A comparison between the Limited and the 700

Limeybastard

Member
Region
USA
City
Florida Unfortunately.
Yes, although they are only selling the current generation unless you buy a used or returned one. Yes, in all new models of the 700 going back well over a month, the kickstand is mounted toward the rear. I received mine over a month ago, and the kickstand is mounted to the rear. I had posted some pictures of the XR and ST in both colors with the rear mounted kickstands in another thread here a while back.
That damn kick stand , I loosened the hex bolt and panicked about getting that bolt back in to the item inside the stand that it threads to, luckily some scotch tape helped retain the inner part allowing me to line it up and tighten it down again. 😅
Does your revision include the sexy Ride1Up front emblem ? Before they were painted on I think.
 

GenXrider

Well-Known Member
That damn kick stand , I loosened the hex bolt and panicked about getting that bolt back in to the item inside the stand that it threads to, luckily some scotch tape helped retain the inner part allowing me to line it up and tighten it down again. 😅
Does your revision include the sexy Ride1Up front emblem ? Before they were painted on I think.
The LMT'D' being sold on the site now says it now has a cadence sensor. Kevin had said that was coming, at least until next year.
 
I just want to add to my initial review because I have recently swapped out the controller for a newer, power based controller from R1U - same as they use in the current 700 series. I've put about 30 miles on it so far. Thoughts are stream of consciousness.

I bought the controller from R1U for two reasons - hoping I would not have to cut/splice any plugs and because I used a friends new 700 briefly and felt the pedaling assist was much improved. They charged me $65 shipping included - a reasonable price. It was plug and play - no cutting or splicing was necessary. Its also the same size so it fits in the same space inside the frame, below the battery.

I did not replace the display - my friend's display looks exactly like mine. I did not see what her top speed allows - on my June 2020 display, the maximum speed setting allowed is 25 mph, not 28.

The throttle no longer has any level between 0 and 100%. Before the new controller, I could rest my thumb on the body of the throttle and rotate my thumb downwards and finesse the throttle to get various power outputs/speeds. Now, despite my best efforts, its either 0 watts or 750 watts - nothing in between is available.

Also, re: throttle - with the original controller I would get 999 watts when maxed out (anytime I had at least 48 volts on the battery). Now, its only 750 watts. Its also no where near as strong acceleration initially. Also, when in motion and pedaling, it takes a full one thousand one, one thousand two count for the throttle to kick in. This sucks - the old controller worked with maybe a half second delay.

I much prefer the original controller when it comes to the throttle. Let me say it again - I MUCH prefer the throttle with the original controller.

Now for some positive commentary. I bought the new controller because I was very tired of the speed based original controller (read my original post in this thread if you want to know what I'm talking about). Basically, each PAS level equaled a set speed. Very annoying when trying to ride with anyone else - I could not match their speed. The new controller allows me to vary my speed while in the same PAS level because it does not cut the power so dramatically once I hit a set speed. So it keeps giving me 125 watts whether I'm accelerating from a stop or I've reached whatever speed 125 watts gets me too - if I want to go faster, my pedal power adds to the motors output and I can go faster. Its not as good as the torque sensor on my Limited (for instance, on that bike I have three levels and level 1 can take me from 3 or 4 mph to about 15 mph), but my speed can vary about 4-5 mph while in the same PAS. I like this change a lot.

I have dropped from 9 to 5 PAS levels. I've set the power levels at 7%, 15%, 32%, 64% and 99%. I tried a little higher starting value of either 10% or 12%, but it would have me going at least 10 mph minimum - too fast for sidewalks or paths or around walkers. So I backed the level 1 PAS down a bit and prefer it. BTW, when I initially programmed it, I started at 10% and made each level 1.5X of the prior level. That did not seem to give me enough change in speed from one level to the next - if I went down a slope the started up the next, I would have to bump the PAS up two levels. Starting at 7%, I have roughly doubled the power with each setting. This does not double my speed, but gives a noticeable change in speed - hill descents/climbs now take one bump in the PAS.

I have each and every PAS from 0-5 set for 22 amps - I want the throttle active all the time, and I want boost when I want it.

I also tried 7 PAS levels initially, but did not feel it works as well as 5 PAS levels. My Limited works pretty well with 3 PAS levels because of the torque sensor, but I don't think I will try to use 3 PAS levels on the 700 - I think it would leave big gaps in speeds from one level to the next.

Overall, its been a mixed bag. I really, really don't care for the new throttle while the PAS levels are a fairly good improvement. It feels a lot more like riding a regular bicycle, and if I want to put some effort into it, it rewards me with extra speed instead of just reducing the power like the original controller used to do. I no longer get as much acceleration or maximum power from the motor whether by throttle or using PAS - I know the motor is capable of more, but is being held back by the new controller. I surmise that R1U has backed off on the power to increase longevity and reduce possible problems from folks who max the throttle for too long. I am going to keep the new controller in there because it rides more like a bike than an electric scooter, but I won't stop wishing that I had my old maximum power and throttle still.
 

