophisticated BMS setup, which is usually done by the diy crowd if anyone.

OK, good to know because I can't even see myself getting to 300 full charge cycles before its time to get something new. I am a techy geek in my profession so I am always getting the latest and greatest when things come out. I sometimes wish I never got into this profession.... :)
 

pxpaulx

Well-Known Member
OK, good to know because I can't even see myself getting to 300 full charge cycles before its time to get something new. I am a techy geek in my profession so I am always getting the latest and greatest when things come out. I sometimes wish I never got into this profession.... :)

Sadly that sounds much, MUCH too familiar :)
 

JoePah

Well-Known Member
Honestly dont think they will count the charge cycles that carefully.. If the battery fails (not degrades) within the warranty period, they will either pro rate the battery replacement or just give you a new one.. I just received a new battery when the old one failed within 6 months.
 

Cameron Newland

Well-Known Member
Well what I do is always charge fully for the next days ride and when i get back it may only be down to 60 or 70% and I charge fully again for the next day. In other words, I fully charge after every ride no matter how low it gets. So I hope each of these charges don't count against a single charge cycle.

Just FYI, the way you're charging your battery is precisely the best way to reduce your battery's cycle life.

Until a year ago, the best-practices solution to increasing cycle life was to charge to 80% and to try to stay above 20% charge while riding. That's how the first-generation Chevrolet Volt battery has managed to have such a long life (some guys have put 300,000 miles on their original Volt battery without needing a replacement). The Chevrolet engineers ensured that Volt owners couldn't use the top 20% or the bottom 20% of the battery, which reduced all-electric range to 40 miles (whereas it could've been ~60 miles), but increasing cycle life by more than 100%.

Justin at Grin Tech in Canada, who is the ebike world's #1 expert on batteries and motors, has since discovered in his testing that you can indeed discharge your lithium battery below 20% without meaningfully decreasing cycle life, and that the important thing is to charge to 80%, so now it's thought to be safe to fully discharge your battery as long as you don't fully charge it, and you'll still get 1000+ full recharge cycles (though the number of cycles still depends on the brand/model of cell, naturally). Obviously, if you fully discharge your battery, you'll want to recharge it immediately, because lithium batteries don't store well at low voltage, and can rapidly deteriorate if left too long in a completely discharged state.

If I were you, I'd charge the battery to 80%. That's the best way to prolong the cycle life of your battery.
 

John Dombrowski

Active Member
Just FYI, the way you're charging your battery is precisely the best way to reduce your battery's cycle life.

Until a year ago, the best-practices solution to increasing cycle life was to charge to 80% and to try to stay above 20% charge while riding. That's how the first-generation Chevrolet Volt battery has managed to have such a long life (some guys have put 300,000 miles on their original Volt battery without needing a replacement). The Chevrolet engineers ensured that Volt owners couldn't use the top 20% or the bottom 20% of the battery, which reduced all-electric range to 40 miles (whereas it could've been ~60 miles), but increasing cycle life by more than 100%.

Justin at Grin Tech in Canada, who is the ebike world's #1 expert on batteries and motors, has since discovered in his testing that you can indeed discharge your lithium battery below 20% without meaningfully decreasing cycle life, and that the important thing is to charge to 80%, so now it's thought to be safe to fully discharge your battery as long as you don't fully charge it, and you'll still get 1000+ full recharge cycles (though the number of cycles still depends on the brand/model of cell, naturally). Obviously, if you fully discharge your battery, you'll want to recharge it immediately, because lithium batteries don't store well at low voltage, and can rapidly deteriorate if left too long in a completely discharged state.

If I were you, I'd charge the battery to 80%. That's the best way to prolong the cycle life of your battery.

I don't want to have to babysit my charging. I want to just put it on the charger and let it go until I can get back to it and disconnect the charger.
I don't think I will ever get to the point of charging it enough times to make the battery go bad before I buy something new. I don't plan on keeping my bikes for ever. The more miles on a charge the better for me.
 

Marko

Active Member
I have used my battery daily down to about 70% and then charge to 100%. After over 100 cycles there has not been a decrease in the battery health (according to the diagnostic software). I am with JD, I dont want to have to monitor the charging.
 

John Dombrowski

Active Member
I have used my battery daily down to about 70% and then charge to 100%. After over 100 cycles there has not been a decrease in the battery health (according to the diagnostic software). I am with JD, I dont want to have to monitor the charging.

Exactly. Why would anyone not want to charge a battery to 100%? Everything I have owned my whole life that is rechargeable I have always charged all the way.