GenXrider

Well-Known Member
Another note -

AtomicSans put up a lengthy review recently. https://electricbikereview.com/foru...nth-700-mile-ride1up-series-700-review.47166/

Her comments on the throttle are now understandable to me. Its not the throttle, its the controller that made her throttle all or nothing.
That person was referring to how touchy the throttle is and that it's hard to regulate for that reason, and others have said that also. I don't remember if I responded to that comment. But there is a technique to help regulate, but I see you already mentioned it.

Also, re: throttle - with the original controller I would get 999 watts when maxed out (anytime I had at least 48 volts on the battery). Now, its only 750 watts.

Yeah, I think with a 100% charge, it gets up to 850 watts or so, but I almost never charge my batter over 80%. Of course, I barely use my throttle since I bought it to use as a bicycle for exercise, but I do realize throttles a big thing to a lot of people.

The throttle no longer has any level between 0 and 100%. Before the new controller, I could rest my thumb on the body of the throttle and rotate my thumb downwards and finesse the throttle to get various power outputs/speeds. Now, despite my best efforts, its either 0 watts or 750 watts - nothing in between is available.

I have the 2021 model 700 XR and responded about it earlier in the thread. However, as long as you aren't pedaling, you most certainly can find ranges between the minimum and maximum, but it's not the easiest thing to regulate. But if you are pedaling, then any slight application of the throttle applies full throttle. Al Hicks mentioned that other bikes like these operate the same way - applying full throttle when you are pedaling. Try stopping pedaling for a few seconds, then apply slight throttle. If it still applies full power, then yours is different than mine.

I have each and every PAS from 0-5 set for 22 amps - I want the throttle active all the time, and I want boost when I want it.

Now that is different than mine. My 2021 700 XR goes to 18 amps maximum, and not only that, but if you change any of the amp settings, then exit out an toggle the assist level and go back in, all of the amp settings revert back to the default.

I was using 9 PAS levels (0-9) early last year, then I switch to 7 levels so I didn't have to toggle levels quite as much, with a bigger jump between levels. And I do the vast majority of my riding in levels 0-3 (of the 0-7 range), only hitting 4 or higher climbing bigger hills.

Thanks for the update with your new controller.
 
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I want to thank GenX for his remarks. I am in FL at the moment and have had a chance to ride a bit more. After reading his comments, I paid attention to the difference between throttle without pedaling, and throttle with pedaling.

It turns out that my throttle can vary the amount of wattage sent to the motor, but only if I am not pedaling. Once I pedal, any use of the throttle goes to max power. On a fully charged battery, I would see somewhere around 830 watts. It may have been 850 watts, but the polarized sunglasses, bright Florida sun and the dim screen make it hard to see the screen at a glance.

All of my PAS levels stay at 22 amps, even after backing out of the programming mode or turning the bike off.

I still like my settings (PAS = 0-5, percentage amount for each PAS level), except for PAS 1. I backed it down to 6%. It lets me ride about 7-8 mph. Its very useful. At 7% I would be going a mile or two faster in level 1 - a little fast if I am near walkers. Frankly, it varies between 32 and 48 watts in level 1 - it is almost imperceptible and doesn't make the bike go much.

I still get a 2 second delay from the time I press the throttle until I get the power from the motor if I am not pedaling. Most frustrating. However, if I am pedaling, the throttle activates pretty quickly.

In PAS level 5, I did see 999 watts. So at least I still get maximum power in the right circumstance. Level 5 is set for 22 amps and 99% output.

Overall its a good improvement. After riding it more I am finding the the only two real drawbacks are the on/off throttle when pedaling and the very long delay from throttle activation to power delivery when not pedaling.
 
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GenXrider

Well-Known Member
It looks Ride1Up is going to change how the throttle works when using PAS in the near future.
Kevin from Ride1Up posted on Facebook a short time ago:

"It's variable unless your PAS is already engaged. If PAS/motor is already engaged,
on current generations, it will act as a boost. This comment is only valid for a couple more months"
 

haneyrm

New Member
Region
USA
City
Boca Grande, FL
It looks Ride1Up is going to change how the throttle works when using PAS in the near future.
Kevin from Ride1Up posted on Facebook a short time ago:

"It's variable unless your PAS is already engaged. If PAS/motor is already engaged,
on current generations, it will act as a boost. This comment is only valid for a couple more months"
I’m glad they are fixing this issue. Hopefully they can offer some type of fix for current owners. The throttle is annoying and feels very unrefined. I also have a RadRunner and the throttle is much better.
 

Slaphappygamer

Active Member
Region
USA
City
Aptos
I’m glad they are fixing this issue. Hopefully they can offer some type of fix for current owners. The throttle is annoying and feels very unrefined. I also have a RadRunner and the throttle is much better.
I bought a hafl twist throttle (cheapest one from Aliexpress), similar to the radrunner has. It works just like the radrunners throttle, It's the exact same. My wife has the radrunner plus. The throttle is now variable. I can roll at 9MPH, if I like.
 

GenXrider

Well-Known Member
The physical throttle control itself that comes with the 700 is already variable. But just don't use PAS and pedal while using throttle to take advantage of the variable throttle.
 

haneyrm

New Member
Region
USA
City
Boca Grande, FL
I bought a hafl twist throttle (cheapest one from Aliexpress), similar to the radrunner has. It works just like the radrunners throttle, It's the exact same. My wife has the radrunner plus. The throttle is now variable. I can roll at 9MPH, if I like.
Thanks for the reply. Did the twist throttle have 3 pin Bafang connector? I’m buying a twist throttle and want to make sure I get the right connector.
 

haneyrm

New Member
Region
USA
City
Boca Grande, FL
The physical throttle control itself that comes with the 700 is already variable. But just don't use PAS and pedal while using throttle to take advantage of the variable throttle.
This is old news. It should work as a variable throttle regardless of PAS setting and whether or not you’re pedaling. Ride1Up obviously agrees or they wouldn’t be fixing this issue.
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
This is old news. It should work as a variable throttle regardless of PAS setting and whether or not you’re pedaling. Ride1Up obviously agrees or they wouldn’t be fixing this issue.
On the bold, this if we were living in a perfect world. Fact is we aren't, and MANY bikes operate the way @GenXrider describes. If you can talk R1U into changing that, good for you, but he didn't deserve your snarky reply. It remains to be seen that they are even able to do that. Lot's of bike manf's making claims that are more like wishful thinking. Fingers crossed for you. Let us know when you've test driven the new controller and it works the way you want it to. Best of luck!
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
Kevin from Ride1Up edited his previous post in the FB group and said there is no change pending on how this operates.
Sounds like he took a minute to educate himself a bit.
 

Slaphappygamer

Active Member
Region
USA
City
Aptos
Thanks for the reply. Did the twist throttle have 3 pin Bafang connector? I’m buying a twist throttle and want to make sure I get the right connector.
Mine is a 3 pin connection. You may want to swap your throttle with your roadrunner to test. Yours should be the same 3 pin connector. Just park the bikes by each other and try it out. I would do that before dismantling the handlebars.

25542FE8-E716-46BB-B8A9-EE4E32490205.jpeg


I understand what @GenXrider says about the throttle (and I don’t doubt them), but on my 700xr, the thumb throttle didn’t work like that. I’d be in PAS 0 and the throttle would be just an on/off switch. I guess, maybe, it depends on when you bought the bike. I suppose, with shipping issues, some manufacturers would use whatever they had available at the time. Still a great bike!
 

haneyrm

New Member
Region
USA
City
Boca Grande, FL
Thanks for the pic. I really like the bike but the throttle could be better.

It’s a shame that Ride1Up is not going to address this. My low budget RadRunner throttle is variable regardless of PAS level, pedaling, etc. It’s really nice to give the bike slight throttle while pedaling up hills just to maintain speed. I pedal continuously and the light switch throttle is a bummer.
 

Slaphappygamer

Active Member
Region
USA
City
Aptos
You can easier and cheaply replace it. This is the one that I bought.


The picture I shared is the connection above the battery. You can easily trace the wire from your existing throttle cable through the grommet and dig out the connector to install this one.

Note: This new throttle has a tad shorted cable. This means that the water proof connector (as pictured above) will be exposed.

Out of my own curiosity, I reconnected my original throttle and I’m able to “scale” the voltage to the motor. That is to say, that the original throttle is variable. I swear it didn’t act like this before, but maybe I wasn’t paying too close attention to it. Of course this means, that even if you do change your throttle, it still may not be variable.

Other note:) when I installed the new throttle, on the right side, I realized that my trigger shifter butts right up against the half twist throttle. Everything still shifts well. I just need to pull the trigger against the throttle. This half twist throttle will be thicker and you’d have to move the shifter as close to the throttle as you can.

798B0415-3960-4B6B-BBE9-E502BE4DC114.jpeg
 
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haneyrm

New Member
Region
USA
City
Boca Grande, FL
Thanks again. I just ordered the right side half throttle from your link.
I moved the thumb throttle to the right side of the bar this weekend. It’s a very tight squeeze so the twist should definitely help free up some space. I just prefer it on the right.